Not Under 6 kg Pack

[corvus]

G'day ,
As promised I weighed EVERYTHING in my pack on my recent 4 day 3night Summer Walk in Tassie.

PACK -WE Karijini 90lt 3100g
PACK LINER STS large 346g
TENT- MP Microlite with all bags 1 extra peg and dyneema guys and Tyvek footprint 1863g
SLEEPING BAG & sack Pure and Dry 860 loft WP Shell -5 937g
LINER Silk & bag 140g
SLEEPING MAT Prolite 4 Reg 700g
TOTAL 7086g
ESSENTIAL CLOTHES
RAIN JACKET Gore Tex 702g
OVER PANTS Hydronaut 406g
BEANIE Fleece 49g
GLOVES Poly prop 38g
JACKET Snuggy Advance 583g
TOTAL 1778g
SPARE CLOTHES
FLEECE PANTS Polaretech 100 334g
JOCKS Thermal Poly Prop 3/4 95g
SOX x 2 pair 127g
LS COTTON SHIRT (for scrub and thick bush) 275g
SPARE SHORTS 145g
THERMAL LONG JOHNS 155g
STUFF SACK 23g
CROCKS 269g
TOTAL 1423g
FIRST AID KIT 524g
TOILET KIT
I POOD (trowel) 107g
SANITIZER 61g
TP 32g
FRESH WIPES 53g
TOTAL 559g
PERSONAL KIT
TOWEL 101g
SPARE TP 32g
T/BRUSH 14g
SPARE HANKI 22g
FACE WASHER 56g
SUNSCREEN 88g
BUSMAN 80% Deet Repellent 79g
WASHING LINE 41g
TOTAL 433g
FOOD
GLOCODIN x22 tabs +container 43g
TEA BAGS x 8 + zip lock 19g
ENERGY BARS x 2 136g
SALAMI STICKS x 6 + pack 122g
CRISP BREAD x 3 pkt of 4 (KRAFT) 94g
TRAIL BARS x 3 100g
CUP OF OATS LOWANS x 3 195g
CUP OF SOUP cream of chicken and noodles x 4 147g
CHEESE PORTIONS Happy Cow x 8 156g
BACK COUNTRY FREEZE DRI
SPAG BOL 112g
ROAST CHICKEN 118G
BEEF CURRY 109g
EXTRA rice and veg +container 114g
SCROGGIN 265g
CUP OF PASTA 100g
COUNTRY CHEESE BISCUITS x 5 10g
LIGHT PLASTIC CONTAINERS for food + double as bowl 123 g
FOOD BAG 17g
TOTAL 1980g
COOKING
STOVE KOVEA TITAN +Case 132g
REMOTE STOVE STAND AND W/SHIELD 204g
BAG for above 29g
GAS for STOVE 326g
GAS LATERN 262g
GAS for LANTERN 273g (used )
CAN STAND for LANTERN 20g
550ml LW TITAN BILLY AND LID and bag 103g
LEATHER BILLY Lifter 4g
LEXAN BOWL 82g
450ml TITAN MUG and BAG 76g
TITAN LONG HANDLE SPOON 16g
EON HEAD TORCH +spare battery 43g
HELIOS LIGHTER + Lanyard 58g
CHUCKS tea towel 9g
2 Lt BLADDER +TUBES etc 123g
TOTAL 1760g
EPIRB 239g
MULTITOOL 168g
TOTAL 407g
EXTRAS
WATER at the start 1384g
MEDICINAL VODKA + container 439g
SPECIAL SAMPLE of my PLUM VODKA INFUSION for mates +container 262g
Total for the the start of this Summer walk in Tassie = 17.467 kg
I was in no way short of food on this trip but at the age of 62 and weight of 74kg as a summer walk this suited me which is based on (not counting 1st aid or other essentials ) what did you bring back/did not use ,you would need to adapt this list to suit your own needs
GPS,MAPS and Mobile phones were carried by others and I have a compass on my watch and yes I did miss the plastic whistle and cord 12g and 3 HD rubber bands 10g each Total 42g this brings it up to 17.887kg
c

[Clownfish]

Thanks for posting this! Reading some of the other posts about 6kg packs, I was starting to feel like a freak for carrying 19kg on an overnighter! Mind you, I do take extra weight, to lighten the load for my kids, plus if I was less paranoid about water, I could shed another 3-4 kilos in drinking water ...

