Winter clothing options

[Ubiq]

As winter fast approaches I have been forced to reevaluate my current choice of warm weather clothing; much of which is heavy and antiquated. I am planning a couple of trips to the Snowys this winter to go showshoeing and wanted to get some advise on warm clothing options. The biggest question being Down vs Fleece.

I currently own a somewhat heavy down jacket but in the spirit of trying to lighten my load I want to weigh up the alternatives.

The first option (and the one most attractive to me) is the fleece/layering option.
For my upper body this would include an Icebreaker merino base layer, a Patagonia R1 hoody mid and a windproof/waterproof outer shell (Montbell Storm Cruiser).

The down option would look almost identical but with the R1 hoody subbed out for a Uniqlo ultralight down Parka (despite being a fashionable type down jacket they're well regarded in the US backpacking community and are quite lightweight to boot!)

Legs for both would be a merino baselayer with long pants and some appropriate socks.

First of all, do you think either option is sufficiently warm? I would probably bring an extra merino baselayer top regardless of whether I opt for the down or fleece.

I understand down is generally considered warmer than fleece, but fleece is less affected by moisture/water. The fleece is also much easier to layer and would sit much more comfortably under my rain jacket.

Keen to hear everyones thoughts on this, thanks in advance.

[Moondog55]

I really do like my Uniqlo down parka but it is for camp/sleeping in only.
Base layer is personal preference but I use the lightest weigh polyester I can source, currently Patagonia "Everyday" or the Uniqlo
Discounting the baselayer the R1 plus the shell is not enough, an extra merino top may or may not be enough but I think not.
So much depends on the wind and humidity.
So first off what is the old down you currently have?
What is your budget?
At a minimum I think you need another layer for your legs plus good overpants and a pile or fleece vest.
Not forgetting gloves, mittens shell mittens a balaclave and a beanie either.
I add a windshirt and a pair of zipoff insulated pants to my kit in winter as a matter of course

[Ubiq]

Is that because it's too hot to wear while walking?

There are 2 weight options for the Icebreakers - 200 and 260. How significant is the difference between the two?

My current down jacket is a Fairydown branded one - unsure of the fill weight or feathers. I would estimate 600 duck down. Its warm but weighs in at 530g so its a bit heavy for my preference.

Budget is fairly loose but I don't want to spend more than I have to. Weight is probably the primary concern/limitation.

[Moondog55]

A few reasons, the windproof layer on the Uniqlo doesn't let the sweat evaporate quickly enough so the down gets wet and because it is high lofting down it gets compressed and the warmth is compromised. Down is best saved for camp and sleeping in
530 grams is a LW jacket where snow is concerned so I have to ask if this is your first trip to Kossie?
As the the warmth of the Icebreakers I have absolutely no idea, I've not worn woollen underwear for over 40 years, I still occasionally wear woollen /cashmere/mohair jumpers when appropriate and I think a decent LW open weave woollen/cashmere jumper is much better value than anything from Icebreaker for midlayer use, if you are going to use wool underwear always use the lightest possible, it dries faster which is the whole point of the base layer

[Moondog55]

Here's a link to Snow 101
A lot of information linked in these threads.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16056&p=293213&hilit=Snow+101#p293213

[Mark F]

The general rule is keep the down for camp usage. During the day when clothing gets wet use fleece/synthetic but you usually don't need too much as long as you have a reasonable set of wind/waterproofs.

Personally I believe heavier weights of wool are not a good choice for use during the day and are just heavy compared to down for the evening. If I do wear wool underwear I don't go over 200 weight as wool absorbs water, and while warmish when wet takes a while to dry out and heavier the weight the longer to dry - not a problem if you have a nice ski chalet with a drying room but in a tent, poor choice.

