Private Forums Now Available

[Son of a Beach]

The phpBB software on which these forums is built is capable of managing groups of members as well as complex permissions on forums and groups. This gives us the ability to host sub-forums which are only accessible to a particular groups of members.

This week we started up the first two private forums here at bushwalk.com. Each of these two private forums is only visible to a small group of members who are familiar with each other and who do a lot of group communications via private messages or emails (to arrange group walks, or for other private discussions). Feedback indicates that both groups are happy with the new arrangement. Some of their discussions are much easier to manage and keep track of in a forum context, but do not belong in the public forums.

For people who are members of a group which has a private forum, that forum will be visible the same as any other forum on this site, in the list of forums on the index page (currently they are all in an additional forums category called "Private Track", which is only visible to groups who have forums in that category).

If anybody else believes they have a need for a private bushwalking-related forum, you are welcome to apply for one by sending me an email or a private message. Such private forums could be useful for a variety of groups, including bushwalking clubs, informal groups of walkers or commercial interests. Please note that you would need to be able to convince me that the new forum would be well used to make it worthwhile creating it (eg, anything less than 10 members may be difficult to justify). A small fee may apply for commercial interests.

If applying for a new group and a private forum, please provide me with the following information:

• Justification for a private forum. Eg, purpose, use, description, why you think the new private forum would be well used, what benefit you think it will bring to the members, expected number of members, why you would expect it to have no detrimental effect on the public forums community.
• Proposed group name and forum name (these will usually be the same name).
• List of proposed group members.
• List of proposed group leaders (at least two) who can add/delete members.
• Group Type:
  • Open (anybody can join at any time)
  • Request (anybody can request membership, to be approved by group leader)
  • Closed (only group leaders can add new members)
  • Hidden (non-members cannot even see that the group exists)
• Forum Accessibility:
  • Non-members can read, but not post
  • non-members can see forum but cannot read topics/posts
  • non-members cannot even see that the forum exists
  • (other permissions are possible - please ask if you need different requirements).
• Forum Moderation:
  • Externally moderated (moderated by site moderators)
  • Internally moderated (moderated by one or more members of the group - please include a list of proposed moderators)
  • Unmoderated (mostly)
  (In any case site admins, but not site moderators, are still able override permissions and view posts in private forums, but will generally not do so without a good reason.)

[corvus]

For anyone who may be interested in doing this our " Strollers Group" now use it and we all very happy with the result (no danger of leaving someone off when sending PM ) and as a bonus you can stir your mates without anyone else being offended
Well worth considering.
corvus

[ILUVSWTAS]

For anyone who may be interested in doing this our " Strollers Group" now use it and we all very happy with the result (no danger of leaving someone off when sending PM ) and as a bonus you can stir your mates without anyone else being offended
Well worth considering.
corvus

Agreed.

[north-north-west]

...) and as a bonus you can stir your mates without anyone else being offended

Yeah, but I bet I still wouldn't be able to get away with mentioning dead dog bags there . . .

[corvus]

...) and as a bonus you can stir your mates without anyone else being offended

Yeah, but I bet I still wouldn't be able to get away with mentioning dead dog bags there . . .

Yes my friend as usual you are so right
corvus

[ULWalkingPhil]

I don't know if I like this.

[frenchy_84]

...) and as a bonus you can stir your mates without anyone else being offended

Yeah, but I bet I still wouldn't be able to get away with mentioning dead dog bags there . . .

Permission granted, who likes dogs anyway

[doogs]

I like dogs! But cats are a whole different matter. How do you make a cat go woof?

[frenchy_84]

I don't know if I like this.

It is unfortunate, however every i has to be dotted and every t crossed in the public forums so as to not offend someone and therefore be modded

[stepbystep]

I like dogs! But cats are a whole different matter. How do you make a cat go woof?

Throw it on a fire

Can't believe I said that, my dogs are far more intelligent than most humans I know, BY FAR!

[ollster]

Can't believe I said that, my dogs are far more intelligent than most humans I know, BY FAR!

They beat me in a game of chess, but it was 2 vs 1.

I don't know if I like this.

I do, for all the reasons cited above by Frenchie. The preciousness of the main forum was becoming *&%$#! unbearable.

[doogs]

Maybe an "emo" bushwalkers private forum would be a good idea.

[ILUVSWTAS]

The preciousness of the main forum was becoming *&%$#! unbearable.

