Electric cars for Fossil cars

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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Thu 29 Sep, 2016 9:11 pm

Well that took a bit longer than expected. Didn't quite get to 20K but 5K off new is not bad for a second hand Prius C i-Tec with 16 000k on it. Looking forward to trying to average 923km from 36lt. Not quite an EV but its the best I can do currently. Looking forward to a solar powered boot station EV revolution in the near future. But currently grateful I can do a little for the environment because I can.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby GPSGuided » Thu 29 Sep, 2016 11:50 pm

Good on you!
Just move it!
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Fri 30 Sep, 2016 5:57 am

I could have done better than I thought, I had been working on Redbook value. Toyota was saying it's a 30K car so can't go below 21. I see Redbook prices exclude stamp, delivery, and other associated costs. Rather Reebook's price is manufacturers suggested retail. So quite a saving before any other potential savings. And it suits our driving style so I think its very possible. Actually if everyone didn't gun it from the lights, or did 90 instead of 100, the hip pocket and planted would be far better off so easily.
Not sure if the car industry is upon hard times. The manager said predictably unpredictable. Sales of greener cars were steady, enough to make them a viable product to persist with. As we found however, one can buy a new car with economy only 2 or 2.5lt 100 higher for 5K less, new. And if people trade every 4 to 5 then there is no benefit to buying a greener car. And one also has to get it at a price like we did. So again it seems the rule makers are not as interested in global warming than perhaps they should be. A 16k car however does not feel like a 25 to 30K car, Commodoors excluded lol.

The toyota manager also loved Tesla and said Tesla are working on smaller cheaper models. Apparently Tesla are installing their own solar boot stations in the US. And boast one can drive across America for free. A half boot takes 30 minutes, not sure how far that takes you but far enough to the next station. In a car that can go 0 to 100 in 2 seconds, I imagine a 30 minute boot will get you some way. Price however only for the elite. I still dream if Aus said we'll have 4 million of them, but at 15K each, not 170 RRP; than we could put something together for 20 to 25. Innervation hey...jobs and growth this weeks boss says?
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby GTL » Fri 30 Sep, 2016 12:37 pm

Hmm, reminds me of an amusing South Park episode. It's called smug if you're interested; very funny stuff (especially when they smell their own farts). :D
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Mon 03 Oct, 2016 4:10 pm

I won't bang on about this to much, but some early finding with owning a hybrid car. Been asked why did you buy that? Oh..how much is a battery when it dies. (guaranteed for 8 years, 15 years life is not unheard of) And called a greenie 3 times since Friday 2PM after pick up. I would not be surprised if the fear of being labeled for some may have a baring on ones purchase decisions.

This is the out come of a trip from Sth Wst Bris to Nth Wst Bris. About half is motorway, the rest has plenty of hills. I have done this 4 times in the last 4 days. Its been the same each trip except for .1 on the consumption, and couple cents in the costs. My car, a 2.4 diesel turbo would have consumed 3/4 of its 75t tank.
Where as the hybrid has just lost the 1st bar of its 10 bar fuel gauge, 36t tank. Plus also run a 5k trn trip to the grocery shops, and come home from the dealer 25km away.

Sadly, very hard to spot other hybrids on the road.

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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby photohiker » Mon 03 Oct, 2016 4:28 pm

Lookin good there!

What car is your 2.4 diesel turbo?

Sounds like it would consume 56L for 139km? That doesn't sound correct, about 40L/100km? Are you sure it isn't a Ford GTHO :)
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 7:33 am

There is something magical driving down the road silently and for free on battery power. The hybrid is only a little way there, you must get areal kick out of your EV.

My drive is a 2010 Euro4 dirty ol Defender 130. 75Lt does 550km on the highway, bit better at 90. Yes after I typed it I though it did sound a bit high. But fill it up Monday and its basically empty Friday. I do about 60 to 80km a day. I'd like to ditch it but it doubles very well as a work car and a holiday, sometimes a very remote holiday. I see EV are not into towing just yet, neither am I, but 3.5T is often achieved. Oddly enough it's no more economical than the Tdi euro2, or Td5 euro3 models; just cleaner. So just as many litres of diesel being consumed in 2016 as 1990. Well one could almost say 1983, and the Defender is considered as the gutless underpowered econimical 4x4.