[Neo]

Untested yet but I was passing through Sydney yesterday so stopped to check out a Uniqlo store. I chickened out on purple and the blue camo so got a black ul down jacket. It is very light and thin.
Also recently got a HH fleece with full zip made of polartec. It is very cosy.
I went up a size on the down so can hopefully wear both if needed.
On day walks I'm wearing a polypro top and start with a polyester/merino midlayer.
I too found thin merino as a baselayer does hold the water and doesn't dry easily so not as good as the polypro.
Day before I got a merino beanie (great), balaclava (tight) and a fleece neck warmer from Aldi. Hopefully this combo should be a nice modular system and wasn't too pricey.

[Ubiq]

Thanks for all the responses, plenty of really good information to sift through.

I understand 530g may be a suitable winter jacket weight, but I think there are certainly lighter weight options out there than the one I have, which are more versatile. It'll be the first time to the Snowies for me, but I've spent some time up in Northern Canada in much colder temps.

Some really good info on base layers too. I did a bit of reading last night on the pros and cons of merino vs synthetics which certainly challenged my perception of merino being king. The Patagonia Midweight Capilene crew base seems to be a crowd favourite there, but ultimately suitability will be based on size and what I'm combining it with.

I know its hard to give a definitive yes or no on suitability because there is so much to consider. But for my top I'm thinking something along the lines of;

- Base - Patagonia Capilene MW crew
- Mid - Patagonia R1 fleece hoody
- Insulation - Uniqlo UL down parka (only worn at camp or during breaks)
- Shell - Montbell storm cruiser

This of course will be coupled with appropriate gloves, beanie, socks etc. I also have some Kathmandu polypros I can bring in case I need a little extra at night or at camp.

[Moondog55]

That would not be enough clothing for me but then you are probably younger and fitter than I am but it would probably work for me most of the time if there was a hooded wind breaker layer and a LW/MW vest in there.
You do need to make an allowance for humidity, subjectively our hills are far colder and more dangerous than Northern Canada.
Adding in the polypro is a very good idea
My own torso layering has more layers, Cap1 top/R1 fleece hoodie [ or Kathmando Powerstretch top]/Montane Featherlite windproof shirt/Patagonia nanopuff pullover/ Storm Parka/ Patagonia DAS belay parka and I have a UL down Uniqlo but I reserve that for sleeping only because my bag is only rated -4C and I have to say I've been cold layered up in all of that for parts of some days when the wind is blowing strong and hard, a strong wind can reduce the value of your layers to zero if it blows hard enough

[Moondog55]

Funny thing is I'll be asking these questions again for my self in another year or two for my trip the Canada in winter.
Systems are going to be similar too I think but with a negative 30 degree difference so I may need some expert advice on Ultra light gear for -40C

[Moondog55]

Looking for a report and feedback when you take the trips now that we have snow on the ground most everywhere

[slparker]

Montane insulated pants are great for very cold weather. They are the same weight as my fleece pants but are windproof and insulated and cut for activity. They are too warm for xc-skiing/walking but perfect to pull on when stationary.

https://www.montane.co.uk/mens-c1/prism-pants-p60

[Moondog55]

Ditto for the OR pants I am trying to sell because I got fat

[Neo]

I ordered two pairs of ninja ice gloves through a tool shop at $14/pair. Went with xl when I'm usually an L.
Expected black but they are fluro yellow so no magic tricks with slight of hand!
Fit merino liners inside easily. A bit stiff but they are new. They are like the standard rubbery palm gardening glove and stretchy mesh back-of-hand with a fleecy insulation lining.

[Neo]

Picked up two polypro tops from anaconda on sale for $10 each, only a few colour options but blue/black stripe suits me.

Have resurrected my cheap snow boots from the garage, used them when I was mad keen on fishing (sitting by the river) a few winters ago.
Cut some 8mm ccf insoles and $4 kiwi anti-pong insoles to boot! Very comfy now.

[Moondog55]

Looking for some trip feedback now that we have snow Ubiq. I'm wondering how everything went and how the conditions were