Ahhh that sums it up beautifully!!!!!

[ILUVSWTAS]

I like dogs! But cats are a whole different matter. How do you make a cat go woof?

Throw it on a fire

Can't believe I said that, my dogs are far more intelligent than most humans I know, BY FAR!

Lol, nope your MODDED!! I got modded for talking about trapping feral cats some time back. Seriously, they are FERAL cats. Hence the name FERAL.

Some people do get upset a bit too easily. These people shouldnt be allowed on the internet!! It will eventually break them.

[doogs]

I like dogs! But cats are a whole different matter. How do you make a cat go woof?

Throw it on a fire

Can't believe I said that, my dogs are far more intelligent than most humans I know, BY FAR!

Lol, nope your MODDED!! I got modded for talking about trapping feral cats some time back. Seriously, they are FERAL cats. Hence the name FERAL.

Some people do get upset a bit too easily. These people shouldnt be allowed on the internet!! It will eventually break them.

modsquad.jpg

[Son of a Beach]

I got modded for talking about trapping feral cats some time back.

One of the reasons that we ask people not to discuss particular moderation incidents in the public forum is the misinformation that is generated. I do no recall the specific event you are referring to, however, I have no problem with people discussing trapping or killing ferral cats, and I'm confident the other moderators don't either. I suspect it was for something else within the post the the moderation occurred. If you ever think you've been unfairly moderated, please report it to an admin, without discussing it in public.

Thanks.

[north-north-west]

I don't know if I like this.

It's perfectly above board, I promise you. No swearing, no sick jokes, no stirring, nothing at all like that.
We're just plotting the downfall of civilisation as you know it.

[Tony]

When I first read about private forums now being available on Bushwalk Australia, like Phillipsart, I also did not like the idea, after reading the discussion and thinking about it for a while I like the private forums even less, I think it is a very bad move by Bushwalk Australia to do this.

Sure the idea of a private forum discussion group eg to arrange walks amongst friends might sound a good idea but from some of the comments some members just want to be able to get away from the forum rules on politeness. The danger is that Bushwalk Australia will end up being full of private little groups that only have discussions over their own private forums with the consequence that it will reduced open discussion on the main site.

I must ask are these private forums going to be moderated to the same rules as the main forum.

As far as I am concerned this is a public forum made up of members who make up a community which have a common interest in Bushwalking and all discussion should be kept open, polite and friendly.

Tony

PS: I am looking for expressions of interest to apply to start a private (secret) forum to discuss ways to lobby Bushwalk Australia admin to remove the private forum feature.

[stepbystep]

Hi Tony,

fear not, I feel it's just a way of keeping forum members, members. There was some over zealous modding going on that threatened losing members, at least one member disappeared.
Whether we agree with or not another member or their attitude is very subjective, so you aren't going to keep everyone happy. This is at least a way of keeping more members happy.

It makes organising a trip far easier as all the information is there for the group, they can opt in or out of the discussion/trip without a huge email stream clogging up inbox's, and PM's are clunky.
These are not discussions that would happen on the open forum anyway, because we like to walk with who we like to walk with, and no-one wants to be rude in excluding others that may want to join in.
There is some banter that would be modded because more sensitive minded forum members/moderators may object. The advantage is that the general populace of BWA don't have to read the rubbish!

As a member of a private forum I have no intention of not contributing to the main forum in the usual way, so win win IMHO

Cheers, sbs

[ollster]

I must ask are these private forums going to be moderated to the same rules as the main forum.

As far as I am concerned this is a public forum made up of members who make up a community which have a common interest in Bushwalking and all discussion should be kept open, polite and friendly.

PS: I am looking for expressions of interest to apply to start a private (secret) forum to discuss ways to lobby Bushwalk Australia admin to remove the private forum feature.

No, they are self-moderated in the truest sense, not in the "self moderate or I'll do it for you" sense. Yes, they are to get away from the forum rules and to allow for frank and open conversation without some prude getting their panties in a knot over jokes or ridiculous conversation. Yes, we are using to arrange trips, and trips often trips that cannot be arranged on the main forum because of the "sensitive areas discussion" rule.

Lastly - yes, I think you should have your own sub forum to discuss the change if you want, you're entitled to it, just don't push your opinion onto people happy with the new change.

Personally I will participating very little in the open forum if I can avoid it. So it's win/win as far as I can see.

