best clothes for the hot wet tropics

[mickb]

Hi gents, any bushbashers in the Qld tropics or similar with a favoured type of clothing?

For a 1-3 day slog cross country in rainforest what should one choose for coolness, durability or dry-out ability?

[GPSGuided]

Exofficio?

[Lizzy]

Did some walking in the jungle up there and it wasn't so good for a nice new long sleeve cool max type shirt- the wait-a-while loved it. My prefeference is long sleeve, button up quick dry that offer some protection from the plants, bugs and sun. We also went with similar long pants and gaiters. Gloves and secateurs also came in handy. This was mostly off track walking.

[Gadgetgeek]

I do exxoficio boxerbreifs, underarmor tee-shirt (non-compression) and a long sleeve vented shirt like a craghopper nosilife, or similar. one of my work supplied shirts is a mont which is quite nice, but doesn't keep the bugs out as well as others. Pants can be whatever is going to work with the environment or plan, craghopper kiwis, or cotton work pants. I focus on having a comfortable base-layer and the top layer can be as tough as needed, it can be hot, but better than chaffed and gooey.

[Chezza]

For NQ? Thick cotton work pants (for insect & leg protection) or stubbies, thick cotton work shirt (the ones with the back vents), riggers gloves with thick cloth back of hand (not full leather). Preferably from the op shop, and washed with permethrin if you can. Gaiters for mud & snakes, but *not* the waterproof ones. Being wet doesn't matter from a warmth perspective, even at night in the winter (at least for me), and you will be soaked from sweat anyway. So getting high-performance branded stuff is a total waste. Assume you'll trash everything and buy cheap stuff. If it lasts the trip that's great.

Worked well for the little off-track walking I did in NQ. As a bonus they were hi-vis so the pig hunters would know not to shoot a crossbow at me

Anything will work if you're only on track and the mossies aren't too bad. Or even nothing

[beean]

I'm from Townsville.

I always hiked in baggyish light nylon pants, like those Colombia ones or Anaconda budget brand, coast or something like that. Sometimes those Craghopper kiwis on cooler days. Shirt was a Nosilife longsleeve (it really works!) from Craghoppers or a cheap $5 thin cotton. Gadgetgeek, great minds think alike eh?

[nq111]

A would rate coolness above all else. In my opinion any suggestions for 'baggy' or 'cotton' are for dry heat, not humid heat. Long, loose pants for one are very hot in humid heat.

For pure technical performance in the humid heat, the best has to be very light and skin tight wicking synthetics (e.g. under armor), long sleeves and legs and ideally in white. Treat with permethrin and this will help greatly with the mozzies as well. So I don't look like a total freak i will wear light runners shorts and shirts over this. I even go so far as wearing a buff over my face and head. A tight, light layer can be cooler than nothing (flattens your insulating body hair, maximises evaporation, keeps the sun off your skin, minimises dirt on the skin (which makes you hotter) and you don't need sunscreen (which makes your skin stickier and hotter)). I don't always wear long leggings (though it is cooler with them) but always wear the long top.

With this clothing you may feel a tad warmer to start (when everything is dry), but will not get as hot overall through the day and be cooler on the move when the sweat starts flowing (won't take long).

True this is not the most durable clothing, but with gaiters to protect the lower legs and some care wear and tear is acceptable. You won't be going far in decant wait-a-while no matter what you wear - even with secateurs and machete the going is very, very slow.

Humid heat is very exhausting to be walking in. Sometimes the conditions can be so still, humid and warm that it actually feels cooler to keep walking, due the slight cooling breeze generated! Going by the studies that have been done, the number one thing above all else to do to prepare for these conditions is actual heat training to aclimate your body.

If you are walking in winter up here the humidity may not be too bad and you can get away with most light clothes.

Some other thoughts for this trip, cleanliness is 'cooliness' so take a very quick swim in every creek you come to. Also, a hammock makes a much cooler bed then a tent.

[Gadgetgeek]

One other thought. I always try to keep the sun off, but as soon as I'm back in the shade, sleeves get rolled up and the hat comes off if I can. I'm also a big fan of soaked hats or buffs. Depending on what I'm doing. Sometimes I don't get much of a choice. nq111 I agree about acclimation. I try to avoid always being in air con, and while I will use it to cool off, I've noticed that If I spend several days inside, the outside gets much worse, but if I can get more used to the heat, I do better. Of course that comes at a cost, you can feel better up until the point you overheat, and that will still knock you down. And while sweating more helps, sometimes the body doesn't adjust the thirst and the sweat at the same rate.

Beean, funny how that works out. I no longer have many cotton shirts because good ones are hard to find, and they just feel heavy and gross when wet. But good ones do work very well.

