Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby Grover » Thu 27 Oct, 2016 8:38 pm

I am new to this forum but I don't think GTL is a troll! He is just expressing his opinion like Newhue does!
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby newhue » Sun 30 Oct, 2016 8:54 am

Trolls hey.....could also be seen as orcks perhaps.

so why do we even have to consider this, and a 19 year old at that,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GhwzqsCawk

rather if governments funded society from taxing companies instead of its people; by using an increasing tax scale just like cigarettes have copped each passing year,

then in no time companies would come up with things like this to reduce their tax exposure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YG9gUJMGyw

Sure there will be a base line tax for all companies as they have a foot print on earth, but for the the old school ones who won't change, who cares how much tax they pay.
For the ones reducing their foot print on earth then power to them, I know who's beer I'm buying with all my extra cash I didn't pay personal income tax on.


Hey Nuts, good on you, keep collecting or picking up those plastic bags and dumping them outside your local coles or woolworths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDMluq9TEgI
Last edited by newhue on Mon 31 Oct, 2016 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby newhue » Mon 31 Oct, 2016 6:43 am

I know a man who has used his political journeys to discover tunnelling equipment used by armies in Kuwait. He wants to pick this land up at a discounted price from the State government to help them out with debt, then put all the power under ground in a serviceable tunnel to help community health concerns, then sell the land for more housing for himself. Sound good?
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I say just a large personal wealth project that leaves community and government only a little better off with 0 regard for the tiny green corridor that exits there now. I guess that is how we price the planet in an antiquated money lusting community and country.

Of course I'd prefer the coal power company to pay to put it underground to reduce their tax exposure. Then perhaps build a huge green corridor with a solar tram on a joint bike path weaving its way around the community to these establishments of jobs and growth called industrial estates, transport hubs and so on. Industry will always require staff, and what better way to get cars off the road and create much needed environment and better mental and physical health for the people. Industry will possibly always need power with their demands, but its possible may they wish to change also.
Now the coal power station can't really pass on the cost of doing such a project, and this is one way they could reduce there tax exposure to balance it out to be fair an them. Because if they did try and pass the cost on as they do now then electricity becomes to expansive and they will start loosing customers. Instead they would be forced in a way (via tax exposure) to cut back profits and turn a % of it into R&D or reducing tax. Private investment can come on board with such a project, and the new National Service (non military) project could come to life. More on that later.

Bollocks you might think, well consider this, in 2016 if I'm looking at going off grid with a tesla solar system with this cool looking roof, and hopefully charge my cool looking Tesla car over night with its 400km range, then why wouldn't many others be thinking the same also. I know my house will go up in value and the car has a guaranteed buy back from Tesla. At $2200 a year in electricity now I'd just love to be off grid, and have 1/10 the cost of running a motor vehicle than I currently do. And I expect all this solar technology its only going to become cheaper. I meet many who have looked at Tesla or know about it, and I don't meet many. So if I owned a big *&%$#! shed with a huge roof I'd be talking to Tesla about reducing costs and my tax exposure as well, not the coal fired powered station which would find it hard to charge high prices.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/28/these-are-teslas-stunning-new-solar-roof-tiles-for-homes/
https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/energy

Perhaps if our very slow and out of touch government, who wish to open the worlds biggest coal mine, persist with its way of governing then Australia can just add more coal into the boiler of the gravy train to really get it cranking. Conservative we may be, but we need to change or we will get left way, way behind. More then we are now!
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby weeds » Mon 31 Oct, 2016 9:56 pm

Holly *&%$#! Jas..........I think we need to get out walking or get back into a weekly MTB ride.

I like how you are so passionate about the world....it give the me *&^%$#@! everyday, just like you I pick up rubbish, see wastage, health deteriorating etc etc I have given up to an extent but still do my little bit here and there.

How's the brakes going on the defer hehehehe
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby newhue » Tue 01 Nov, 2016 6:53 am

Hi weeds, can you tell I have not much to think about at work while I'm colouring in. But good on you, great to hear, and yes we should.

Watched 4 corners last night. Perhaps another example of how companies push governments, the people, and their resources because the government is desperate for jobs and growth and hence votes. Salmon farming is apparently sustainable, but when the really big players come in the politics change, false "green approval" from earthy third parties arrives. And contempt for the industry and the environment take over as profits roll in. Science yet again is a load of *&%$#!, as how can this little show in a harbour affect the big wide world.

