Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

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Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Mark F » Mon 06 Aug, 2012 6:10 pm

I just received a Fire Maple 118 stove which is already one of the lightest invertable remote canister stoves on the market at 148 grams. The parts (burner and legs) are totally compatible with the Fire Maple 117T, a 98 gram remote canister stove that is not invertable. The hybrid (118T) comes in at 119 grams.

The photo shows 3 stoves, on the right the 118T hybrid, on the left the disassembled parts from the 118 and for comparison a 116T (49 grams).

P1000035.JPG

I have found it useful to understand where the weight is in a product; it is sometimes quite surprising where it is. In these stoves:
118 Legs/pot supports 47g, hose and preheat tube 69g, combustion tube 10g, burner head 22g
117T Legs/pot supports 30g, hose and preheat tube 48g, combustion tube 6g, burner head 14g

So there is a savings of about 40% converting from stainless steel to titanium.

The 118 came packaged with a aluminium windscreen (69g) approx 80cm x 15 cm with nicely folded edges. The stove only stands 60mm to the top of the pot supports so a 100mm high windscreen should be ample. One made of Ti foil weighs in at 28 grams. The maximum recommended pot weight is 3Kg so pots of up to 2 litres should cause no problems. The pot supports have a supported diameter of 150mm compared with 110mm on the 116T.

All up cost $50 for the 118 and $58 for the 117T, both purchased on eBay.

The proof of course will be in use but I have had excellent service from the 116T for solo use and the build quality of all three stoves is excellent. Smooth edges, parts fit closely and smoothly together etc. The 117 or 118 should be ideal for 2 to 4 people.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Mon 06 Aug, 2012 9:17 pm

I like it 8)

Suggest you send off these pics/data to Fire Maple. This is much more attractive proposition than either of those 2 current product offerings.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby corvus » Mon 06 Aug, 2012 10:17 pm

Really nice stove (dont need any more 15 is plenty)however still think the 100T even at 201gm it the better buy with its inbuilt windshield and sturdier IMHO legs and construction :)
Get thee behind me temptation though :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Mark F » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 9:02 pm

Thanks for your comment Strider - I believe this has been done/suggested before and fire maple has posted on backpacking light so they are monitoring the media.
Corvus, the 100T looks good but to me it stands a bit too high 110mm compared to 60 cm (and I am a gram weenie!)
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby ofuros » Wed 08 Aug, 2012 5:51 am

It's a great, lightweight, straight forward conversion, Mark F.
For those who don't want to buy the two stoves....even at 146g the stainless version isn't all that heavy. :wink:
I'm sure those gram counters amongst us will convert it though......we can't seem to help it. :lol:

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby frenchy_84 » Wed 08 Aug, 2012 7:44 am

So, double the price for a saving of 29grams....
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby ofuros » Wed 08 Aug, 2012 9:11 am

Frenchy_84, you could always sell/swap the stove without the pre-heat tube...8-)

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby hikin_jim » Mon 10 Sep, 2012 1:09 pm

Mark,

119g! For a remote canister stove capable of inverted operation? That's just absolutely wonderful. Brilliant work. Didn't you also do something like this with an MSR Superfly and a FMS-116T (Monatauk Gnat)?

I've read reports that the 118 has some flaring problems. Have you tried your 118 (or your Frankenstove 117/118) on low flame? Have you had any flaring problems at all?

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Mark F » Mon 10 Sep, 2012 5:22 pm

Hi Jim. Yes I did work out the blend of the 116T with the MSR Superfly which is now my mainstay for solo walking in Europe. Others worked out the 117T, 118 merge before I did. I decided that for pots above 1 litre I wanted a more stable stove and that meant a remote canister job which is why I did this merge.

As the the flaring problems, I haven't had the stove in cold enough conditions to need to invert it - only had it out once. I suspect, and I will be testing this soon, that the flaring issue comes from 2 possible sources. First - not allowing the stove to get hot enough before inverting the canister. This may mean that there is not enough pressure in the gas between the jet and the pre-heat tube to stop the liquid forcing its way to the jet. The other is that they had the valve too far open when they inverted (possibly lifting the canister as well) allowing a large quantity of liquid into the system which may cool the pre-heater below the required temperature. I would expect to crank down the flame as far as possible before inverting. As I say, these are suppositions and only a bit of testing will show whether they are valid.

Another thought just came to me. The pre-heat tube internal diameter may be a fraction large allowing a bit too much liquid into the system. A fine piece of bronze wire inserted inside the tube would overcome this problem.

I would also comment that I haven't ever seen anything definitive written on how and when to invert the canister - must check out a few manufacturers web sites.