Hey the Toyota dealer was also telling me Tesla have/are designing home boot stations. Solar charged storage batteries so it collects during the day, and when you get home plug it in for a full tank in the morning. Not hard to see who is going to be the Microsoft or Apple of electric cars. Sad how Aus led the solar revolution not so long ago. Sad how investing in real estate is about all that interest us here in Aus.

This Hybrid has graphs, competitions, a driving style educator, can tell you how much you are saving or spending, bla,bla, bla. But if you give it a chance and cruise off from the lights, charge it on a long steady braking, then this is where its real economy and green-ness flourishes. One starts to wonder if all the power and performance used to sell current mainstream motor vehicles along with our rush rush rush life, if the modern car has subtle influences. I have discovered driving at 90, cruising off from the lights, and cruising to a stop certainly is a lot more relaxing and less stressful; even in the dirty ol Defender. 99% of the time in the city one only rushes to the next stop anyway, and I'm only 50m behind the winner at the end.
Has me thinking with driverless and electric cars on the way. With speeds being controlled by governments and satellites, and travel spacing distances by the vehicle, take offs and slow downs will be much slower. This will force people into a slowing of life around cars, and hopefully transcend into an unexpected upside for peoples health and well being. However, I guess if they are not driving, they will be busy texting or face booking so perhaps will notice nothing has changed one bit.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 8:23 am

40L/100km does not make sense at all for a modern diesel. Further, is the Defender a comparable class (in size/weight) as your hybrid? Whilst 3.8L/100km is nice on your hybrid, I can get 5-6L/100km with my 2L diesel compact hatch in Sydney if predominately uninterrupted freeway. Out on country freeway, can go below 5.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby photohiker » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 9:10 am

There are a lot of them already texting and facebooking while they drive, a driverless car will improve general safety for all. Because of the choices made, and the chaotic behaviour of normal drivers there will be some difficulty as the driverless cars arrive on our roads.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 11:47 am

I've been quite impressed with the anti-collision function on this current generation of non-driverless cars. They really work and can markedly reduce impact speed if contact is ultimately made, thereby improve the survival rate.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 12:00 pm

Gpsguided, not trying to say a defender is comparable. Moreso the only advancement over the years has been emission control in europe mostly. And if you wind the comon rail
pressure up hard enough performance and economy happen, well supposedly. I will have to do a milage count on mine as yes that is unrealistic. But I know the first defender is as econimical as the last from travelling with them. We all do the same within 1lt of each other basically. Pretty sad for 20+ years and 3 companies motor development.
Its great you can get the milage from your 2lt, but the technology underpinning it is model T ford stuff. Size, weight, and screwing the motor within an inch of its life gets you there. Pretty ordinary excuse for technology really. But great to hear you have made a decision to go small and econimical.

Mr Toyota rang up today, asked if I know of anyone looking for a car. I said give me a hybrid in a commercial and I'll buy. We spoke about Tesla, he was not concerned over them due to their price. Obviously can't recall that first brick phone by motorrola again. 2k for maybe 12-18 months. Then Nokia came along with its much much smaller model at half to one third the cost. Then Apple changed the game for all, all in just 10 15 years pretty much. If I were a traditional car manufacturer even making hybrids, I'd be very concerned.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 3:58 pm

On my 3rd 2.0L diesel compact and they have been getting better and more efficient over the last 10+ years. Considered EVs with the latest round but felt they lacked maturity for a 5 years investment. Otherwise I'm mentally prepared for EVs in 5 years time and hopefully they'll be on the mid commodity curve by then.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 6:32 pm

