Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Fri 19 Jul, 2013 6:43 pm

Franco wrote:good price..
Well it can't be all that expensive to make all those home made bits, so here is an opportunity for someone like you to make a nice little profit.
You've lost me with this one...
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby KANANGRABOYD » Fri 19 Jul, 2013 6:46 pm

Franco wrote:"Which is halfway to buying one of these stoves!"

Not exactly.
Roger has come up with two sub 90g winter (liquid feed) stoves.
One has the FMS 116T head , the other (the one that will be in production) has the FMS 300T burner head.
The rest of the stove (legs,jet,heat exchanger,needle valve,heat shunt) is a custom Roger Caffin job.
I liked the weight and stored size as well as the way they are built enough to order one.
As a bonus it can use the standard Lindal valve as well as the Campingaz and the soon to be forgotten Powermax.
Image

Franco,
I love your gear porn.
Stoves/tents/battery packs/headlamps et al ..... you always have a photo......even your collection of pillows! ( I to be honest have 7 different pillows!).
But your Cat is the best!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Franco » Fri 19 Jul, 2013 8:11 pm

Strider
By "you" I meant anyone that wants to have a go.
However I would suggest to read those 3 BPL articles very carefully first because in the end it is a bit more complicated than it looks.

Kanangraboyd
That stove group shot is from BPL.
They are some of prototypes Roger made using the 116T heads . (he made 10)
I do have a few stoves but not 2 of the same type.
As I was typing that I remembered that I have a couple in 2 or 3 , just alcohol stoves...
Both of my cats died . One was 18.5 the other was 21 plus.
So no more cats in my video clips.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 10:11 am

I've been having problems with my 117T leaking gas from the on/off valve. I ended up emailing Roger Caffin and he was very helpful but couldn't figure out what the problem was. I thought I'd fixed it with the generous application of silicone grease to the o-rings but it only stays fixed for a very short duration. I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 118 (Chinese New Year sale, 15% off) as a replacement (using the legs of my 117T) but I'm a little reluctant, fearing the same sort of issue happening again.

They're so cheap that the money isn't really the issue - I just don't want to create more waste by buying cheap stuff that doesn't last! My Whisperlite is still going strong after many many years...

Maybe I've just been very unlucky? Has anyone else had similar issues? Care to allay my fears?
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby corvus » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:52 pm

Have you tried Silicone O rings ?
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 9:39 pm

Have you tried Silicone O rings ?


As far as I could tell there wasn't anything wrong with the o-rings (although perhaps I was wrong about that after all - I can't imagine what else the problem could be). And it sounds quite tricky to source the right size replacements - even Roger thought it would be hard.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Nuts » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 10:01 pm

Are you sure it is leaking from the valve? They can 'flog out' in the thread / canister connect and leak from the loose seal, and with a lot of use (maybe over-tightening?), eventually pop apart.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 7:46 pm

Yep, definitely from the valve. I've checked in water and can see the bubbles flowing out.

I quite enjoyed using my old Whisperlite on the weekend though, epecially the much cheaper fuel! The weight not so much...
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 7:47 pm

Can you fit another fuel line from another stove?

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 11:48 am

Can you fit another fuel line from another stove?


Not sure that I'm handy enough for that sort of playing around! Anyway, unlike some on the forum I don't have a massive library of stoves to play with. Just the Whisperlite, the leaky 117T and the 118 in the post, due to arrive soon.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby scoha » Tue 07 Feb, 2017 8:50 pm

Ive had the same experience with my 117T - the double o-rings on the spindle valve ruptured. I got in touch with UK Ultralight where I bought it and they were fantastic - just replaced it. Im trying now to source replacement o-rings so I can have two stoves! I understand via the Russian designers they are 6.3mm OD but havent yet laid my hands on any.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Thu 30 Mar, 2017 8:42 am

ve had the same experience with my 117T - the double o-rings on the spindle valve ruptured. I got in touch with UK Ultralight where I bought it and they were fantastic - just replaced it. Im trying now to source replacement o-rings so I can have two stoves! I understand via the Russian designers they are 6.3mm OD but havent yet laid my hands on any.


If you track them down can you let me know? I haven't had such great customer service. I bought mine from Fasttech. They wouldn't help because there was only a 6 month warranty on the product. Fair enough I thought. But then I realised that all Fire Maple products have a 3 year warranty! Despite this, no help from either Fasttech or Fire Maple.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Fri 31 Mar, 2017 9:08 am

After my attempts at fixing my 117T failed I decided to order a 118 and do the merge. The 118 arrived a few weeks ago. I tried it out and it worked fine. Then I replaced the legs and burner head with the titanium ones from the 117T. I tried it again and it worked fine.

Last weekend I went on an overnighter and took the new "118T" with me. I lit it to prepare dinner. It started up fine (with canister upright) but then the flame got really weak and it would only keep burning if I inverted the canister. Even then it was a fairly weak flame. Some rain forced me into the tent briefly, putting dinner on hold. When I came back to it it was a struggle to light the stove. I unscrewed the canister, played around with things, and eventually it lit, but only with a weak flame, and only with the canister inverted. The next morning it was also a struggle to get water boiled. The canister was a brand new MSR canister.

I played around some more once I got it home. It lit okay, then struggled. I tried again yesterday morning and it wouldn't light at all. I tried again this morning. It lit but only stayed alight for a few seconds before dying, even with the canister inverted. I tried with the original burner head. No difference. I tried with another gas canister (an almost empty Snowpeak canister) and it worked fine, both with canister upright and inverted!