[Penguin]

Corvus

Are you becoming obsessive now that you are not going to work every day; or just too much time on your hands?

I have an overnighter coming up this weekend and may weigh everything, then I have to write it all down. I could just weigh the lot!

I am interested in the comparison with the overnighter this weekend, where I have been a bit lazy and am just throwing this in, to the seven to eight day walk at the end of Feb, where I feel like I am cutting the end off my toothbrush.

Thanks for an insight into the sort of packs most of us carry

P

[sirius Tas]

Hi Corvus,
Haven't had a chance to check BWT threads of late...but your list and HONEST weights just high light my thoughts to Andrew...that when bush walkers post impossibly low pack weights...you sure as hell know that quite a bit of what I'd consider to be essential items are definitely left behind. Your list is definitely a great guide to those who may be just starting out...and sure it could be trimmed by a kilo or two...but as you've quite rightly stated..DEFINITELY NOT UNDER 6KG.
Great thread Corvus...many thanks for posting actual weights and gear...Cheers...sT.

[Franco]

Corvus
Maybe I could walk for 10 km with 17 kg before giving that up as a bad joke...
When I did the Overland ( 4 days/4 nights) without trying too hard my mate and I both were at just over 12kg all up ( sans water...) me with trekking poles, him with his flying fishing stuff .
Of course the 1.5 kg pack ( now 1kg) and the sub 1kg tent helped..( he was actually about 200g lighter at the airport, bugger)
And yes we had first aid kits, gaiters and mats. Of course it rained (heavily) for hours on hand but still had a great time. Mind you of course it is a highway...

Franco
Oh, the temp was between just over 0 ( it was snowing at the Ossa turnoff) and 20 something. It was summer after all.

[corvus]

Maybe I could walk for 10 km with 17 kg before giving that up as a bad joke...
When I did the Overland ( 4 days/4 nights) without trying too hard my mate and I both were at just over 12kg all up ( sans water...) me with trekking poles, him with his flying fishing stuff .
Of course the 1.5 kg pack ( now 1kg) and the sub 1kg tent helped..( he was actually about 200g lighter at the airport, bugger)
And yes we had first aid kits, gaiters and mats. Of course it rained (heavily) for hours on hand but still had a great time. Mind you of course it is a highway...

Franco,
This is where we have a problem ,just over 12 kg for 4 days and 4 nights what about a list and we can find out what not to take also the sub 1kg tent intrigues but hey if I take out my luxuries(grog) and water 2.085g and use an ultralight pack I can get closer to your weight and still have a 3/4 season performance Tent.

Surprised to read that you as young person would find walking with a 17kg pack for more than 10km hard because in the past I had many young Scouts doing longer than that with around 12 kg each with a smile on their faces and a spring in their step

Ball is in your court now
c

[corvus]

Corvus

Are you becoming obsessive now that you are not going to work every day; or just too much time on your hands?

I have an overnighter coming up this weekend and may weigh everything, then I have to write it all down. I could just weigh the lot!

I am interested in the comparison with the overnighter this weekend, where I have been a bit lazy and am just throwing this in, to the seven to eight day walk at the end of Feb, where I feel like I am cutting the end off my toothbrush.

Thanks for an insight into the sort of packs most of us carry

P

Penguin,
I surprised myself when I got around to weighing every thing in my pack including ziplok bags and it is worth the effort as you only need to do it once and keep it on file to regulate selected walks
c

[Penguin]

Maybe we could set up a spread sheet with a full list and everybody put their weights against that list. A bit hard as we all carry different elements to our stoves (ie with or without windshields). There are other examples of what some consider essentials (first aid kits, vodka) and others seem to get by without.

Also with a rating for how off track you are going, and over how many people you are sharing weight.

It could be a fun exercise.

[Clownfish]

Surprised to read that you as young person would find walking with a 17kg pack for more than 10km hard

In my early 40s and *definitely* not in the best of shape, I hauled 19kgs up and down the Face Track, coming back from Scott-Kilvert Hut

[corvus]

Penguin,
Not so hard to set up the spread sheet (just need someone to tell me how to do it on this forum) and how everyone could add to it

[sthughes]

Well here's my list for the same 4 day, 3 night summer highlands walk. The amount of food I took was a bit crazy - I ate well and shared freely, however I still lost 1.8kg! Sorry no break down - I was a tad hurried that night.
Although it was a bit uncomfortable for the first day or so I got used to the weight and on the last couple of days it was just an inconvienient hump on my back on which to hook low limbs etc. Day 1 had lots of food weight only untill lunch with 600g or so of cold Pizza and a whole punnet of fresh strawberries.
The only things not included are what I was wearing (Gondwana zip off leg trousers, Gondwana shirt, Floppy Hat, briefs, 2 pairs of Explores, wrist watch, sunglasses and Mack Boots (735g each)). If I've missed something let me know.
I could cut a 1 KG no problems, plus another 1 KG of food.

