Snow season Day touring Theoretical Daypack contents thread

[Moondog55]

I know we all have opinions on this but I'm throwing open the day pack to see what gets chucked in there by whom.

How big is a minimum? My own is 40 litres
How much survival gear? Too much and you move too slow and that may get you caught out; How cold do you plan for and how much gear do you need to be warm enough to get some recuperative rest? I have my little summer Thinsulate bag which has been Nikwaxed and is very water resistant and the new down halfbag fits inside and I feel that combination is good enough to minus 12C;
What's more important a shovel or a tent? I make the assumption that a minimum bivvysac and a foam pad is the absolute minimum.
While I plan to carry a small stove [ pocket rocket ] what do others think? Thermos ?
All the usual stuff; head-torch, glowstix, storm parka The 10 essentials plus
How much EXTRA clothing do YOU carry in winter?

[andrewa]

Ill preface this by saying that I normally ski in some event or goretex pants over longjohns, and a merino top, so day pack contains waterproof jkt, down jacket, Montbell thermawrap pants, black diamond epic bivvy bag, 9x6' tarp, crampons, torch, food, skins, map, compass etc. Daypack has foam sheet in back, so use this as a sit mat. Don't normally carry shovel, as would use skis if needed. Normally ski Bogong, so crampons are a necessity if it ices up, and the aluminium 12 pointers I got recently are lighter and better than the old instep ones I've had for years. A worst, I've got a layer of warm clothing, a bivvy bag, and a tarp, and could shelter presumably happily overnight if needed. Don't pack a stove. Might be nice, but I've never been caught out over 30yrs on Bogong, so I figure it can stay with tent.

A

[Moondog55]

I have a lightweight shovel coming, so I am tossing up between the Megamid and a snow trench as my basic survival shelter, my past experience tells me a mid is better but my old Megamid is now comparatively heavy. I can practice the snow trench at basecamp as I have a S2S poncho tarp that could be used a the trench roof, although it isn't always possible to find snow deep enough to dig a decent trench.
#1 son has my down jumper and won't give it back so I have the DAS, an uberlite down jumper would be nice in addition, warmth isn't the problem is it? Bulk and weight are and my gear is very much at the heavier end of the spectrum

[Moondog55]

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.ph ... 8&gen_cd=1

Anybody used or tried it on for size? looks OK for the important core area

[climberman]

Moondog the iclimb.co.nz guys used to do the montbell gear and have some remaining stock. Email them and check what they have in the thermawrap and down stakes.

[wayno]

iv'e got the full jacket, its very thin, for me its too thin to use for winter in snow, not warm enough.
torpedo7 are selling mont bell now
i'm similar to andrewa, i have a fleece vest and jacket as well.
for down i have a montbell alpine down jacket, not the light version, it has 60gm more down than the light version and box wall construction, might sound like its big but, still packs down small., only seen it selling on the japanese online store... but still nothing wrong with the alpine light jacket either, just not as warm.
look at the forecast and work out what you will need to stay warm in those conditions if you can't move...

[Moondog55]

Wayno as I carry the DAS belay parka would the lightweight be a decent insulating layer ?

I'm looking at a down layer to get the carried weight down a bit assuming I can fund the purchase
I'm waiting on a reply to the email I just sent iclimb as their website only accepts sales within NZ. If cash is too tight then I just add another fleece layer [ or one of my many lightweight woollen jumpers] but the decision between belay pants or LW sleeping bag is harder as the temptation is to take both

I really must get out the scales and start weighing stuff before I over pack again but my winter gear is in the roof space so I need to get the ladder

[wayno]

i'd go for something more like the alpine light, worth it for the extra 60 grams of down, way warmer only still light and packs down well put anything over the ultralights and what little loft there is will be crushed, they are high loft down and won't resist much compression on them... the alpine light is not an uncommon jacket, you should be ale to find one for a good price somewhere online.
or theres the highland jacket, its a lower loft jacket, not sure how well it packs down...

http://www.torpedo7.com.au/torpedo7/cat ... Group=home

[Moondog55]

I'm finding online comparison a little difficult. it's 20 years+ since I needed to buy a down garment
How do the Frost smoke and the Alpine light compare in warmth and functionality? The weight and price difference seems small but the packed size is different as the Frost smoke is much longer

[wayno]

alpine light has 20gm more down, frost smoke reinforced areas and packs down 6cm longer in the stuff sack

[Moondog55]

iclimb have an XL left in the lightweight montbell, is $200- a good price? That's really pushing the budget if it is. my last lightweight down garment was the J&H Dumper how does the light MontBell compare? just so I know what to expect if I do buy it

[wayno]

do you mean the light alpine? have any specs on the dumper? i'm not familiar with it

[Moondog55]

Wayno the J&H Dumper hasn't been made for over 20 years but it was my first [ and only] lightweight down garment. It's been so long since I lost it to my son I don't remember how much it weighed but it packed into a 500ml stuff sac and was the warmth equivalent of a 300 fleece jumper
iclimb NZ do have some remaining stock of the UL in Mens XL the website says it packs down to 1 litre and weighs about 225 grams in a medium
http://www.iclimb.co.nz/#!product/prd1/ ... -mens---xl

I do have a very warm [ and therefore very heavy] down parka but that it just a bit too warm and ~1200grams
I was thinking of using the lightweight down as a replacement for a 200weight fleece or the mohair jumper I was going to pack for day touring so using as a midlayer under a Climasheild jacket; although I do realise it may compress a little

[wayno]

ok, trying to give you an idea here of the cross section of how puffy it is/isn't
there is no drawcord or elastic on the waist, elastic writs cuffs.
they retail for $150 in the US