Seems to me to change the existing circus, a new way of doing things needs to be free from preferential voting, political donations, not be a full time career, have significant local grass route input, and reduced labour wants, liberal wants, and not cost a fortune every time a question is asked to the people. We need a common ground that we all live on, the earth as the wholly grail. After all it is what sustains us; not unions, nor businessmen, or entities donating for decisions to favour more money making above everything else.

Been reading up on the Switzerland direct democracy model. Its the closest model to being true us humans have produced that I can tell, and seems a much fairer way then representative democracy. It's basically designed to involve the people and keep them interested in their countries direction, and let them have a direct influence over it, on a basis of their choosing. The legislative branch are not full time, they have their own jobs, so it keeps them moving through society at a daily non elevated level. The people can decide if legislation needs amending if its not right for them by direct vote. Switzerland is much much smaller that Australia, and I'm not sure if they are intrenched 45, 45, 10 in their political sway as is Australia. So that may have some baring on its success, and of course it neutral. From wikipedia "A Self imposed, armed and designed to ensure external security." New Zealand just call it geared up for Aid work. I'm sure we could slip into that as well.

I spoke to an IT mate who works on making hospitals paperless. The system tracks patients, staff, and movements of medications and procedures plus a lot more all online. He said yes a voting system could be made, and hack proof, just don't get IBM to do it. Don't know about you, but I watched in wonder and shame as the census crashed. IBM had muffed it again after the Qld government payroll debacle.

Found this web site that compares countries prosperity to Australia, and in landmass. No populations however, or political systems so I have provided them. It seems representative democracy is not doing so well, and population has little or no baring.

http://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/AU/CH

Switzerland 8.4 million Direct Democracy
US 324 million Federal Republic with parts of direct democracy at State and local level.
Canada 36 million representative Westminster
UK 65 million representative Westminster
Aus 24 million representative Westminster
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby newhue » Tue 01 Nov, 2016 5:49 pm

Actually I was wrong of me to insinuate GTL to liken an Orc, that was petty of me and I am sorry. I should have responded by asking why and what is so hilarious? Where doesn't it make sense? What would you suggest? What is so good about the current way we do things? Seriously, I'm not trying to slander you.

On my land rover I have a sticker One Life...Live it. I do love that saying and try to subscribe to that as much as I can. I feel I owe it to my children, myself, family, friends, and country. But with this now environment tax placed on companies to fund a society governed by a direct democracy is very complex; and I don't know or have all the answers however I bet society does. My posts here are an attempt to start conversation to work out how society can take their life, country, and future back from career politicians who can't answer questions, faceless companies with insane bonuses and profits, over zealous unions, and whoever else pushes society around.

It's to big a ask to become a direct democracy right now, so an Australia wide network of lower and upper house representative needs to be created to win fair and square to oust the existing two party preferred with preferential vote representative democracy we currently have. Then after winning the the upper and lower house a direct democracy could then be implemented. Of course all this hinges on weather Australia is interested in a new party in the first place, so the people will speak right from the start. As I see it, internet and technology has to be how it is done as no one has the money to tackle Liberal or Labour. If there is genuine intent, transparency, and plan worked out by "the people", then a road map can be made to an objective, which all helps with change. I'm banking on in a direct democracy you have no idea who will chip in, and there will be some very smart people who will be disillusioned with the current system, and happy to give some time and information. It is from this an outline for an online party can form.
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby newhue » Sat 05 Nov, 2016 6:49 am

Perhaps come back a little, ever wondered why the more you earn the more tax you pay? Ever wondered no matter how much a company earns they pay the same. Ever wondered if your job was the same as a CEO's you could do better. Imagine going to work and asking yourself all day how can I make more money? Its not really surprising million dollar bonus are paid on top of several million dollar pay packets, because a company has no other purpose then supply something to make money. No soul, no morals, no ethics, rather a mission statement and a perceived image of be a good company. Some fail, some do better, some don't care, but generally nearly all suck when it comes to contributing to the planet. Displaying little regard or ownership of their product after the sale, or foot print from go to whoa of that process. Ever wondered how much money is redirected into paying less tax. Have you ever though what % do you spend trying to reduce tax 5, 10, 15% of your profits? Or is it you just earn a wage as your only profit.

