Water Guzzlers

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Water Guzzlers

Postby ChrisJHC » Wed 08 Aug, 2018 11:04 pm

I’ve noticed a trend developing over the last few years for some people to really go through their water when in the bush.
I get to the stage where I’m ready to take a few mouthfuls and they’ve already guzzled half their water and starting to look for a refill.

I think it’s a corollary of the “gym generation” where they are trained to have a big drink every 15-20 minutes or they might die. These are the people that can’t walk around the block without carrying a water bottle. While that might be fine when you’re only exercising for an hour and then have unlimited water on tap, it’s not really a viable plan when you’re limited in what you can carry.

Of course, we all know that we have to drink enough to keep our pee the right colour, but I’ve seen people go overboard. And no, I’m not suggesting we go back to the old “water discipline” days but there has to be a balance.

Thoughts?
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Bill P » Wed 08 Aug, 2018 11:30 pm

Yep its a thing Chris.

If youre only going out for a couple of hours in moderate weather, then there's no need to constantly sip a bottle.

I understand more people have died in marathons from hyponatremia than via dehydration.

Hyponatemia has also been as issue when people go to very humid areas, eg Kokoda, and experience their perspiration clinging onto their clothes or skin, and mistakenly believe they are dehydrating.

Simplest thing is to check your urine colour...
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby ribuck » Wed 08 Aug, 2018 11:38 pm

Most marathon winners don't drink at all during the race.

For bushwalking, just be aware that it takes time to replace a deficit. If you've built up a deficit of a litre during the day, you can't just guzzle a litre when you arrive at camp, as you'll pee much of it out. You need to drink that litre over a couple of hours.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 8:23 am

I read somewhere that the biggest concern (water related) for the organisers of the recent blue mtns ultra trail run was competitiors drinking too much water!

Losing salt and drinking excessive water is not a good mix. Im sure the pros would have been fine but the amateur runners are likely guzzling and causing themselves issues.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby GPSGuided » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 8:42 am

Just move it!
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby LachlanB » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 9:22 am

GPSGuided wrote:Swish and spit is the latest trend.

https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition- ... rts-drink/


Whatever will they think of next? :shock:
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby michael_p » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 10:25 am

Nothing like the power of advertising to convince people to do something they really don't need to do. They have to sell more bottled water, so they have to convince people that they will die while exercising if they don't create land fill...sorry, I mean guzzle expensive bottles of water.

Many years ago I was taught by an elderly bushwalking friend to take a sip of water, swish the water around in your mouth, swallow a bit then swish the rest around for a few seconds then swallow the remainder. To be honest I have found this works for me, YMMV of course. Maybe there is something to the swish and spit idea, you see footballers doing this on the sporting field all the time.

ribuck wrote:For bushwalking, just be aware that it takes time to replace a deficit. If you've built up a deficit of a litre during the day, you can't just guzzle a litre when you arrive at camp, as you'll pee much of it out. You need to drink that litre over a couple of hours.

Yep, do this after every walk. Normally over a longer time frame of about 3 hours and the amount of fluid I drink depends on how I feel based on the conditions I walked in.

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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby crollsurf » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 10:37 am

Getting over-excited the night before and drinking too much grog doesn't help. Also making sure you are properly hydrated before walking helps.
I do carry an extra 500ml in case I become geographically challenged and have run out from time to time but more often, I'm dumping water once I know I'm not going to get lost.

I definitely ration my water so if I have say 1 litre to travel 12klm, I'll want to have 500ml left after the first 6klm.

But sure, lots of people think they need to drink way more than they need to.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Lamont » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 5:18 pm

Ha ha -keep off the turps crollsurf!
And I concur about camelling up before walking most heartily!
A half litre before walking (or one) and I seem pretty well balanced to about 400-500 mls per hour. Can't hold any more than that, walking at a reasonable pace.
After about 3 hours need a rest (15 mins or a 'wee' bit more) wait -10 mins drink another half(or 1) and back to the cycle. *&%$#! coffee doesn't help too much either if you slug a lot. So a good guzzle of water in the morning after coffee.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby CraigVIC » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 6:42 pm

A long walk is as good a hangover cure as there is. Sweating, hydrating, a bit of reflection; good stuff.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby ChrisJHC » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 6:54 pm

crollsurf wrote:I'm dumping water once I know I'm not going to get lost.


Not sure I could bring myself to dump water until I’m back at my car!
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby GPSGuided » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:15 pm

Lamont wrote:I seem pretty well balanced to about 400-500 mls per hour.