Heat is just like cold, adjustable layers are your friend. also some people have a wider comfort range than others. I can get used to either heat or cold to a degree, but its not a wide range, once I'm used to 34, 24 seems chilly.

[mickb]

Guys, thanks for all the suggestions, it got me thinking. I think I am going to go for basic hardyakka shirts and lightweight trousers with detachable leggings below the knee, and wear sleeves down for bush bashing areas with stinging trees, and sleeves up and short trousers for established tracks, open country. Should keep me safe/cool enough as required!

[Gadgetgeek]

Thats one huge advantage that aussies have, there is a lot of good quality, hot weather clothing that can be adapted to bushwalking for reasonable prices. Just like back in canada where I could get cheap, good cold weather gear without having to shell out for the "outdoor" brands.

[nq111]

Thats one huge advantage that aussies have, there is a lot of good quality, hot weather clothing that can be adapted to bushwalking for reasonable prices.

Hmmm, actually I would disagree.

Hot and dry is easy to dress for and North Queensland dry season is easy enough to deal with but being out and active in true hot and humid conditions is tough and poorly catered for in gear and clothing.

[Chezza]

I beg to differ NQ. Air conditioning and a well stocked refrigerator are both easy enough to find and all the gear you need when it's truly hot and humid.

[nq111]

I beg to differ NQ. Air conditioning and a well stocked refrigerator are both easy enough to find and all the gear you need when it's truly hot and humid.

Pretty much what everybody who is sane does. I am a bit mad climbing mountains up here in the summer.

[johnnymacfnq]

Lightweight shorts and a short sleeved shirt with a collar. Sunscreen and insect repellant, there's still a bit of dengue around certain parts of Cairns.

[mickb]

well I hit the bush on some long NQ hikes, then hit PNG too!( safish areas- northern coastal areas but still with the same jungle and still summer temps). For anyone interested here is what I put together.

1. If you aren't going to get wet, sweat through or be rained on, cotton is fine and feels the best, especially for working, day hikes or general camping.
2. But its useless for multi-day trips in the bush where you are accepting the fact a lot of the time you may get wet. Either by sweating through clothes or raining because it will never dry out on you. Also when its raining even if you are wearing a poncho or breathable jacket of any type, you sweat through your clothes once the going gets tough. Cotton absorbs and holds water, feels like crap against the skin and may not even dry out at night when you are camped and its humid/raining.
3.Lightweight poly/nylon mixes were my choice.They feel hotter when dry, but dry out a lot faster when wet, since they are not hydrophilic( can't hold water weight). They can even dry out during the dry parts of a walk, or at night under the tarp. They for me are the only choice when you are seriously trekking. Again cotton+raincoats are the go for daytrips from camp no probs, but multiple days in the jungle you get used to the following fact-
4.You are going to stay wet a lot of the time. When the terrain got serious, or rain was happening, hard slogs in heavy bush up steep contours and creek crossings etc, just like the yank and brit military do I went to basically 2 sets of clothes system. Wet ones for day, dry ones for sleeping. The advantage again here is the lightweight poly etc will near dry out most times being hung on a branch or even under your tarp during the night. If not you put it on wet, give it a wash wearing it in the next creek and get used to the feel.You can do this for weeks if needed.
5. With Light/medium weight poly shirts durability was my concern, but my thoughts are now they are 'just' tough enough for hiking, even in swamps, through wait awhile or other rough vegetation, IF you are careful with it. If you are running through bush, chasing pigs or playing army, they probably will not be so. Also the very lightest poly weaves, those synthetic shirts that seem to be almost wafer thin, I doubt would be very good at all. I chose a lightweight/medium but still sturdy ripstop, with mesh armpits, backflap and long sleeves.
6. Trousers, again I like the synthetics, and found the types with the zip off mid leggings useful. For getting into potential malaria areas or stinging tree zones like around clearings or sides of bush tracks you have the advantage of long protection. You can also go shorts style for more open country or thick bush or creek walks. They also look fairly stylish for wearing when you get back to camp, civilisation or stop in at hotels, either as shorts or cargo pants. Again I used the same set for day use again, and the others for sleeping. In this way too, only one set will ever be worn and torn by use, the other sets will be pristine for a lot longer.
7. hat, personal choice, I won't mess with folks choices, and too be honest I still haven't investigated many options myself. What I found I liked though is a cap with kepi neck covering, that way I had back of neck protection, also from bugs. I also have a hunting style cabelas facenet for really buggy areas, which has on open area just for the eyes, much like a ski mask does.
8. Boots. Again the assumption is for continual forest bashing your boots are going to get and probably stay wet and may not even dry properly at night. Waterproof boots like goretex are clearly unsuitable for the tropics due to the heat and discomfort. I have not tried too many boot options being its too expensive to do so. However my aim was for a cheap boot ( given no boot is going to survive eternal use in the tropics anyway), high sided( not for support, just as an advantage to keep sand out when crossing creeks when your feet sink in, and even moreso so it does not get sucked off your feet in deep mud- very important point this last one) Crosstrail sneakers seemed great at first but were prone to accepting sand crossing wet sand bars with my heavy pack on, and a lost some of the off my feet. Back to the topic they also need to be lightweight, you are walking where every step can be a drag literally and heavy boots will also be harder to dry at night. Grommets or mesh in the sides to drain water. Light army or military tropical style boots may be a good option here. Personally I went even cheaper and lighter and got some good old fashioned 'gym boots', or converse as the yanks call them. They are tough, canvas, super lightweight, grommets, mid ankle height, rubber soled bottoms which are the best I have seen for slippery rocks, and not too expensive. In fact they are light and 'squishy' enough you can bundle up a spare set in your pack for night time or visits to civilisation, and don't look out of place in casual company. personal choice though again, some people may need more support or cushioning.

