budget 4 season sleeping bag suggestions?

[SteveJ]

I am looking for a 4 season down bag to use mabye only once or twice a year so do not want to pay huge dollars for it (ie $400 or less) Any suggestion or experience with such a rare beast? prefer something that will do to -15oC.

Steve

[Moondog55]

What do you already have?
How much weight are you prepared to carry

[Strider]

Considered a quilt?

[Moondog55]

In your Sale request you mention already having a bag. Striders right; a lightweight quilt over the top is a good idea

[Strider]

Putting a quilt over the top of a bag defeats the purpose of a quilt - comfort and the ability to move without having your arms pinned to your sides.

[Moondog55]

Putting a quilt over the top of a bag defeats the purpose of a quilt - comfort and the ability to move without having your arms pinned to your sides.

Not sure about that Strider, I've tried Roger Caffins method and while it may not work for you it works for me, I just use a normal quilt style bag without the footbox tho, and from a technical POV there isn't much between an over quilt and a Gerry style "Mountain Sleeper" apart from the side zipper
BigAgnes overbags being just copies of the original

[Moondog55]

Steve I'll sell you my XL overbag cheap

[DonQx]

I am looking for a 4 season down bag to use mabye only once or twice a year so do not want to pay huge dollars for it (ie $400 or less) Any suggestion or experience with such a rare beast? prefer something that will do to -15oC.

Steve

Kathmandu has sleeping bags that are good value for money when you can get them 60% off their nominal full price.

Quality is actually better than their reputation I reckon, not quite the same as top quality brands, but in my books certainly in the "fairly good" or better category.

Their "Polaris" has been sold for under $400 earlier this year in Hobart (http://www.kathmandu.com.au/sleeping-gear/polaris-xt-sleeping-bag-sunset-orange.html)



Maybe the "Pacesetter" would be warm enough for you too? Wouldn't be surprised if that'll come up in the pre-Xmas season sales or clearances for close to $300.



Happy bag hunting!

dq.

[whitefang]

Wild Earth have the Sea to Summit Talus TS3 for just under $450 down from $600 at the moment if you can stretch that far. It has a lower limit rating of -17*C and comes in at just over 1200g. See: http://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/sea-to-summit-talus-ts3-regular-17c-down-hooded-sl/ATS3-R700-UD.

[DonQx]

Talus TS3 has a comfort rating of -9C at http://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/sea-to-summit-talus-ts3-regular-17c-down-hooded-sl/ATS3-R700-UD

Not -17C.

Nearly the same temp ratings as the Kathmandu Polaris, 1C better "at the deep end", but at ~200g less weight.

Looks like a good find!

dq.

[Moondog55]

http://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/big-agn ... wn/blrrl13

But no idea where it fits in the warmth scale with an EN -9 rating, that could be comfort which is normal or it could be the extreme rating but with 411 grams of down I think it is the comfort rating. Being a big bag there would be room for a down jacket and pants which should get you well down below -18 and leave enough in the kitty for a really good pad system

[whitefang]

My mistake, I was supposed to write lower limit. My original post has now been edited...

[Strider]

http://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/big-agnes-lost-ranger-15-9c-650-regular-goose-down/blrrl13

But no idea where it fits in the warmth scale with an EN -9 rating, that could be comfort which is normal or it could be the extreme rating but with 411 grams of down I think it is the comfort rating. Being a big bag there would be room for a down jacket and pants which should get you well down below -18 and leave enough in the kitty for a really good pad system

It says -8C Lower Limit

[Moondog55]

I know, but being without all the data I have to assume it's the normal for EN rating which is lower comfort rating for a male; not the "survival" extreme rating
411 grams of down is quite a lot even if it isn't the highest lofting stuff

[Strider]

EN gives three ratings - Comfort, Lower Limit and Extreme. The specs state it is the Lower Limit that is referred to. No data required.