Yes nothing wrong with that. But for me this little discussion highlights just what our Australian leaders think of global warming, innervation, jobs, growth, and Australia. The reality that EV and more-so hybrid technology is not pushed in much way at all besides a few government fleet purchases says a bit. The Libs are keen to let the market find price and direction, however governments are meant to look 20 30 40 years into the future with all their advisers, meetings, and provide direction. It's clear from the recent election both sides think little about the environment, as both sides said virtually nothing about it.
The little kings from industry and politics will drip feed us technology and BS as they see fit to keep the sales and votes coming in. I guess 116 years from the industrial revolution, 71 from WW2 when consumption of modern life really got going; it is possible we can do something in the next 25 30 years so all is not lost. Just need the politicians to believe the scientist.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 6:51 pm

Asking too much. Our society is somewhat conservative and in a democracy, there's no point just blaming the politicians. They can lead but will get out voted if the electorate can't wake up. So that's the reality. Authoritarian is good if the leader is brilliant, terrible if bad. Democracy just floats in the middle with everyone checked to not go too far out.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 7:03 pm

yeh probably, but we will see who has been asking too much if the scientist are correct. I still believe the money makers control the game, the pollies are too gutless to lay down harder guidelines, and too interested in furthering their own family wealth instead of the countries. The renewable energy industry is full of jobs and growth, but instead boof head and bozo the clowns are interested in the world biggest coal mine being opened.
We too, as humans focus too much on money. I had a no start with this hybrid until I convinced the wife she would save money if she held it for 10 years. I accept there are more resources in making a hybrid, but its also about our own turn over and waste as well. You have to go a long way to find the few who put the enivironment first and money second.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby climberman » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 7:32 pm

http://forums.ski.com.au/xf/threads/the ... st-3130153

a post n another forum that might be of interest.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 5:32 am

climberman, the link works but goes to a log in page. Would you car to have another crack.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby climberman » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 6:24 am

newhue wrote:climberman, the link works but goes to a log in page. Would you car to have another crack.


It was a link to a discussion which included this: http://aussieleaf.tumblr.com/?ref_url=h ... r.min.html
you prolly have to be a ski.com.au member to see the discussion.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 5:55 pm

Ok, yes Mitsubishi make the Overlander in hybrid. Actually there a fair few manufacturers make hybrids, but you would not know it from their marketing. Actually I looked into a Mitsubishi Fusso hybrid truck today. I asked if it came in a size capable of 13 and 20T payloads. I was told 2T, but it's coming! they say. As to an electric one but he had no idea when, what size, or compacity, and didn't even have a 2T hybrid in stock. At least he didn't try and sell me a new model T ford.
You know one would think if one can buy a Prius, Corolla, or Camry from Toyota, a 2x4 hilux ute should be available. Sadly not. I sent Toyota Australia some thoughts last night. Not that they will have much say but I took the opportunity on the back of the new acquisition, so at least they may read it.

Its still amazes me that weather like down SA can happen for a week, and very few are accepting it's most likely GW. Not sure just what proof, or how much has to happen to make a significant change in thinking. But you talk to people, and its like we are all aware of it, its just the white elephant in the room. Change is a funny thing.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby north-north-west » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 6:30 pm

newhue wrote:Its still amazes me that weather like down SA can happen for a week, and very few are accepting it's most likely GW...

No, no, no. Haven't you understood? It's those pesky wind farms, luring the storms and tornadoes in. Never would have happened to a state that stuck with good ol' clean and reliable coal.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 8:45 pm

Indeed....thanks of the good laugh.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 4:35 am

You know the funny thing.....but oh so very very sad is fossil is going to win. Fossil companies happy with easy sales, fossil industries resistant to change, fossil political parties with in-bread houses of culture, all addicted to fossil thinking.
Watching the idiot box last knight I observed an add for the Mitsubishi Outlander, their only hybrid, and not a mention, not even a bit of print. Toyota's Corolla came up next, again not a word of being cleaner, greener, perhaps part of our savour. Yesterday I get a $4000 promotional discount offer from Land Rover. Wanting me to buy into a new piece of ancient junk full of modern bling. Their affordable to the elite Range Rover is their only version of a Hybrid, again not a word and one has to go looking to find out. I emailed back and advised them we had bought a Hybrid, and only interested in another or an EV from now on.

