Snow season Day touring Theoretical Daypack contents thread

[andrewa]

If you've got gloves, you don't need the spondiliaccles . If you have a billy, why take a cup? My emergency daypack stove is a Kovea titanium whatever , and a small gas canister, which all fit nicely in a 750-800m billy/cup.

A

[Moondog55]

I find that when melting snow I need to start small and work up [ I am making the assumption I will not have liquid water available at all] and a metal cup I find best for adding snow.
I can drink while melting more snow too
Experience in similar situations is the reason for the grippers, my hands shake when cold and loose fine motor control and last season I melted a glove when melting snow and wanted to avoid a repeat

[Moondog55]

Is this a fair price and has anyone purchased from the seller ?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221553012887 ... 26_rdc%3D1

[Bluegum Mic]

MD what about this from ricco at adventure friends. I've bought quite a bit from him and he's fantastic. In fact I've been after a small pot for day walks and now he stocks this I'm getting one =D
http://adventurefriends.com.au/technica ... l-with-lid

[Bluegum Mic]

Plus use the code for bushwalk oz members for 10% off. From memory its bushwalk. Cant recall if its upper or lower case though

[Moondog55]

I looked at those, but I want something that a small gas canister fits inside. I have a Titan 850 kettle but I want to keep that in my normal kit.
I went shopping today and found all these sachets of coffee mix which remove the hassle of lots of little packets, taste like something resembling Caterers Blend but drinkable in a pinch. I didn't want to wait for Cecile to come home from the USA to get this together but much more choice over there; including these

http://toaksoutdoor.com/titanium900mlpot115.aspx

http://toaksoutdoor.com/titanium550mlpot.aspx

[Moondog55]

Until I started looking I did not realise how hard it was to get space saver cups here, I don't have a problem with the handles on my LW SS cups except when trying [ as here] to save spave and minimise bulk

[Moondog55]

If you've got gloves, you don't need the spondiliaccles . If you have a billy, why take a cup? My emergency daypack stove is a Kovea titanium whatever , and a small gas canister, which all fit nicely in a 750-800m billy/cup.

A

Andrew I've been mulling this over; I think it all comes down to personal comfort levels, mental comfort levels. I think I need them for the medical reasons I stated and adding them makes me more comfortable that I could cope if I needed to.
A lot of this sort of planning is psychological

[cjhfield]

Surviving in the cold is all about keeping warm and preventing hypothermia. A full set of waterproofs, 2 layers on the legs and 3 or 4 on the top combined with a hat and gloves and you will survive. You may not be comfortable but you will survive. Extra food, stoves, mats all sound a bit OTT to me. Much better to have a 100% reliable way of starting a fire. Caught out in the snow in Australia you retreat to below the snow line. The gums burn really well. You need a good fire starter like rubber strips or a small bag of cotton balls impregnated with petroleum jelly. You need some practice starting fires in adverse conditions ( like Tasmania or New Zealand)- where to collect drier twigs and how to carefully construct a fire. You can build a platform of logs to put the fire on. I always carry a lighter but I don't like to rely on them as they tend to fail if they get wet. Some waterproof matches double bagged. A fire keeps you warm no matter how long you are stuck even if you are wet through. It makes smoke so they can find you. A fire gives you something to do through the night. I guess a reliable waterproof LED torch would be worth it's weight also.

Just my 2č.

Chris

[climberman]

Surviving in the cold is all about keeping warm and preventing hypothermia. A full set of waterproofs, 2 layers on the legs and 3 or 4 on the top combined with a hat and gloves and you will survive. You may not be comfortable but you will survive. Extra food, stoves, mats all sound a bit OTT to me. Much better to have a 100% reliable way of starting a fire. Caught out in the snow in Australia you retreat to below the snow line. The gums burn really well. You need a good fire starter like rubber strips or a small bag of cotton balls impregnated with petroleum jelly. You need some practice starting fires in adverse conditions ( like Tasmania or New Zealand)- where to collect drier twigs and how to carefully construct a fire. You can build a platform of logs to put the fire on. I always carry a lighter but I don't like to rely on them as they tend to fail if they get wet. Some waterproof matches double bagged. A fire keeps you warm no matter how long you are stuck even if you are wet through. It makes smoke so they can find you. A fire gives you something to do through the night. I guess a reliable waterproof LED torch would be worth it's weight also.