[sthughes]

Hi Tony,

fear not, I feel it's just a way of keeping forum members, members. There was some over zealous modding going on that threatened losing members, at least one member disappeared.
Whether we agree with or not another member or their attitude is very subjective, so you aren't going to keep everyone happy. This is at least a way of keeping more members happy.

It makes organising a trip far easier as all the information is there for the group, they can opt in or out of the discussion/trip without a huge email stream clogging up inbox's, and PM's are clunky.
These are not discussions that would happen on the open forum anyway, because we like to walk with who we like to walk with, and no-one wants to be rude in excluding others that may want to join in.
There is some banter that would be modded because more sensitive minded forum members/moderators may object. The advantage is that the general populace of BWA don't have to read the rubbish!

As a member of a private forum I have no intention of not contributing to the main forum in the usual way, so win win IMHO

Cheers, sbs

Yep, I second all that

[Son of a Beach]

I got modded for talking about trapping feral cats some time back.

One of the reasons that we ask people not to discuss particular moderation incidents in the public forum is the misinformation that is generated. I do no recall the specific event you are referring to, however, I have no problem with people discussing trapping or killing ferral cats, and I'm confident the other moderators don't either. I suspect it was for something else within the post the the moderation occurred. If you ever think you've been unfairly moderated, please report it to an admin, without discussing it in public.

Thanks.

I appreciate ILUSWTAS taking this to a private message to follow up. So just to be fair, I thought I'd better mention that as he pointed out to me, it came from this old post: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4377&p=50862#p50862

Hey, guys, dealing with feral animals is a reasonable topic of discussion (feral cats certainly are a serious problem that needs to be dealt with), however some of the details of the methods employed discussed so far is getting some animal lovers a little upset (according to PMs I've received). So please tone it down when discussing methods of extermination. Thanks in anticipation for your consideration.

In my defence, I think that was very tame moderation (no action taken), which I think suited the situation, because it was barely moderation-worthy. However, I also agree with ILUVSWTAS that sometimes people are waaaay to sensitive about such things, and should just get over it, and perhaps even my tame moderation post was too heavy handed. Would I do the same thing again? I don't know.

OK... now back to keeping discussion of specific moderation incidents off the public forums.

[Son of a Beach]

When I first read about private forums now being available on Bushwalk Australia, like Phillipsart, I also did not like the idea, after reading the discussion and thinking about it for a while I like the private forums even less, I think it is a very bad move by Bushwalk Australia to do this.

Sure the idea of a private forum discussion group eg to arrange walks amongst friends might sound a good idea but from some of the comments some members just want to be able to get away from the forum rules on politeness. The danger is that Bushwalk Australia will end up being full of private little groups that only have discussions over their own private forums with the consequence that it will reduced open discussion on the main site.

I must ask are these private forums going to be moderated to the same rules as the main forum.

As far as I am concerned this is a public forum made up of members who make up a community which have a common interest in Bushwalking and all discussion should be kept open, polite and friendly.

Tony

PS: I am looking for expressions of interest to apply to start a private (secret) forum to discuss ways to lobby Bushwalk Australia admin to remove the private forum feature.

This is a valid concern, and much the same as what Philipsart expressed to me when I queried the nature of his concern privately. I will aim to monitor the private forums on odd occasions to see how they are being used. However, from what I can tell so far, they are merely replacing the conversations that were already being had in private anyhow (by PM and/or email), which is the intention for these two groups in particular.

The private forums are less moderated than the public ones, as is fit for any private group. It is up to the group to decide what level of moderation is reasonable for them (of course extremes will still be dealt with if we become aware of them).

We cannot stop private groups from having private discussions. They were doing this already, by other means, and they were already completely unmoderated. I was aware of just how much private discussion was going on, because I've been included in some of them over the last few years. The private forums merely facilitates those discussions by providing a format that may be more useful for them.

However, if they do end up detracting from the community as a whole, then the situation will certainly be reviewed. It is certainly the community here on the whole that is of primary concern. Currently, the members of both groups are still just as active in the public forums as they ever were, but of course it's early days yet.

PS. There is also the requirement for applications for a private forum to justify their proposal with some good reasoning. If the proposed forum did not have a good reason for being private then it would not be approved.

[Son of a Beach]

I've received another private message with some concerns about this issue, and I thought I'd include most of my reply here (below) as there appears to be a few people that share similar concerns. Please feel free to discuss the issue here, so long as it is kept on topic and discussed in a constructive manner.
--------------------------------------

Thanks for your feedback. Constructive criticism is welcome (and sometimes necessary), so I appreciate it.