Cash $150 2
Blistex 9
Chux 10
fork 11
Hankie 11
Nylon cord (just in case) 11
Matches 12
Sea to Summit Long Handled Spoon (with carabineer) 15
Toasting Gauze 15
Plastic Plate 17
Sponge/scourer 23
Whistle, thermometer, compass thingy 29
Huge Rubber Bands x3 30
White Dry Bag 1L 40
Pot 300ml 42
Tripod (Gorillapod) 42
Bricynal (Asthma stuff) 43
Playing cards 43
Green Dry Bag (20L) 50
Sunscreen 50
Spare briefs 52
Toothbrush, face washer 57
Compass 59
Orange Dry Bag (5L) 62
Deodorant 63
Maps 63
Polar fleece gloves 66
Car Keys 68
Beanie (Thinsulate) 69
Travel towel (Kathmandu small in pouch) 74
Hand Sanitiser Gel 75
Head torch (Petzl Tikka) 77
Deet 80
Waterproof Gaffa Tape 88
Mobile Phone 98
Biodegradable Detergent 112
Victorinox Pocket Knife 123
Drink bottle 1L 131
Spare Shirt 140
Trowel & Toilet paper 150
Pack cover 157
2l Bladder 160
Coleman Outlander Gas burner 163
GPS Garman Etrex Venture 163
S2S Silk Liner 170
Spare socks (Explorers x2) 190
Spare batteries (3AAA,6AA) 200
Kathmandu Pocket Day Pack 204
Panasonic FX-520 Camera (inc. 3 spare batts) 276
Target Crocs 300
Thermals (top & bottom) 339
Gas Canisters (100g x 2) one used 357
Sea to Summit Large Pack Liner 366
First aid kit 424
Polartec Trousers 455
Trekking Poles 601
Waterproof Trousers 640
Down Jacket 687
Thermarest Prolite 4 (in stuff sac) 743
Kathmandu NGX Rain Coat 819
Kathmandu Moonraker Sleeping Bag 1541
Macpac Microlight Tent (+ 1 peg & Tyvek sheet) 1860
DMH Ambassador Pack 90L (with Mods) 3250
Total 16277

Water carried at start 2L 2000
TOTAL ON BATHROOM SCALES 22.6kg
Therefor food etc 4.3kg

Oh and I'm just under 90kg so that's right on 25% of my body mass as a matter of interest.
Edit - I left out ear plugs - say add another 3g?

[Tony]

Hi Corvus,

Thank you for posting your complete list, we have discussed your gear before and all I have to say is each to their own.

One question, these days with LED torches they last many hours why do you take a torch and a gas lantern.

I did a three day walk in the Australian Alps last weekend my pack weight (gear list previously posted) including fishing gear, walking stick, food (including large undehydrated Spag Bol 800g) and water was 11.5 kg + my Bum bag which includes torch, Compass, matches , spare toilet paper, knife, personal details, fire lighter, two boxes of matches in ziploc bags, 249.1g + camera in protective bag 274.2g. My walking mates pack was 10kg. Half of the walking was off track and I was very comfortable and safe.

Tony

[sirius Tas]

Another brilliant list sthughes...right on the money..so to speak...very comprehensive indeed. As with Corvus's list a great check list for beginners and their expected weights. Top stuff...Cheers..sT.