Just my 2č.

Chris

I cannot imagine having to retreat to below the snow line in midwinter during a whiteout when on Carruthers or the like. Your scenario I find completely impractical for the majority of my snow travel experiences in NSW.

[Strider]

Imagine retreating to below the snowline if on the central plateau in Tas. It could take weeks!

[Moondog55]

I'm a very good bushman but there are times when lighting a fire is simply impossible. Bogong in a storm for instance and in a whiteout it is simply not possible to move safely.
Sorry Chris; but your $0.02 sounds like you have never actually been stuck in a bad Alpine snowstorm away from your tent.
Hope for the best but pack for the worst has usually been my plan of action

[icefest]

I suspect he means retreat below the treeline. Though I doubt that that'll be enough if you are stuck on Alice Rawson Peak.

[cjhfield]

Yes I meant retreat below the tree line. I have dug many snow caves in the NSW Alps and spent a lot of time skiing those hills. This is a thread about what I would take for a day ski. I always take the makings of a fire. In my opinion it can save your life. IMHO it would be more useful than a stove. But each to their own. If you are going to try and survive above the tree line in exposed country then I think you're going to need a snow shovel. And a bit of luck

Chris

[Moondog55]

Agree on the snow shovel, always have the fire kit with me but I disagree on the need for a stove but we all have different experiences that colour our gear choices.

Chris I am now interested in what 2 clothing layers you would wear on your legs to be able to sleep for a couple of hours in -12C. My own bivvy pants would only work inside my LW sleeping bag and shell at that temperature and that assumes over my normal long-johns and tracky bottoms.
I'm also now very interested in what you would carry when you day tour on the Main Range.
Ted

[cjhfield]

A couple of real world examples. Think whether a nice cup of tea or the possibility of lighting a fire would have changed these outcomes. First the man I just know as Simon Crean's brother who went for a day ski from Charlotte Pass and didn't come back. His body was rather gruesomely found years later on the Thredbo River not too far from the Thredbo Road. He had descended through the forest maybe 700 metres of elevation loss. Once in the trees and out of the wind if he had the makings of a fire he could have remained warm.

Second the Canadian - Indian student who on a rather bleak day set off to walk from Charlotte Pass to Mount Townsend. He was not well equipped but was fit and strong. He is thought to have become lost after leaving Townsend presumably in poor visibility and headed down the Western Face towards the Geehi. His body has never been found despite very extensive searches of the upper slopes. Of course the Forrest is all but impossible to search. Particularly as his equipment was not ideal and he would have been wet and losing heat a fire in the forest could have changed things.

This is how people die in our mountains. They don't die of dehydration or starvation. They die of heat loss. I have skied from Kiandra to Kosi, out onto the Kerries and Gray Mares, over Townsend and the Abbotts, through the Ramsheads and down to Dead Horse Gap and South through the Cascades. In the vast vast majority of that area a retreat to the tree line and lighting a fire is a viable survival strategy. Possibly the only viable survival strategy at times. Both of the people above managed to get out of the exposed peaks and get well into the trees. So don't tell me it's not realistic.

When I stared walking in the 70's with the Hobart Walking Club it was expected you carried fire starting equipment on your person. In your pack was not thought to be safe enough. Good advice I reckon.

Chris

[icefest]

To be honest, I'd say both of those cases were more due to being lost.

Looking back at the deaths in the high country - I can count eight - four got lost in the high country and one (maybe two) of these made it to a copse of trees. Fire might have saved one or two, but lighting a fire in 100km/h wind is difficult however you do it. A GPS (and knowing how to use it) would have saved three or maybe four.
(Hayes, Seaman, Friend, Pincini, Beardsmore bros, Crean, Srawn)
There's a heap of other near misses that would have been prevented with better navigational aids.