[Moondog55]

I think we may be talking at cross purposes here Strider. If the male comfort limit is -8C then the Big Agnes bag has plenty of room to boost the temperature handling by wearing adequate clothing inside or even a smaller lighter full sleeping bag inside, remembering that the upper "Comfort" rating is for females.
Steve it's about time you came back into the conversation, as we still don't know what you already have and how it rates for warmth/cost/weight/space etc; as there are many many ways of skinning this particular cat

[SteveJ]

Geezz, you guys move fast

I curently have a Western Mountaineering Summerlite, I am pretty happy with it although it is a very tight fit, I would like a bit more room. I have some velcro tabs on it and often fit my down jacket to it on cold nights (down to -2oC) but I find that is pushing the limits of me being comfortable (I like being warm). I have started using a S2S thermolite reactor compact lite of late, it adds a little warmth but I get a bit tangled in it... My sleeping mat is an Exped Synmat 7 and I share a Tarptent Scarp with my walking mate which I find a warm tent with two big boof heads sleeping in it. I am not sure I understand the quilt thing, I tend to roll around a bit at night and worry about a quilt rolling off and waking up cold? Is that a possablilty? I think I would prefer a new winter bag but could be convinced otherwise. I would prefer warmth over weight and accept a 4 season bag will be at least double my WM summerlite (or more). I have no problem buying online or OS as there are no outdoor stores where I live on the far south coast. I did note that some opf the US sites have some decent discounts?

[Zone-5]

Kathmandu has sleeping bags that are good value for money when you can get them 60% off their nominal full price.

I'll say no on this one from experiencing the joy of a cheap but disappointing cold night of shivers. Also they aren't that good at compressing into a smaller space...

If you don't mind being cold then a Katmandu sleeping bag is for you.

[Moondog55]

[quote="SteveJ"]Geezz, you guys move fast

I curently have a Western Mountaineering Summerlite,/quote]

Summerlite is good warmth for weight but part of that is the tight fit. Did you want a whole new SB or do you want a system that includes the use of the Summerlite as a liner bag?

#"Note"# I'm an advocate of double bags myself and/or using clothing as part of my sleeping system #"Note"#

If you wanted to use the Summerlite then a lightweight quilt with a large boxed foot would work, you would need really good quality down and ultra lite shell fabrics in the quilt or overbag so as not to compress the down in the Summerlite tho

[SteveJ]

I tend to steer away from Katmandu stuff unless I get it at Vinnies for a few bucks and even then it tends to get worn/used just for car camping or around the farm.

MD I think a whole new sleeping bag, mucking around putting together a layered system when I am cold and tired would be a pain in the butt. I have sort of done that with my current system and it fails from time to time with me rolling around at night and I wake up cold. I am pretty lazy and like the simplisity of one bag I think.

[Moondog55]

Look at the Cumulus stuff from Poland, very good value for money
Local dealer on this forum

http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categ ... d=58&vid=1

http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categ ... d=59&vid=1

http://www.globewalker.com.au/down-slee ... 0-climber/

[cooee]

My wife and l bought these sleeping bags last year.

Spent over 9 nights in the snow with them using an Exped Downmat UL 7, BOILED TO DEATH........ For the price they are good.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camping-Whit ... 333wt_1362

[DonQx]

Kathmandu has sleeping bags that are good value for money when you can get them 60% off their nominal full price.

I'll say no on this one from experiencing the joy of a cheap but disappointing cold night of shivers. Also they aren't that good at compressing into a smaller space...

If you don't mind being cold then a Katmandu sleeping bag is for you.

"cold night of shivers" is not our experience with Kathmandu bags.

I get cold ridiculously quickly and take a long time to warm up again ... much to the amusement of the beloved (but she overheats equally quickly in hot weather).

I go camping/walking/kayaking/bike touring quite a lot, 75-100 nites out per year not unusual.