To think no matter how much a company makes they pay 30% regardless. Some companies pay payroll tax for more than 20 staff I think. But generally 30% on whatever you can make. However little ol citizen, the more you make the more you pay, and furthermore you pay more anyway with most of us in the brackets that pays 32.5% and 37% as well as a nominal sum up front. Just imagine if companies paid a tax for all the land fill they produce from selling us their products. You might think its not fair, but I ask is the company going to go away, unlikely, they want your money and it has no soul or feelings, just a profit and loss balance sheet. Its not a matter of passing on the tax, or raising prices as they will become to expansive. It's about reducing their impact on earth so their tax goes down so profits go up.

private tax scales
[url]file:///Users/imac/Desktop/Individual%20income%20tax%20rates%20%7C%20Australian%20Taxation%20Office.webarchive[/url]

Here is some left over company assets I have picked out of the stingy 20m wide nature stip us humans have left for nature. The pile represent only about 100m length of cleanup, I stop for a bit each morning as I walk the dog. You can blame the consumer as much as the manufacturer. But we live in a society filled with people controlled by companies, it should be the other way round. Instead of society paying for clean ups, land fill sites, dump stations, all stuff made by a company and neglected after the point of sale.

If I had a say I'd have a network set up called National Service, dumbed down for the laziest of welfare recipients. Anyone can pick rubbish up, pull weeds, or plant a tree. Payment size liked to previous salary, and if you don't participate in National Service for those payment than your welfare payment reflects your enthusiasm to contributing to society. Tuff love is what most of need to get going, not a gravey train of laziness. I don't see why we have to have a clean up Australia day, I don't see why council has to pay for a bin for me to put my collected piled into. I don't see why companies are not more responsive with the end cycle of their product, and humans also need to wake up and stop treating the planet as dump. Can't make air, can't make water, can't make soil. Can make companies that make stuff and punish the people however.

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On the other side you take a track that is used by many to illegally dump. A left over access path from power line, sewerage, and gas service installation to a new housing estate. And just copy what National Parks do and chuck sticks over it. Nature fills in the rest, and eventually will regrow it. But a few local native trees planted wouldn't hurt either. Tell me why someone receiving welfare could not do that for the weekly payment.

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Because in the end every little bit help, as us humans just can't get enough of this......
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby newhue » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 10:08 pm

back in 1994 I watched this doco ago about hemp. A natural fibre that made bags, sails, paper, ropes, clothing, and more. Nowadays hemp, grown with no THC (the drug component) is used in all sorts of medicines, even for children. Seems Du-Pont a chemical/plastic company, a banker, and a politician changed the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDeyNLUwf_U

Now we possibly have this to thank them for, oceans full of plastic. Furthermore every time you wash your synthetic clothes you add to the problem as the clothing looses micro plastic fibres. All end up in the sea eventually.
http://www.infowars.com/the-great-pacific-garbage-patch-we-are-literally-filling-up-the-pacific-ocean-with-plastic/

Again, is it you the tax payer who pays for these companies products to be cleaned up. And we know mother earth sure has paid. Why not tax companies who have no regard for the world we all live on. Do you think these companies will go broke? Would you care? Do you think nothing would emerge to replace them?
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Re: Pricing the Planet, for love or money?

Postby newhue » Mon 14 Nov, 2016 6:22 am

Must have all those silent majority on y side like ol Trump hey,

Got a mate involved in mining. Have walked and dined with a few involved in mining. Governments already ask mines to do environmental impact studies. Identify specific sites if significance, count ants, insects, animals and plant species, collect seeds, and put aside land at 10 times more than what's proposed to be tilled if a struggling animal species is found on the proposed land. Then if they get approval, it's possible. But they also have to make sure money is put aside to rebuild, revegetate and monitor that process for 10 years afterwards.

I am aware Coke pay 1c for spring water, then sell it to you for several dollars, and sometime only in a 600ml bottle. Furthermore some of their brands is only tap water at several dollars for the bottle it seems. I am aware the spring water supplier is happy to pay a per litre fee as its a use of a natural resource, and the right thing to do.

Are we just like Monica under Coke's big office table? Do we need coke more than minerals. Why is this so. Perhaps our fearless leaders are scared to say no to Coke, they might pack up and leave. Take all their fridges they sold to the shops so they can only stock their brands. Take their jobs away from us while ripping us blind, making us fat and lazy with written teeth with all their young, free, happy and having fun marketing. If coke self insures their cars, their OH&S obligations, how much tax do you think they pay?

They are the biggest bottler on the planet, they own almost every bottle, or aluminium can, and pay nothing.
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