To frenchy-84 - I still only paid $118 for a invertable remote canister stove and I expect I can get at least 1/2 that back by selling the 117 (no T) as ofuros suggests. Even without selling the 117 I am still well ahead on most other remote canister stoves by around $100 and 50 grams.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby hikingoz » Mon 10 Sep, 2012 7:52 pm

I've got a 118T setup as well. I justified the purchase after melting a hole in the tube on my 117T. Whoops :shock:

IMG_0371.JPG


The 116T is also a sweet stove.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby hikin_jim » Tue 11 Sep, 2012 4:00 am

hikingoz wrote:I justified the purchase after melting a hole in the tube on my 117T.
How did you get a hole in your fuel tube? That could be very very bad. :shock:

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby hikin_jim » Tue 11 Sep, 2012 4:04 am

Mark F wrote:I would also comment that I haven't ever seen anything definitive written on how and when to invert the canister - must check out a few manufacturers web sites.
Mark,

I suppose the "conventional wisdom" is that one should start up the stove, let it burn for a bit, and then invert the canister. I've had good success with starting the stove with the canister already inverted but starting with very low gas flow. I should mention that I removed all the hair from the back of the knuckles of my right hand while figuring out just how to do this. :lol:

I'll be very curious to hear about your results.

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby hikingoz » Tue 11 Sep, 2012 8:51 pm

hikin_jim wrote:
hikingoz wrote:I justified the purchase after melting a hole in the tube on my 117T.
How did you get a hole in your fuel tube? That could be very very bad. :shock:

HJ


The tube came in contact with the flame. The plastic inner tube melted. After that the gas slowly leaked out onto the bench and ignited.

I couldn't stop it leaking with electrical or fabric tape because the outside sheath is porous. The only way the stove worked was to have the cylinder and tube below the stove allowing the gas to fall away. The stove obviously wasted a lot of gas but rice doesn't taste too great uncooked so I just put up with it.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Mark F » Tue 11 Sep, 2012 9:19 pm

My usual expectation when you get occasional reports of problems is that "user error" is the reason and some people can't possibly blame themselves. Somebody unfamiliar with inverting the canister inverts it too soon and it flares - that is mentioned in the MSR WindPro II instructions that I read yesterday. 30 - 45 seconds can seem a very long time when you are desperate for a hot drink. I will have a play and singe a few hairs no doubt before drawing my own conclusions - I don't trust the opinions of one or two unknown sources on the internet.

I expect many of the reports about faulty Steripens had the same source - so many of them had only just purchased one and immediately failed! I know that after a few months of not using my Steripen, I have forgotten to wait until the led flashes before dipping it in the water - I now have the instructions in my battery container so I can check that I am doing it right!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby gbedford » Sun 14 Oct, 2012 7:58 pm

Dear Mark F,

Where did you buy both the 117 T and the 118?

I am very interested in what you did

Regards,
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Robert H » Sun 14 Oct, 2012 11:24 pm

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Mark F » Mon 15 Oct, 2012 7:43 am

Bought both on eBay. I notice that there are a couple of sellers wanting $90+ for the 117T compared to just over $50 from others - a bit like Australian retailers. Fire-Maple have also released a 1 litre heat exchanger pot (FMC-XK6) and a heater exchanger kettle. When I get my pot I will be able to determine just how much more efficient the heat exchanger is over a normal pot using a normal stove - should remove (or may be add to) some of the Jetboil mystique.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Joomy » Sat 25 May, 2013 12:08 pm

Awesome!! I just bought the 118 and the 117T in the hopes that this would work, so glad to see someone else has done it sucessfully!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby corvus » Sat 25 May, 2013 5:32 pm

No scientific testing however in the field my FMC-XK6 pot boiled quicker than my MSR 1lt Titan pot also better to simmer in and pick up owing to its insulated handles.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Joomy » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 12:24 am

Just tried this after receiving my 117t and 118 in the mail today. My 117t and 118t hybrid both exhibit an orange flame after about 30 seconds of burn time. Anyone else had this problem?
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Picaro » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 5:14 am

Mark F wrote:Bought both on eBay. I notice that there are a couple of sellers wanting $90+ for the 117T compared to just over $50 from others - a bit like Australian retailers. Fire-Maple have also released a 1 litre heat exchanger pot (FMC-XK6) and a heater exchanger kettle. When I get my pot I will be able to determine just how much more efficient the heat exchanger is over a normal pot using a normal stove - should remove (or may be add to) some of the Jetboil mystique.