Well that's about it so far. I put together some thoughts on toiletries, shelters and accessories for expedition style hiking which also include my own past experience in the military and contracting overseas and will make another thread later. Thanks for the food for thought above, happy hiking!

[mickb]

I'll clarify some points to the above by saying I am an incredibly sweaty guy so the non sweaters with cotton 'might' do 'slightly better' than I do in extended rainforest hikes. Also if you are not in 3rd world( so no malaria) and avoiding areas of thick waitawhile/stinging trees you can get away with wearing less and sweating less and maybe shirts and shorts only style will have okay utility. My post covered instances where long clothes are often necessary or wetness was unavoidable and in that case, everytime, the cotton was terrible for me. It literally never dried, even in camp, even when I wasn't moving, and felt like a clingy rag. The poly/nylon and hi poly/low cotton blends dried out and felt normal. They got a bit pongier but I'd soap myself fully clothed in streams on the move once a day or so that didn't matter.

[GPSGuided]

How do the soldiers cope? I understand they wear thickish shirts.

[jjoz58]

How do the soldiers cope? I understand they wear thickish shirts.

You sweat, you never dry even at night, everything is damp or wet and you stink. I used to come back from exercises up north and could order the cams to get in the washer by themselves, as I'm sure they were alive, just not sure with what. Spent 6 weeks in the same clothes once and burnt them when I got home, as I couldn't get the smell or dirt out of them.

God I loved it!

[mickb]

Brings back same memories JJ. And army uniforms are 50/50 poly/cotton as well so not as bad as pure cotton. Hotter to wear but once saturated dry a bit faster.

Also should clarify my points do not relate regular hot aussie bush weather, eg NT, Darwin or Cape York where cotton may be a great option . Tropical rainforest is different scenario with the humidity, rain, stillness and constant contact with vegetation.

[nq111]

How do the soldiers cope? I understand they wear thickish shirts.

I reckon there are a few things going on here.

1. The soldiers have a different set of criteria to work to. All their stuff seems to be extra durable, designed to resist burning, able to be used continuously for 2 months at a time without failing etc. Look at the US sleep system for example, it is well thought out, plenty warm and it would be what you want if you were going to drag your sleeping bag through ditches for months without being able to wash the gear and the 1st priority being your survival (not the care of the gear). However us soft walkers would get the same outcome for 1/2 or a 1/3 the weight for our week walks where we can care for the gear.
2. The military are undoubtedly slow to adopt new technologies and approaches, probably because they don't want to risk untried things? I had a mate in the army for a number of years when we first got out of school. He was stunned at the crap stuff they were using (compared to what we used out in the bush as teenagers). Apparently you could upgrade at your own cost to the better gear (e.g. internal frame backpacks) at your own cost from a list of approved suppliers and models (which he did). But now much of what he was using I believe is fairly standard. The believe in the USA archteryx backpacks are now standard issue?
3. The military are on a budget, cheap, functional and durable every time for standard issue.
4. I spent a lot of time looking at military boots trying to find something for my purposes a while ago (sucks not being able to view and try on all these overseas models). It seems that the middle eastern wars have seen all the major boot companies (including some common walking brands) are producing new ranges of military spec boots for the foot soldiers and have been pushing all sorts of interesting innovations through to the military. For example lots of very light desert boots with sticky vibram soles on the market. Lots of review of how crap the standard issue stuff is in deployment. Perhaps the advances flow through to the military at a faster pace when large numbers of soldiers are deployed and prepared to buy with their own money the best solutions. Maybe if the Vietnam war was happening today we would see a faster uptake of the more modern gear and approaches for tropical conditions?
5. The most important thing to deal with the humid heat is to aclimate to it through regular exercise in such conditions (well that is what some scientific literature suggests). For soldiers that process (e.g. three weeks heat training minimum to adapt) is their job and they will do it, and be expected to deal with the rest. Few of us mortal civillians can spend the necessary time active in those conditions to adapt as well.