[Franco]

Corvus
I am a relatively healthy 53 years old, and only have to move my 68 kg on top of my pack, however anything over about 15 kg I consider (now...) a burden and not a pleasure.
My mate Adam is 20 years younger and a fast walker so we regularly passed much younger people on the Oveland , alas we got a lot of comments about "how small" our pack was.
I know the weight because that was from the airport check in scales, we had no carry on luggage.
Add to the 12.3 /12.5 Kg about 350g for the gas canister ( bought in Tassie)
The trip was in Feb 06, these are the main items
Osprey Aether 60 1.5 kg ( heavier in the newer versions)
Tarptent Rainbow 940g (including pegs)
Prolite 4 mat 750g ( women version)
WM Ultralite SB 750g
Kovea 80g stove
900ml Ti pot/windscreen 150g (+/-)
About 800 g of food per day
( cous-cous/instant pasta/ instant rice, dry veggies,tuna in foil, dry chicken/beef/pork, some spices ) 250g of prosciutto, 4x hard boiled eggs full cream milk powder, instant hot chocolate, 1/2 kg of nuts/dry fruit, about 200g of Parmesan cheese ( not parmesan cheese....) a few cloves of garlic, 1 250g of jelly babies (could have been snakes) 6x breakfast bars a few beef jerky bars.Coffee bags,sugar. 1x packet of Vitaweats, Endura powder.
I ate out of the pot. Opinel knife (30g) long Ti spoon. Ix Lexan
Clothing including those worn : Montane nylon long and shorts, 2x Merino 190 tops, 1x Merino lpants, 4x pairs of socks (including my nighttime thin Coolmax) 1x Columbia nylon shirt, 1x wool/possum down jumper (about 250g) 1x Montane puffy 500g jacket (with hood) 1x Montane H2O rain jacket (about 220g) 1x Montane 70g wind/rain pants, 1 x wool/possumdown hat, 1x bandanna , 1x cap with visor.
1x Reicle 1200g boots , 1 x 200g "aqua shoes" .
Aurora headlamp 85g with batteries, Sansa MP3/radio about 50g with spare AAA battery.
Platypus 1 gallon container, 2x 600ml plastic bottles (Gatorade) 1x pee bottle.
Without clothing the above list comes at under 8 kg .
First aid, Micropur tablets and various bits (Chuxs, kitchen scourer, Mini Bic, Juice tool,4 x S2S Sil Cordura bags, 6x bread bags (to wear over my clean socks at camp)) and spare clothing make up the rest.
I hope that you realise I am not considered to be even a light weight hiker in some areas. So my gear is by no means extreme nor minimalistic.
Franco
BTW I dry my meat and some fruit and veggies

[sthughes]

Thank you for posting your complete list, we have discussed your gear before and all I have to say is each to their own

Really when you look at your respective lists (Tony-Corvus)there isn't a huge weight difference. We're talking about 5.5kg. By the time you take Corvus' proper first aid kit, tent and sleeping bag as well as a heavyweight pack, some warm clothes and grog thats about 5kg. Of that the Vodka is the only thing I'd drop in order to save the kgs - it's sooo nice to be warm and dry at camp. The pack could go as well maybe, but unless the other stuff (tent etc) was lighened too - would the light pack cut it with the extra other stuff? Like Tony said - each to their own.

The lantern was for group light - it's hard chatting at night while shining a head torch in someone's face.

Similarly for franco with some changes. Of course his is an OT list of course not a Never Never list. Like 70g rain trousers? I don't know anything about them but I doubt they would survive the Never Never and Hartnetts track scrub.

What would be really cool (if you've got nothing better to do ) is copy my list and write next to each item in red how to cut the weight down without spending a fortune on tiny savings.

[Franco]

Just looking again at my list some of the bits I have omitted are playing cards, 65g, personal Hagan such as brush/mirror(?), shaving oil (about 20g) 1x disposable razor, about 30g of Bronner soap, baking soda (toothpaste/deodoriser for body and clothing/ antacid) and a silk bag liner, can't remember which one but around 130g.
The total weight remains the same...
My 70g Montane wind pants wet out pretty quickly in heavy rain but still keep my legs warm. I only use them on open trails otherwise I have a pair of eVent pants with cordura patches in the right places. ( 240g) . Those kept me dry in much thicker rain in Nepal. Of course my feet were wet.most days (mid trail shoes)
The Featherlite pants are my "emergency" warm bottom sleeping layer, the huge Paddy Pallin white plastic liner ( I had that also, about 100g) is another part of that and so are the bread bags. So I could have easely gone down to -10 c. So not exactly taking my chances with the gear I had.
Curiously all but two other walkers took the ferry the last day, most clearly had had enough.
I regretted having used heavier shoes than I normally do. Adam used a pair of Salomon runners (about 600g) and he was fine with that. He had wet feet at the start of the second day ( it did not rain the first afternoon) mine were wet from midday the third day.