If companies are finding the pace, price, competition, and advancements delivering what the market wants, then we are going out like a snow flake over a fire. Writing to a politician you may as well use the paper to start the fire. They don't reply and if its outside their existing jobs and growth box that ticks off with the donations list, they can't and don't want to see it. I wrote to Ford before we bought, asked them if they had a Hybrid or electric Focus on the near future to replace the wife's run around. They replied, we can not disclose due to market advantage. So no basically.

I'm probably preaching to the converted, but I'm pleading with you all to think about your own impact of GW. And take every opportunity to let others know you think it is here. Don't be scared of the white elephant, and they think you are a greenie anyway because you bushwalk. I love the Land Rover saying One Life...Live it, but thats the trouble we do and its only 80 years long. If we all lived for several hundred years, or 1000's perhaps it would all be different.

By the way, I'm no capitalist, actually I fail at it because I spend to much time holidaying with, or tending to family. My bank balance does't have any 0's, and that's no BS. So we have stretched, probably paid to much in comparison, and I take flack from the mates who do nothing unless the $'s add up or favour them. Perhaps I'm a looser, a stupid greenie, but I am happy with my one life I am giving it all I can for the place where I live.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby climberman » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 5:43 am

Land Rover's flagship, the Defender, is now discontinued.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 7:04 am

Yep, mid year they stopped. Safety, emissions, hand made production cost finally put it to bed. I like that mine does't beep, ding, or tell me I'm dumb. But the good ol arrogant english engineering is a bit to be desired. Over 30 years in development and much of what was on the first is in the last. Collectors or crap is in the eye of the beholder. If I had the money I'd turn mine into a garden ornament, a little bit of nostalgia from of the days of the past. Still if Mr Toyota rang up I'd be very interested in trading it.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby Nuts » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 8:50 am

Have you found Endless Sphere newhue?
Some very knowledgeable people and good discussions, a groundswell for EV.
Perhaps driven mostly by the desire for electric bikes but it's encouraging at the grassroots level. Need governments to step up and corporate interference pushed aside:

https://endless-sphere.com
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 4:37 pm

No I haven't Nuts but I will have a read. Thank you. I'll take it as an expansion, not go over there will ya and leave us alone. Though I imagine some would like that lol.:shock:

Have to admit I'm a basic big picture bloke desperately trying to evoke some thought. It appears the automotive industry is controlled by invested interest to maintain the status quo, far cheaper and more profitable I imagine but I have had enough. I'm tired of governments and car companies with their Euro emission cheap fix as an answer to GW. It is all of our problem, a real one, and this is my bit as a concerned bushwalker, not an EV geek. I believe if you gave the public a fair priced decent alternative to fossil fuel they would jump at it. And yes the public need to realise sometimes you have to give a little to save something, particularly at the start. The oil and associated companies with the money makers are too scared of loosing their grip, so are screwing us and the planet when we could all be doing much much better.

Just look at the Bathurst V8 show. In the name of competition everyone uses ford running gear be it holden or ford race car. When they realised their V8 show was doomed with the closing of Ford and Holden they recently allowed european V8's in. In the 80's to gate keep their little patch while the world was arguing over peak oil production, they exiled smaller compacity vehicles that ran circles around their heavy V8 tubs, remember skylines and the sierras. And still the penny hasn't dropped why Ford and Holden went under. I am not sure of fan numbers, but I bet only running V8's its smaller than it could be. The bogans come and pay as long as a V8 is going round, the money makers couldn't give a rip about GW, and they are all happy. Not much different to the local factory car dealer selling brand new vehicles with normally aspirated motors where the basic design is over 108 years old.
I am glad there is ground swell, and I hope its huge. I hope it gets here tomorrow! Because as usual, it will have to smack a politician in the face to see it.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Fri 07 Oct, 2016 7:44 pm

good lord,.... maybe there is hope for the dirty ol Defender

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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby Xplora » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:27 am