The thing with a gas stove though is that a gas stove is easier to light than a fire; and the gas stove - used carefully - can be used to light a fire.

I agree with you though Chis, being able to light a fire is important in most situations.

[Moondog55]

Chris I never said it wasn't often a viable tactic, my own experience tho says that it isn't always possible.
My original query was on pack contents. My "Survival" kit is in my bumbag and always with me and that contains my 10+ essentials of which an extensive fire kit is part. I also have a small duplicate in my breast pocket [ I have one in each jacket and parka as well so I never forget] but as I stated earlier being able to light a fire isn't always possible, even for experienced people.
I've been exhausted; tired, cold, wet and hungry too many times not to take note of my own experience. I've also taken instruction and advice from people with much greater knowledge than myself in asking that initial question. The young Mr Crean died of exposure because he broke both ankles on a hidden horizontal sapling [ I imagine the initial pain and shock would have rendered him semi conscious and subject to rapid heat loss due to the minimal clothing worn when skiing hard] your other example was a candidate for the Darwin Award
While I totally agree on hypothermia being the leading cause of death in our hills my measures to avoid it are different to yours, and I'm no longer as fit as I was.
Nice cup of tea is there for more than one reason.
Primary response to exposure is getting out of the wind

[Moondog55]

I ordered a UL Titanium cup with folding handles from TOAKS and it hasn't arrived; I was about to write an email querying delivery time when I opened an email from that company.
It seems my order [ even tho addressed correctly] was sent to AUSTRIA by the USPS
Another 2 weeks wait until it gets here

[icefest]

I ordered a UL Titanium cup with folding handles from TOAKS and it hasn't arrived; I was about to write an email querying delivery time when I opened an email from that company.
It seems my order [ even tho addressed correctly] was sent to AUSTRIA by the USPS
Another 2 weeks wait until it gets here

That's familiar.

I used to live in Mt Gambier, SA.
Our parcels would go on a sidetrip to The Gambia or South Africa every now and then....

[Moondog55]

Maybe it's time we had a country code as well as the spelled out country name, easy to do if we used the pre-existing phone system country code

[north-north-west]

I ordered a UL Titanium cup with folding handles from TOAKS and it hasn't arrived; I was about to write an email querying delivery time when I opened an email from that company.
It seems my order [ even tho addressed correctly] was sent to AUSTRIA by the USPS
Another 2 weeks wait until it gets here

That's familiar.

I used to live in Mt Gambier, SA.
Our parcels would go on a sidetrip to The Gambia....

Peter Norman told me once that that had happened to something he and Jenny ordered, but I always thought he was putting me on.

[Moondog55]

I just bought a titanium pot with handles so I can now leave the spondonicles out.
You can fit quite a bit if stuff into a litre and a half if you are prepared to squoosh

[Moondog55]

Not much change
Gone a little lighter with the aluminium billy being replaced with a TOAKS titanium one saving a few grams
Synthetic sleeping bag replaced with the double layer down and 60GSM synthetic half bag
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=19430&start=60
and the old Moss tarp being put back in to replace the old Dutch army poncho saving another 300 grams on each item
Warm top layers are now the Patagonia R1 pullover with hood and the matching Nanopuff bivvy pullover and if I can lose some weight still the OR Neoplume pants if they don't sell

[Moondog55]

Hey all
It is the start of the 2017 ski season so
Bump
My packed gear hasn't changed but only because I can't ski this season. For next season the big change will be swapping out the UL half bag from Mike and the thinsulate bag combo with the old J&H Ultra Flouro; seeing as I can't find a buyer for it I'll make use of it myself
Mikes bag then goes to a tadpole as a liner for the Kathmandu Orb

[Neo]

MD you might be able to swap out that half bag to me. I got a nice price on an STS micro III but it's comfort 4 limit -2 so not quite enough if I get serious about tenting it in winter.

[Moondog55]

Well it is light, my other half bag will not fit inside the Micro111so no point pointing you in that direction
PM me and we can talk about it, how tall are you?