To me it is all about enjoying the walk, how fast or how heavy is not in question. If you need a book to read at night to keep you happy, so be it. The same for spirits/chocolate whatever. I only posted the weight to show that you can go lighter without sacrificing comfort, in fact for me (and others) it has to do about comfort.

Franco

[corvus]

Corvus
I am a relatively healthy 53 years old, and only have to move my 68 kg on top of my pack, however anything over about 15 kg I consider (now...) a burden and not a pleasure.
My mate Adam is 20 years younger and a fast walker so we regularly passed much younger people on the Oveland , alas we got a lot of comments about "how small" our pack was.

G'day young Franco
Many thanks for your list,checked out you "Tarp Tent " it looks good however IMHO I dont really think it is suitable for all Tassie conditions,also checked out the Osprey Packs and the only one that would suit me "85" L weighs as much as my Canvas WE pack,I also think you need to re weigh your Prolite mat as my Reg 4 (all sex version)only weighs 700g.
Its nice to have these comparisons and I guess pack weight is really relative to your personal level of fitness bodyweight (68kg how tall are you) and regularity of walks like most things in life ,as an example I believe I have left it too late in life to be wandering the Western Arthurs but I am still keen to do the SW track and I intend to fully explore the Tyndalls in the not to distant future with a mate of similar vintage
c

[Tony]

Hi Sthuges,

Really when you look at your respective lists (Tony-Corvus)there isn't a huge weight difference. We're talking about 5.5kg

I am not sure what you are getting at here the difference between 11.5 kg and 17kg in a back pack is enormous, for me it is the difference between comfortable days walking to a very uncomfortable days walking. I even notice the difference between 11.5kg to 10kg. Have you actually tried a multi day walk with 10kg.

By the time you take Corvus' proper first aid kit, tent and sleeping bag as well as a heavyweight pack, some warm clothes and grog thats about 5kg

You are assuming that lightweight walkers do not have a proper first aid kit and are not using proper gear, check my "complete and honest" winter gear list out and the weights in this thread viewtopic.php?f=15&t=805. with an 11kg pack I did a snow shoe trip in the Australian Alps and experienced a snow storm and -16C conditions.

The lantern was for group light - it's hard chatting at night while shining a head torch in someone's face

I am not sure if a at 535g for lantern and gas is the best way to go for a light at night, a quick search of an old Jaycar catalog I found a mini led lantern which weighs in at 32g + batteries. (types of batteries not stated)

What would be really cool (if you've got nothing better to do ) is copy my list and write next to each item in red how to cut the weight down without spending a fortune on tiny savings.

I did this to a gear list that Corvus posted earlier and my suggestions where dismissed as hopelessly inadequate with no reason or explanation, I will not waste my time with yours.

Lightweight walking is a way of thinking or to put it another way a philosophy. If you really want to reduce the weight in your pack there is plenty of information available on the net. The best tip I can give you to reduce your pack weight is to join BPL http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... index.html or at least read the forums http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... index.html

Tony

[sthughes]

I am not sure what you are getting at here the difference between 11.5 kg and 17kg in a back pack is enormous, for me it is the difference between comfortable days walking to a very uncomfortable days walking. I even notice the difference between 11.5kg to 10kg. Have you actually tried a multi day walk with 10kg.

No no I just meant not a lot of difference in items - I mean 5.5kg was about 6 items. Bad wording - of course carrying and extra 5kg makes a big difference No I've never done a multi day with 10kg but I've done some long day walks with under that and they've been no more enjoyable - just covered a bit more ground. But then I dont find 20kg to be uncomfortable - of course it slows me down a bit but I don't care as I'm not in a race. LIKE YOU SAID

all I have to say is each to their own

You are assuming that lightweight walkers do not have a proper first aid kit and are not using proper gear, check my "complete and honest" winter gear list out and the weights in this thread viewtopic.php?f=15&t=805. with an 11kg pack I did a snow shoe trip in the Australian Alps and experienced a snow storm and -16C conditions.

Ah when you mentioned your gear list I did a search and found another list of yours with a Tarptent, a quilt thing and no real warm clothes! This is a much better list - thanks for linking it! Still that rain coat would be dodgey for Tassie scrub. What a proper first aid kit comprises is a whole other topic by itself. So if we say that list of yours is 12kg (adding the bum bag, evening meals and a few things you were wearing that Corvus had in the pack) then we are not that far off. Add an extra 500g for a heavy duty rain shell, plus more for a more comprehensive first aid kit and 300g for crocks, and were are pretty quickly approaching a 4.5kg difference. Add 2kg for the heavy duty pack and more for the lantern setup as well as an epirb and we're under 2kg which can be mostly made up with a bunch of little convievience/safety items (clothes line, face washer, sunscreen, deet, lighter etc etc.) so maybe you can see what I mean that by just having a slightly different attitude to things (more robust, comfy) lots can change in terms of pack weight. Its a personal preference thing I don't think either ways is wrong, just different priorities.