I drove a V8 Monaro coupe when it was just new (a bit over 10 years ago) from Sydney to Ballarat and back with a diversion to Mt. Beauty and we averaged 9.2l/100km. I have also driven the Commodore with the Skyline turbo 6 motor in it when new and they suck fuel pretty hard when you put the foot down. Never as quick as the V8 (leaded petrol). Holden stopped making V8's for a while back in the late 80's with the change to unleaded and reintroduced it in the early 90's but it took a while to refine. Car makers are interested in making money and not making V8's makes sense when people are more conscious about fuel costs. Bathurst has very little to do with production cars for a long time. It is a sport for the petrol heads but many of them are forced to drive economical vehicles or at least have one for day to day use. Try towing with an EV. It is going to take a long time to replace petrol/diesel engines completely. At least with diesel you can burn non-fossil fuel. Bio diesel is not recommended for all but in time that could change.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby newhue » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:09 am

Yes all cars do their best on the highway, even this hybrid thing turns over to normally aspirated motoring. But if EV can do it now, keep thinking of the brick phone and the technology explosion with take up rates of the smaller nokias. You give the ol munaro a good flogging, or just accelerate quickly from the lights in any car and it will let you know next fill.

Ive noticed the average ratio of a caravan to car is 1.5 time the car. Boy havn't they taken off, everyone who wants to travel now just has to have one. Got a few mates who tow. One has to do 110km in his 4cyl turbo diesel to find the sweet spot with his 1.5t camper. If you do 90 or 100, you may as well do 80 he says, and he is not a patient man. Another just bought a Land Cruiser V8, just for the two of them. I'm the odd one out, I get a bit of flack about still using a tent and cruising at 90. But still manage to pack as fast or faster then the big rigs and arrive not much later. I think if they are making 2T hybrids trucks, they can do tradie comercials or something biggish for towing me thinks. Again its just a belief if GW is here well and truly before you die; and thats for politicians, CEO's, retiries, and mums and dads. Is life more important than only changing if we can find a way to make money from it? Do we really love, or are we just selfish at the core?

I had wondered if car manufacturers forced by governments, had to make 99% of standard vehicles accelerate slowly. This would ruduce the worst part of the vehicles fuel consumption. There could be a safety "get out of trouble" feature that kicks in full throttle if the accelerator was complety depressed. Of course if you chose to drive like this you pay dearly, but it forces people into changing how they drive. However I already know Gov's never would, no manufacture would do it alone, and the people just could not cope with the change. *&%$#! the planet its all about me I think they would subconsciously think.
I have notived changing all gears under 2000rpm in the dirty ol defender it takes a while to get to speed, especially when I pull out on the highway. But I discovered people just suck it up, or even drive slower, so it seems there are many patient people, or they are just sheep. Some get the *&^%$#@! and gun it past and I have half a giggle. Its their money
I think but my planet as well.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing what the new economy is, and I'm a lot more relaxed which is welcomed.
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Re: Electric cars for Fossil cars

Postby Nuts » Sun 09 Oct, 2016 9:36 am

[quote="newhue"]No I haven't Nuts but I will have a read. Thank you. I'll take it as an expansion, not go over there will ya and leave us alone. Though I imagine some would like that lol.:shock:

Wouldn't doubt that.. But not me, go for your life.

Lots of big picture discussions there, with constraints similar to those that have been mentioned. Vested interests, no point without a sustainable public energy source.
Interestingly the infancy of ev is forcing a new look at efficiency. Even here were looking at alternatives to the family car but why use a tonne of car for 90% of trips that transport one driver. Lots of projects involve single person ( bikes or ) enclosed vehicles.

I tried to import a large lithium battery earlier in the year for a project and with the freight, just wasn't viable. Considering that this situation varies country by country points to the influence of those with something to loose rather than any bs about safety etc. the world needs to move forward in leaps and bounds yet stifled at every stage. I agree, frustrating! Not helped by weak and/ or complicit government.
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