I connected my leaky 117T to the MSR canister and opened the valve. Gas was flowing (I didn't light it because of its leakiness, but it was definitely a normal gas flow).

So, do I have a dodgy canister or a (another) dodgy stove? Are dodgy canisters even a thing?

Maybe I'm doing something completely wrong - I don't really know much about how inverted canister stoves are supposed to be used and my Googling hasn't taught me much. I gather you're meant to light it with the canister upright, then after some time invert it? But in normal, mild conditions you should be able to use it with the canister upright and not invert it?

Any help appreciated - I'm not having much luck with FireMaple! I'm planning to use this stove on some hikes in Peru in a couple of months and need to have confidence that it works!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 31 Mar, 2017 9:16 am

Not any experience here but do you have a blockage in the hose itself? Have you tried blowing though it? You should be able to blow though any fuel hose fairly easily but even a small bit of dirt/fibre or gunge can block a small diametre flexible hose
I have to clean the flexible hose from my XGK-EX more often than the older rigid connector on the original X-GK
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Fri 31 Mar, 2017 10:03 am

You might be on to something Moondog! I gave it a quick blow (sounds interesting) and then it worked. I don't understand though why it worked with the other canister. I'm going to have to try it a few more times before I'm convinced it's all good though!

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Fri 31 Mar, 2017 2:48 pm

You might be on to something Moondog! I gave it a quick blow (sounds interesting) and then it worked. I don't understand though why it worked with the other canister. I'm going to have to try it a few more times before I'm convinced it's all good though!


But on the next attempt it was back to only just lighting and then needing to be inverted to keep burning...
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 31 Mar, 2017 3:11 pm

Someimes I have to wash mine in hot water heavy on the detergent then dry and rinse in spirits, after using bush diesel for instance
have you ried washing
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Fri 31 Mar, 2017 5:45 pm

Nope, haven't tried washing. I can't imagine it needs it though, given it's brand new. And it still works fine on the other canister. It's bizarre!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 31 Mar, 2017 5:55 pm

Dud valvle in the new canister? Take it back and ask the shop to test it
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 10:43 am

Have you ever had a dud valve before? I guess it's possible. It's a shame my other canister stove is leaking so I can't do a proper side by side comparison. I have managed to temporarily stop the leaking before with silicone grease so I'll try that again and see if I can compare.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 11:50 am

Sounds like an issue with the pin length in the stove connection not depressing the Lindal valve properly in some canisters. The Kovea Superlight is well known for this issue so maybe Google those symptoms and compare with yours.

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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 3:40 pm

Sounds like an issue with the pin length in the stove connection not depressing the Lindal valve properly in some canisters. The Kovea Superlight is well known for this issue so maybe Google those symptoms and compare with yours.


Interesting. I've only had a quick look but will look more when I have time.

I greased up my leaky 117T and connected it to the problematic canister. It worked fine (well, it leaked a bit, but gas came through). So I think the problem must be with the stove. I've written to the retailer but not getting my hopes up. Their customer service was terrible with the 117T - I shouldn't have bought from them again!

I'm a bit tempted just to give up on Fire Maple and order a Kovea Spider!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Strider » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 7:35 pm

Drew wrote:I'm a bit tempted just to give up on Fire Maple and order a Kovea Spider!

It's quite a bit heavier (170g) but a great stove. Packs down small enough to fit inside a 1L pot with a 230g canister.


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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 2:30 pm

50gm ain't so much if it's more reliable. Seems that plenty of people are happy with their Fire Maples but I'm a little reluctant to rely on it in the high Andes where there'll be no firewood for backup and it'll be *&%$#! cold! Anyway, I'll see how I go with the customer service.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Fri 07 Apr, 2017 9:39 pm

Update on this: After sending an angry email to FireMaple I got a reply offering to send me new valves for both my 117T and my 118, and some spare o-rings! I was just about to give up on Fire Maple and order a Kovea Spider but this might change my mind. With the new parts I should have 3 working valves for my two stoves, so I can take one as a spare for piece of mind.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:24 am

Update on this: After sending an angry email to FireMaple I got a reply offering to send me new valves for both my 117T and my 118, and some spare o-rings! I was just about to give up on Fire Maple and order a Kovea Spider but this might change my mind. With the new parts I should have 3 working valves for my two stoves, so I can take one as a spare for piece of mind.


With new valves attached both stoves work as they should. Now the only question is whether I make my lightweight stove much less lightweight by taking along a spare valve (doesn't weigh much) and an 8mm spanner (quite heavy - unless I find an ultralight titanium one somewhere out there!) for piece of mind.
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:28 am

Doesn't one of the titanium spoons come with hex spanner holes in the handles?
Or does it need to be open ended not a ring spanner?
an open ended 8mm won't weigh that much anyway
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Drew » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:40 am

Yeah, needs to be open ended. You're right a spanner doesn't weigh that much (25gm for the one I have), but in the context of a 119gm stove it's quite a lot!
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 11:20 am

Simple Cut the thing down as small as will be practical
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Re: Fire Maple 117T and 118 merge

Postby Mark F » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 12:56 pm

I cut a spanner into the hole on my S2S aluminium spoon - a negative weight gain for functionality. I also carry a set of O rings for my stove and a bit of very thin wire for cleaning the jet - total weight 1 gram.

One thing I always do to a new stove is to pull it down and check the internal cleanliness, put a small circle of coffee filter paper under the jet as a filter (per Roger Caffin) then reassemble with only enough force so that the stove including jet can be easily dismantled in the field. Some jets are unbelievably tight.
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