[wayno]

another aspect of the loft, and packed size

[Moondog55]

OK
Thanx for those pictures it gives me a much better idea of what the garment is like. it looks to me more like a down shirt than down jacket; would that be your take? As MB are reputedly a very small cut perhaps I should give it a miss as I'm on the larger side of XL even when I'm at my fighting weight

[wayno]

yes i'd say more like a shirt.... mont bell sizes differently for region... asian sizing is small. american sizing sizes up one size from the asian sizes i believe... mine is asian sized and is a Large....
as i said before something like the alpine light is more of a jacket, the ultralight really is for ultralight nuts
i prefer being toasty warm rather than saving a hundred and fifty grams for the sake of the weight saving...
it is probably no warmer than a wind fleece... or a thin primaloft jacket

[Moondog55]

Great information
I'll save the money and spend it on port instead, for that level of warmth I'll use what I have and also at that warmth level I do prefer pull-overs like the Nanopuff. A new windshirt then!
Now if only I can find my stash of EPIC

[Moondog55]

Bringing this back to the top after this years skiing.
Not that I did any real touring as I hated to waste a lift seasons pass.
I have decided a storm shelter that will allow you to melt snow boil a cuppa is of more value than a bivvy-sac and that a means of doing so without lighting a fire is an essential not a luxury.
I just weighed my smallest aluminium billy [ 1500ml] and at 174 grams including 2 PE bread bags it hardly seems worthwhile buying a titanium one [ although a cup may be in the offing] so the next item is the stove, for emergency use the smallest and lightest so I don't leave it behind and this probably means the Firemaple FMS300T as recommended although anything will be better than not having one. Emergency use means the smallest gas cylinder but even those give 30 minutes burn time.
A pair of LW insulated pants weigh about the same as a pair of Goretex overpants so I have decided on these
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/mens/ ... pants.html
Add in the down half bag and a lightweight down jumper plus a warmer top and that shloud do but the total weight is starting to creep over that magic 8 kilos when you add a liter+ of water and an additional 5000 kilojoules

[icefest]

Chuck in a piece of closed cell foam to rest the canister on while you cook. With a non-remote feed stove it's important to keep the canister warm - especially at the end.

[Moondog55]

Chuck in a piece of closed cell foam to rest the canister on while you cook. With a non-remote feed stove it's important to keep the canister warm - especially at the end.

Noted, also the CCF pad is to be glued to something stiff like 3mm ply and round so it fits inside the billy lid; [120mm diameter] or inside the stuff sack 130mm diameter

[icefest]

You could make a reflextixx pot cozy that can double as a canister insulator when boiling. Just store it on the mug.

[jjoz58]

Just a question - How would you rate the Montbell Frost Smoke Jacket with hood?

[Moondog55]

Just a question - How would you rate the Montbell Frost Smoke Jacket with hood?

I don't own, although I have positive things to say about the Uniqlo I bought for $79- during the sale as a LW midlayer when not moving
The Uniqlo is about the same as the shirt Wayno posted pix of

[Moondog55]

Just purchased a Firemaple 300T via eBay, also a titanium spork and LW plastic base from the same seller $70- all up including snail-mail postage.
I think the base @20 grams is worthwhile for stability with the 100 gram gas
I 'spose I really now need to look a t a new rucksac as my Tour-Jour is getting old and it does weigh 2.5kilos but it has such wonderful balance. I can see ?? a big DIY project coming up using the old pack as a pattern ??

[Giddy_up]

Looks like a good purchase MD. On the backpack, there are some good strong light fabrics out there now, its just knowing how to attach them together.

Your US trip could be a revelation as well, as there are some good cottage manufacturers in the region your heading. You might just get what your looking for over there.

[Moondog55]

I'll never be an Ultralighter but it makes real sense to always buy lighter and stronger if the cost is reasonable
I'll need to get myself a short Ridge-Rest for the kit too but no point in buying that OS
Main reason for going as light as I can with the day pack is so I'm not tempted to leave anything out

[Giddy_up]

Moondog, have a look at the packs in the top line of this link

http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/ul ... packs.html

You made comment about my pack at camp in PV and these are the guys that made that. Its still a few $$$ but they just might suit you, especially the first one "the summit pack". If you don't have a freight component to add, they are not that bad and you never know what Santa could bring when your over there.

[Moondog55]

I like the 2400 IcePack but not the price LOL
I do need 40 liters tho, I tried a 30 liter pack and couldn't get my gear and a mat inside it

[Moondog55]

Been doing some weighing
Winter billycan kit

1.5 litre Aluminium billy 168 grams
Aluminium flashing windshield 46 grams
Nylon stuff sack with PE bread bags 30grams
BIC mini butane lighter, ferrocerium rod and striker in zip-lock bag 54 grams
LW Trangia billy lifter 35 grams
S2S Lexan spork with string 10 grams
Fire Maple FMS 300-T 55 grams
100 gram Jetpower gas canister 190 grams
Total for non food items = 588 [ 600 nominal] grams
Cup not yet included but ~ 55 grams if I buy a medium titanium mug
This leaves me ~ 300-/-350 grams for emergency food
Assuming I don't want to go over that magic 1 kilo limit I set myself. If the 3 * 50g chocolate bars actually weigh 168 due to packaging then I have 180 grams to pack tea bags, sugar and coffee/hot chockolate
This UL stuff can be a little addictive; I even drilled out the holes in the Trangia handle to save 9 grams. Who would have thought that a PE bread bag weighs ~ 5 grams?