It's long suggested that people should drink around 500ml/hr when exercising above moderate level of intensity. Coming to bushwalking, similar volume has been recommended too. Now, on a day hike of 6-8 hours, I have never carried 3-4L even on warm days. Does anyone carry that much? Pretty serious weight for a daypack.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby ribuck » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 10:30 pm

GPSGuided wrote:, on a day hike of 6-8 hours, I have never carried 3-4L even on warm days. Does anyone carry that much?

For a 6-8hr hike, I would carry 1L in winter, 2L on an average Sydney summer day, and 3L during a hot spell. I've never carried more, except for a dry camp.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby jdeks » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 11:38 pm

Yep amen to all of the above.

The one that really drives me nuts is the whole electrolyte/salts miscomprehension. Whole generation seems to think the moment they start sweating, they need a whole pharmacy to reestablish the equilibrium that the body's been maintaining unaided for hundreds of thousands of years.

I used to spend a lot of time dirt-biking with obese middle-aged men who would insist they needed $5 worth of candypowder in their camelbaks for 3hrs of having an internal combustion engine haul them up and down the hills while they exercised their right wrist and maybe stood up from time to time. Of course they'd smash a dozen beers every night and wake up hung over each morning before they even got on the bike, but "nah mate, ya need yer lecktro-lights for this sort of hard ecksersize"
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Aardvark » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 5:05 am

Now, on a day hike of 6-8 hours, I have never carried 3-4L even on warm days. Does anyone carry that much? Pretty serious weight for a daypack.


I would often relish the thought of carrying only a litre when in NZ or down south. In Queensland it is the norm for us to head out with minimum 2 lt. Three litres on most walks for us because we will usually be out all day. And even then we will drink other water enroute too.
I have carried as much as 6 Lt on throughwalks where no water is enroute and getting it might require 30 to 40 mins detour.
We have often visited places on walks the weekend prior to deposit water. Once on a throughwalk along Main Range for a group of a half dozen, we had to go out the week prior to deposit water and each person on the walk still carried two lts each. It took three of us to carry 10-15lts each for that deposit.

A daywalk with three litres will usually mean we are carrying a 8-10 kg daypack.

I don't regret the conditioning as when we really have to carry a load it is of little concern.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby north-north-west » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 9:17 am

GPSGuided wrote:
Lamont wrote:I seem pretty well balanced to about 400-500 mls per hour.

It's long suggested that people should drink around 500ml/hr when exercising above moderate level of intensity. Coming to bushwalking, similar volume has been recommended too. Now, on a day hike of 6-8 hours, I have never carried 3-4L even on warm days. Does anyone carry that much? Pretty serious weight for a daypack.


Yes. Three litre bladder is standard for me (sometimes four litre) and I can easily go through that on a warm day if I'm not taking it easy. And still end the day thirsty.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby johnw » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 10:29 am

ribuck wrote:
GPSGuided wrote:, on a day hike of 6-8 hours, I have never carried 3-4L even on warm days. Does anyone carry that much?

For a 6-8hr hike, I would carry 1L in winter, 2L on an average Sydney summer day, and 3L during a hot spell. I've never carried more, except for a dry camp.

Similar for me though a little less. Sydney region In winter I never carry more than 1 litre for a day hike. In summer I might take 1.5 or 2 if strenuous. I tend not to walk at all if it gets above about 28 degrees. I've only carried more than 2 litres, maybe 3-4, for an overnight walk with a dry camp. I do carry tablets to treat water if needed (and obviously if there is a source).

About the hyponatremia thing. I usually stay slightly dehydrated, and the only time I've felt the affects of (probably mild) hyponatremia was in one of the marathons I ran. They were particularly generous with the drink stations, one about every 2 km alternating between plain water and gatorade (or whichever brand was the sponsor for that event). It was a warm day so I mistakenly thought it wise to top up at every one on the fly. I actually ran a PB, but by 42km my bladder was about to explode and I was feeling quite nauseous and really full. With the wisdom of hindsight I guess I should have reduced the plain water intake. I eventually felt better but couldn't stop pissing for hours afterwards.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 3:27 pm

johnw wrote:I eventually felt better but couldn't stop pissing for hours afterwards.