I am not sure if a at 535g for lantern and gas is the best way to go for a light at night, a quick search of an old Jaycar catalog I found a mini led lantern which weighs in at 32g + batteries. (types of batteries not stated)

Indeed I agree! (but then LED's make terrible mood lighting )

[Franco]

Corvus
"Many thanks for your list,checked out you "Tarp Tent " it looks good however IMHO I don't really think it is suitable for all Tassie conditions"
It depends...
I was doing the Overland not the Western Arthurs.
Funny thing is that I get comments like that about both the Rainbow and the Contrail the morning after .
Yes I have had walkers looking at my shelter, after a somewhat rough night , commenting that those tents don't cut it. The funny part is that as they say that they are looking at it standing there perfectly taut and talking to me after a restful night whilst they comment about "flapping" or "drippings" from their 4 season tents. .
As a comparison , I would trust the Rainbow where folk trust the Microlite, except that I get less condensation inside the TT.
If you want to see a more "storm worthy" version, look at the Tarptent Sublite Sil ( if you use trekking poles) or for a 4 season version the Scarp 1 , still under 1.5 kg with the freestanding optional poles.
Keep in mind that having worked for 30 years in Little Bourke St (the outdoor Mecca in Melbourne) I have accumulated several of each ( like 9 tents, 4 mats, 4 packs...)
My Prolite 4 provably has at least 50g of silicone added to the bottom to stop it from sliding.
I'm 171 cm tall. When I say relatively healthy, I meant I have not visited a doctor since I was 18 years old.
Having neglected oral hygiene when I was young , dentists have seen me regularly.
Franco
BTW, larger volume tent/sleeping bag= larger pack=heavier pack....

[Tony]

Hi sthughes,

So I know where you are coming from could you please answer some questions.

1) have you used the Marmont Precip Rain Jacket, the BPL sleeping bag and the Golite packs that I use.

2) have walked with anyone using this gear

3) have you even seen this gear

So you know where I come from

1) I did a lot of research before I purchased the Marmont Precip jacket and I did have some reservations how it would handle some of the thick scrub that I walk through, I have now done two walks where I have used it while walking through thick scrub while it had been raining, sleeting and snowing and besides being surprisingly comfortable to wear it is still in very good condition, I have also used it while snowshoeing in a snow storm. It has handle some tough conditions with flying colours. Checkout my River somewhere thread and the second picture and the last viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1359

2) The Golite Jam2 and my old Golite Trek packs are made of Dyneema, I have used a frameless pack the Trek made of this material on many bush bashing trips for over 5 years now and it is still in good condition, The Jam2 with 10 kg in it is the most comfortable pack I have ever used, I will never go back to a heavy frame pack.

3) the BPL ultra light 180 quilt was actually designed for a trip in the Arctic, I have found it to be superb to sleep in and have been comfortable in in conditions down to below 0C http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... quilt.html and I look forward to finding its limits

If having the right mood of light at night or a large pack so it is easier to put gear in as your top priorities then that is up to you but for me walking with a light pack has improved my enjoyment of bushwalking no end and that is important for me.

Tony

[sthughes]

Tony,
Okay I'm sorry for doubting how incredibly robust and warm your fantastic lightweight gear is compared to our antiquated stuff. I guess you're right and I'm just too stupid to do whats best for me. I will be into the local outdoor shop tomorrow to check out a coat like yours, I could do with something lighter than my stupid heavy jacket that is no more durable anyway. I was only dubious of it's off track survivability because a retailer was describing it as ideal for "low abrasion environments". And I was only unsure of the warmth of the quilt becaause Backpacklight themselves say "The Backpacking Light UL 180 Quilt can be used as the core component of a three-season sleep system when combined with Cocoon clothing, or by itself for summer backpacking in mild climates". At least you have put me right now and I can move on to an enlightened future.

I look forward to finding its limits

I don't want to find the limits of my gear - I think that sums up our differences nicley.