There appears to be a view that the offer of private forums was done in order to get some regular offenders of the site rules out of the public forums. However, this was not a consideration for me. I do not expect it to reduce participation in the public forums, but I could be wrong. I will try to keep an eye on things to monitor this (I do notice, as you pointed out, that one person has already said he no longer wishes to participate in the public forums).

BWA does not need to jump through hoops to provide private forums. It is actually very quick and simple to set up. I originally considered offering it to bushwalking clubs a couple of years ago, but it never eventuated.

Yes, private discussions can be had in a variety of other ways. In the past, these have mostly been done by PMs or by emails. However, for long running discussions, this is very awkward and tedious, and sometimes members of the group get unintentionally left out. Forums are a much more suitable medium for discussions than emails in some situations.

The BWA community already split? I hadn't considered that, but perhaps you're right to some extent. I wouldn't call it split, but there has certainly been at least two small groups (that I know of) that have naturally formed within the membership. Most of those people had never met before using the forums, but have subsequently met for walks, and naturally formed their own informal group. This would continue with or without private forums, and I'm hopeful that the private forums will facilitate their already private discussions without any detrimental affect on the public forums.

It was certainly not a bet each way to try to appease any group(s). They were not aware of the possibility until I started offering it. I only offered it to them, because I thought it would be a better way of carrying on the discussions that I already knew they were having in private.

I agree very much about your point regarding communities being built on mutual respect. I continue to be very disappointed in the lack of respect that a small number of members here show to others. I'm actually completely baffled by the hostility of some people. However, this was not a factor in my offer of a private forum for either group (both of which include members who appear to have no problems with the site rules).

When I first considered offering private group forums, it was going to be for bushwalking clubs, and possibly for commercial groups (eg, a vendor who wants private discussion and feedback from a controlled group of people). However, it became quickly obvious to me that we had two informal groups already that I knew of who I thought could benefit from it.

I do not expect this to detract from the public forums, however it is a valid concern that you and a couple of others have raised, and I will aim to somehow (not sure how) monitor this. If it turns out that I am wrong, then I will certainly review the situation, and if necessary change things to cater for it.

[Son of a Beach]

hmmm... interesting. I've just gone and re-read the Moderators' own private discussion on this issue from back in December. Most of them raised the same concerns back then too, but I must have forgotten it. However, they generally agreed that it was worth doing, in the end.

[corvus]

Wow !! did not think that being able to discuss our Strollers walks with ease rather than through PM or email could possibly upset anyone
and as a long term frequent contributor to BWA I will continue to do so .
corvus

[sthughes]

Yes I too am totally flabbergasted by the opposition

Nik is just providing a convenient way for people to have private discussions privately(ish).

The discussions would (and do) take place anyway. I can't see any issue with that happening via a more convenient format.

For me at least it will not make the slightest difference to my participation on the main forum.

[doogs]

Wow !! did not think that being able to discuss our Strollers walks with ease rather than through PM or email could possibly upset anyone
and as a long term frequent contributor to BWA I will continue to do so .
corvus

As far as I can see it works fine. If I feel I have something to add to a discussion or pass on knowledge of an area I still will. If I go on a walk and enjoy it I will still share my experiences on the track notes or gallery section of the forum. As for discussing walks in sensitive areas and who I will be going with, I don't think anyone can argue that these should be done in private (unless using the find walking companions tool).

[ILUVSWTAS]

What on earth would people be opposed to?? Some people just like to whinge about ANYTHING!! Just tell them they are no longer being used Nik. OR if they really wanna see what is gonig on in these private forums take a snippet from one of our conversations and post it in a PUBLIC FORUM!!!!!!!

If these private forums are taken away I will be very unhappy.

[Son of a Beach]

What on earth would people be opposed to?? Some people just like to whinge about ANYTHING!! Just tell them they are no longer being used Nik.

yes, maybe it was a mistake to post this information publicly. But I do like to be open about what's going on with the site...

OR if they really wanna see what is gonig on in these private forums take a snippet from one of our conversations and post it in a PUBLIC FORUM!!!!!!!

...but not THAT open!

If these private forums are taken away I will be very unhappy.

They would only be taken away if I think their use turns out to be detrimental to the use of the public forums. So far that doesn't appear to be happening.