I have the 117T and an Optimus Terra Weekender pot with heat exchanger. It gets 500ml to a rolling boil in 90seconds, in single digit temps. Only just enough time to get the tea and sugar in the cup !
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Mark F » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 9:46 am

Joomy - check the jets. It sounds as if there is some dirt in the system. The best thing to do is remove the sintered brass filter from the jets. It can be drilled out but a whack or two with a hammer onto a nail will usually break it up. You can read up on the issue at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... startat=40 Start with Roger Caffins post about 3 from the top (on page 3). Replace the filter with a very small piece of toilet paper. This makes the stove better for field maintenance if ever needed.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Joomy » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 11:16 am

Mark F wrote:Joomy - check the jets. It sounds as if there is some dirt in the system. The best thing to do is remove the sintered brass filter from the jets. It can be drilled out but a whack or two with a hammer onto a nail will usually break it up. You can read up on the issue at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... startat=40 Start with Roger Caffins post about 3 from the top (on page 3). Replace the filter with a very small piece of toilet paper. This makes the stove better for field maintenance if ever needed.


Hi Mark. Wouldn't dirt in the system result in an orange flame from the very start? My 117t burns blue and then turns orange, seemingly as the system heats up. Maybe something is vaporising inside the pre-heat tube?
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 12:15 pm

Joomy wrote:
Mark F wrote:Joomy - check the jets. It sounds as if there is some dirt in the system. The best thing to do is remove the sintered brass filter from the jets. It can be drilled out but a whack or two with a hammer onto a nail will usually break it up. You can read up on the issue at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... startat=40 Start with Roger Caffins post about 3 from the top (on page 3). Replace the filter with a very small piece of toilet paper. This makes the stove better for field maintenance if ever needed.


Hi Mark. Wouldn't dirt in the system result in an orange flame from the very start? My 117t burns blue and then turns orange, seemingly as the system heats up. Maybe something is vaporising inside the pre-heat tube?

The 117T doesn't have a pre-heat tube. But I do recall an issue with the 118 where the diameter of the pre-heat tube is too large and people were putting a length of copper wire inside it to reduce its volume.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Joomy » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 12:37 pm

Strider wrote:
Joomy wrote:
Mark F wrote:Joomy - check the jets. It sounds as if there is some dirt in the system. The best thing to do is remove the sintered brass filter from the jets. It can be drilled out but a whack or two with a hammer onto a nail will usually break it up. You can read up on the issue at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... startat=40 Start with Roger Caffins post about 3 from the top (on page 3). Replace the filter with a very small piece of toilet paper. This makes the stove better for field maintenance if ever needed.


Hi Mark. Wouldn't dirt in the system result in an orange flame from the very start? My 117t burns blue and then turns orange, seemingly as the system heats up. Maybe something is vaporising inside the pre-heat tube?

The 117T doesn't have a pre-heat tube. But I do recall an issue with the 118 where the diameter of the pre-heat tube is too large and people were putting a length of copper wire inside it to reduce its volume.


Err yes! I have been mixing the two up all day. I have both, but it is the 118 that has the issue. I tried to get the jet off but failed and ended up mangling the brass. I think I'll try and return it for a refund, maybe order a new one and see if it has the same issue...
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 12:51 pm

Joomy wrote:I tried to get the jet off but failed and ended up mangling the brass.

Beware of shifters!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Rico » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 5:37 pm

I've been two weeks ago to the Fire Maple factory in China, and I was pleasantly surprised to see such a young team at work. The owner is only 31 and started from zero over 10 years ago, and the average age in the design department is around 25. Nothing can be further from the image of the Chinese sweat shop most people may imagine than what I've seen there, what I've seen is a modern factory with a nice and fresh environment.
Most of their stoves come from the mind of their head designer. I asked him why they don't have a T-118 titanium, and he said that I can order it if I like. Of course we are talking about thousand of pieces, but I agree that it is a brilliant setup. What do you think?

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby corvus » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 10:31 pm

Nice Feedback Rico
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Rico » Sun 09 Jun, 2013 1:17 am

corvus wrote:Nice Feedback Rico


If you think that something can be improved in their products let me know and I'll happily pass it on. After two visits I am considered a good friend now (in Chinese culture this means that I got twice blindly drunk with the management playing their weird but addictive dice game at the pub, and I keep losing!) and they told me that they don't get much feedbacks from outside China. They were really surprised that their products are sold on eBay directly from China for example, and what you buy there is the production they make for the chinese domestic market that someone sells on the side... There is nothing wrong with it, the product is apparently identical to the export quality apart from the instruction booklet, and half of all they make is sold domestically, there is a growing interest in China for outdoor activities.

The world is changing for the better...
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Sun 09 Jun, 2013 9:01 am

Woops!
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