[Franco]

Just a comment on quilts. A lot of users prefer them exactly because you can layer up easier in them than with a sleeping bag. So part of the idea of "lightweight" walking is to multi use as much as you can. It is assumed by the LW community that when needed you use most of the clothing you have with you, hence the popular puffy jackets, bandannas, liner gloves. Not that uncommon is using stuff sacs over socks or as mittens. But of course not everyone is comfortable sleeping with "day clothes" on.
Quilts can be very much like trekking poles, common to see comments like "I never liked them...till I started using them"
Another common misconception is about the perceived strength of a single wall tent. Very simply the fly takes the weather, if you have an inner or not does not make any difference here. But because people carry a heavier/bulkier load they feel more secure.
Sometimes we need to think outside the right/wrong, clever/stupid argument. As I mentioned above to me it is rather silly that after having proved that something works people stand around saying " it will never do the job..." of course "it will not work for me" is another story.

Franco

[Nuts]

That really is an incredible amount of gear for a 4 day walk. I'm not really sure why you guy's posted those lists, with nothing to learn, yet admitting many items were luxuries, seems to me it was just to stir the pot....

[sthughes]

That really is an incredible amount of gear for a 4 day walk. I'm not really sure why you guy's posted those lists, with nothing to learn, yet admitting many items were luxuries, seems to me it was just to stir the pot....

Lol - perhaps.
I'd like to know what you think I should leave behind next time. The items I didn't use were:
Cash $150 2
Nylon cord (just in case) 11
Huge Rubber Bands x3 30
Tripod (Gorillapod) 42
Bricynal (Asthma stuff) 43
Playing cards 43
Compass 59
Car Keys 68
Waterproof Gaffa Tape 88
Mobile Phone 98
Spare batteries 3AAA 50
Kathmandu Pocket Day Pack 204
Total: 695g
(I've highlighted the ones I wouldn't leave out = 411g)

I will give the lightweight thing a go on the Strollers February walk! I may sound a tad cynical but really I would be interested to try it on a walk in a not so remote area with coastal weather. Of course I'll have to make do with other stuff I have rather than buy a new kit for an experiment. But if it works and I like it it may be an expensive time ahead

[Nuts]

I just got back from carrying 34kg to Pelion, the lightest load of a dozen or so this summer. Anything to keep the kilo's off is worth a look. I sold one of those Golite packs to Tony (under $100 if I recall), but (and I guess this is the point), I sold them because I was tiered of trying to explain (to novices) just how you can spend a week in the bush with everything fitting in such a pack. Not cause it can't be done.

I guess that in reality, i'd end up with a similar weight to Corvus, though I do recognise that a similar level of safety (perhaps not comfort) could be achieved with far less. To me it is just as important a message to get out that more gear may not mean more safety, I've seen many people struggling up hills with heavy packs who I would expect to have a very short-lived bushwalking career either from injury or just wondering what the heck they are doing out there...

[Nuts]

Just a note that I am not going to start picking apart peoples lists, we have been down that road and it always ends in differences of opinion on just about every item. A few broad points though:
You will Never carry That much gear in a 700gram pack...
There is a difference (and no upper limit) between first aid and comfort....
If you have an adequate sleeping bag, at the end of the day, all the warm clothes are more a comfort than necessity...

Sure, you May end up with a different comfort level, but it can be done. I guess the key is knowledge, but we dont seem to have advanced that much from the dilly bag? (not that gear manufacturers would like that idea to take hold )

[sirius Tas]

Hi sthughes,
Surprised you came back with the same cash....what no good at poker

To Nuts,
Did you say 34kg....or was that meant to be pounds ...heck that's half my weight.

[Nuts]

That's what I was thinking, the usual bit of a cringe when i hit submit

34 to 42kg (Nothing remotely enjoyable about it) (especially @ 30*c+)

[Son of a Beach]

Maybe we could set up a spread sheet with a full list and everybody put their weights against that list. A bit hard as we all carry different elements to our stoves (ie with or without windshields). There are other examples of what some consider essentials (first aid kits, vodka) and others seem to get by without.

Also with a rating for how off track you are going, and over how many people you are sharing weight.

It could be a fun exercise.

My next BWT project will actually make this possible all on the BWT site. It's not the purpose of the project, but an off-shoot of it. I'll post more details when it's a bit further along in development. It will be some time away from completion yet (only really started in earnest about a week ago), so if you guys want to do a spreadsheet in the meantime, don't hold back.