At least you are protected from renal stones... :mrgreen:
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Bill P » Sat 11 Aug, 2018 8:53 am

Probably a good idea to stay slightly dehydrated johnnw:

"Exercise-associated hyponatraemia (EAH) is a modern, life-threatening condition first described in 1985 after introduction of guidelines promoting excessive fluid intake during exercise."

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2011/194 ... koda-track
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Orbita_Serenitatem » Tue 14 Aug, 2018 6:37 pm

When I'm cooking vegetables I sprinkle a little pink salt lightly incrementally - same concept goes for the walk - sips of water at intervals from a bottle so I know how much is left. I am surprised though that the rest of my family feel the need to carry litres of water with them all the time... resulting in a cupboard full of expensive water bottles that leak. I'm sticking with using a wide mouth 600ml Staminade bottle when walking, and packing a 2lt platypus if there are no water points between camps. Dehydrated water would fix the weight problem.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Franco » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 11:48 am

I am of the opinion that just as we can habituate our bodies to take more and more food, we can do the same with water (or beer...)
Once you are on double or triple portions, it's hard to go back to single.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby doogs » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 12:41 pm

I drink a lot when walking as I'm prone to over heating. I also recently learnt that your body takes 15 minutes to process 250ml of water so drinking in excess of this can become a pointless exercise.
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Water Guzzlers

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 2:18 pm

Franco wrote:I am of the opinion that just as we can habituate our bodies to take more and more food, we can do the same with water (or beer...)
Once you are on double or triple portions, it's hard to go back to single.

Unfortunately this logic does not follow based on physiological foundation.

The key difference here is that the body can store more and more digested excess food calories in the form of fat (hence the bigger and bigger beer belly) through the various metabolic pathways for longer term storage, the body has no longer term storage mechanism for water. Water gets absorbed and excess is excreted quickly, carrying salt with it. As such, our water consumption can only be within the envelope of our physiological capacity to handle it (both low and high ends) or face potentially deadly consequences.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Hallu » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 9:33 pm

I understand more people have died in marathons from hyponatremia than via dehydration.


Yes I've heard the same thing. They see a bottle of water handed to them and just take it drinking it all as fast as they can.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Franco » Sat 18 Aug, 2018 8:11 am

GPSGuided wrote:
Franco wrote:I am of the opinion that just as we can habituate our bodies to take more and more food, we can do the same with water (or beer...)
Once you are on double or triple portions, it's hard to go back to single.

Unfortunately this logic does not follow based on physiological foundation.

The key difference here is that the body can store more and more digested excess food calories in the form of fat (hence the bigger and bigger beer belly) through the various metabolic pathways for longer term storage, the body has no longer term storage mechanism for water. Water gets absorbed and excess is excreted quickly, carrying salt with it. As such, our water consumption can only be within the envelope of our physiological capacity to handle it (both low and high ends) or face potentially deadly consequences.

I was pointing out how some get to drink huge quantities not that one should nor that it does any good.
It should have been obvious by my comment on eating triple rations, that is also something that some can do not that they should do.
BTW, how do you think the expression "beer gut" came about ?
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Water Guzzlers

Postby GPSGuided » Sat 18 Aug, 2018 10:20 am

Franco, but it is true that one can eat more the more one eats. Stomach do stretch and the digestive system do adapt. Again, the body does not accommodate to water the way it does to food in volume.

Beer gut, it’s all the calories.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby Franco » Sat 18 Aug, 2018 1:16 pm

I think that you are still not getting my point...
The only reason why some can drink ( but shouldn't...) 2 or more litres at once is because they started with half a litres or so and then eventually got there (but should not have...)
My point is that they should not have bothered because just like over eating , over drinking is not a good thing to do.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby GPSGuided » Sat 18 Aug, 2018 2:07 pm

Yes, we are having a disconnect here.


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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby wayno » Sun 19 Aug, 2018 6:10 am

you need up to 500mg of sodium for every litre of water, thats roughly a quarter of a teaspoon of salt... this can prevent hyponatremia on days where you are sweating and drinking a lot, and helps the absorption of the water..
there's another trend of drinking lots of water in the hours before exercising,,, but all that will happen is your body will pass it straight through, you may not realise until after you start exercising when you find you want to pee a lot.
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Re: Water Guzzlers

Postby ChrisJHC » Sun 19 Aug, 2018 9:15 pm

From the Sports Dietitians:
“There is minimal performance benefit to being over-hydrated as drinking excessive amounts of fluid before exercise causes increased urination and feeling bloated.”

https://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/wp- ... -sport.pdf

The whole document is definitely worth a read.
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