We currently have 4 down bags for different purposes:
- 1X Roman labelled as "Cold Conditions Bag" 1650g 1100g Duck Down 90/10 rated -20C under the "old convention" (~7 years old)
- 2X Kathmandu Moonraker Pertex 1425g Down 700 loft Temps EN -6/-12/-32 (~6 years old)
- 1X One Planet Cocoon -8 900g Down 700 loft EN -2 / -8 / -26 (1 year old)

Also an old One Planet Winterlite that's been more or less worn out (internal baffles torn), used to be considered a -20C too.

The Kathmandu bags are rated exactly right and have kept us warm in pretty bad Tassie winter conditions, at a price significantly lower than any other comparable bag (that was one of the 60% off clearances).

Also, as far as I can tell, you can rely pretty well on the EN temperature ratings to compare bags.

dq.

[DonQx]

post deleted, duplicate of the previous one ... how the h* did that happen?

dq.

[roysta]

If you're that keen on Kathmandu bags get the Polaris XT.
They're currently going for $480.
Personally I reckon it's heavy as at over 1400g though.

[DonQx]

If it was 50% or better off, it would be one of the few bags to meet the OP's specs.

That's the main reason for mentioning it.

[nq111]

I tend to agree that Kathmandu down bags and some similar actually can be good bags and accurate to their temperate ratings.For warmth, build quality and length of service they are up at the better end of the market for sure.

The main issue with them is they use more, lower fill power down to get their warmth, so they are certainly heavier and larger packed than the better bags.

With the EN ratings you won't get the experience of actually freezing at 0 degrees in a bag rated for -15, unlike many of the cheaper (and particularly synthetic) bags.

[nq111]

But back to the original Q, I tend to agree with the posters suggesting go modular. A quality, light down quilt at about 500g thrown over a normal use sleeping bag (rated for about freezing) will take you close to your -15 depending on how cold / warm you sleep. Add a vapour barrier liner for when it is really cold (at about 100g), the ability to wear more of your clothes (e.g. down jacket) plus the fact a tent gives you a bit of warmth you will be fine.

[DonQx]

... Kathmandu down bags ...
The main issue with them is they use more, lower fill power down to get their warmth, so they are certainly heavier and larger packed than the better bags.

"certainly heavier"? ... not so sure ... did a quick scan and found the following (hope I got all of that right):

- Kathmandu Polaris XT EN -9 / -16 / -38 700 loft 1.42 kg currently $480, but has been on clearance for less than $400, would expect that to happen again
- One Planet Winterlite -16 EN -9 / -16 / -38 800 loft 1.42kg $800 RRP, best special is usually 20% off
- MacPac Sanctuary 800 EN -7 / -14 / -35 800 loft 1.5kg $540 on sale
- Mont Telemark and Main Range Hydronaute don't use EN, therefore hard to tell, but show as lowest temp -19 and -25 1.29kg and 1.65kg $850 and $900, best special usually 20% off
- Exped Waterbloc 1000 840 loft EN -9 / -16 / -36 1.63kg $900 RRP, best special usually 30% off
- Sea To Summit TS3 750 loft EN -9 / -17 / -37 1.23kg $450 on sale

Based on that I reckon it is not fair to say that the Kathmandu Polaris XT is "certainly heavier ... than the better bags". It compares pretty well and is lighter than some. The notable exception of course being the Sea To Summit which seems particularly good specs for a very good special price at the moment.

Sooo ... I don't mind if people simply don't like Kathmandu because of their business model or the quality of some of their products.

But I do feel uncomfortable if people make claims that are hard to substantiate or possibly not factual. Appears to me that 2 of the claims made about Kathmandu bags in this thread may not be based on fact when all factors are taken into account (too cold, heavier than "better models").

dq.

[whitefang]

I just saw the Marmot Sawtooth on wildearth. Lower limit -9.8 degrees, comes in at 1.2kg and meets the price requirement at $399.50.