Lastly the military does get it wrong. Not that long ago I recall they marched a few soldiers to death from heat in the north.

Having said all that, the stuff the military comes up with can be very good, well suited but just rarely cutting edge. Look at their seven layer clothing system (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Cold_Weather_Clothing_System ). This has evolved in a way not to dissimilar to us walkers (e.g. to better wicking synthetic underlayers and more breathable / less waterproof outers) and is pretty smart. I have some miltary spec light phase powderdry baselayers (ex. USA) and whilst I don't like them quite as much as my super light wicking nylon or polyester baselayers they are better than most fabrics in the humid heat (and much superior to cotton). And much more durable than my light stuff.

[nq111]

Thanks for bumping this mickb, I missed the updates originally to the thread.

Looks like you have come to some similar outcomes to my experiences.

[jjoz58]

I reckon there are a few things going on here.

1. The soldiers have a different set of criteria to work to. All their stuff seems to be extra durable, designed to resist burning, able to be used continuously for 2 months at a time without failing etc. Look at the US sleep system for example, it is well thought out, plenty warm and it would be what you want if you were going to drag your sleeping bag through ditches for months without being able to wash the gear and the 1st priority being your survival (not the care of the gear). However us soft walkers would get the same outcome for 1/2 or a 1/3 the weight for our week walks where we can care for the gear.
2. The military are undoubtedly slow to adopt new technologies and approaches, probably because they don't want to risk untried things? I had a mate in the army for a number of years when we first got out of school. He was stunned at the crap stuff they were using (compared to what we used out in the bush as teenagers). Apparently you could upgrade at your own cost to the better gear (e.g. internal frame backpacks) at your own cost from a list of approved suppliers and models (which he did). But now much of what he was using I believe is fairly standard. The believe in the USA archteryx backpacks are now standard issue?
3. The military are on a budget, cheap, functional and durable every time for standard issue.
4. I spent a lot of time looking at military boots trying to find something for my purposes a while ago (sucks not being able to view and try on all these overseas models). It seems that the middle eastern wars have seen all the major boot companies (including some common walking brands) are producing new ranges of military spec boots for the foot soldiers and have been pushing all sorts of interesting innovations through to the military. For example lots of very light desert boots with sticky vibram soles on the market. Lots of review of how crap the standard issue stuff is in deployment. Perhaps the advances flow through to the military at a faster pace when large numbers of soldiers are deployed and prepared to buy with their own money the best solutions. Maybe if the Vietnam war was happening today we would see a faster uptake of the more modern gear and approaches for tropical conditions?
5. The most important thing to deal with the humid heat is to aclimate to it through regular exercise in such conditions (well that is what some scientific literature suggests). For soldiers that process (e.g. three weeks heat training minimum to adapt) is their job and they will do it, and be expected to deal with the rest. Few of us mortal civillians can spend the necessary time active in those conditions to adapt as well.

Lastly the military does get it wrong. Not that long ago I recall they marched a few soldiers to death from heat in the north.

Having said all that, the stuff the military comes up with can be very good, well suited but just rarely cutting edge. Look at their seven layer clothing system (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Cold_Weather_Clothing_System ). This has evolved in a way not to dissimilar to us walkers (e.g. to better wicking synthetic underlayers and more breathable / less waterproof outers) and is pretty smart. I have some miltary spec light phase powderdry baselayers (ex. USA) and whilst I don't like them quite as much as my super light wicking nylon or polyester baselayers they are better than most fabrics in the humid heat (and much superior to cotton). And much more durable than my light stuff.

I wasn't going to answer this but boy this whole spiel is just garbage. Unless your mate was infantry he doesn't have a clue as we are the only ones sleeping in the ditches/rain/mud for weeks on end. You got one thing right it is cheap, the cheaper the better, and it doesn't have to be functional or durable just as long as it is cheap. I always remember the Smock Rain (psychological) it keep rain out for 60 minutes after being taken out of the packet and then you may as well have been wearing something made of fish net as a rain jacket. As for buying your own stuff, commanding officers and regimental sergeant majors of infantry battalions, the real soldiers, have this thing about soldiers being dressed differently, kind of annoys them. The other problem is you can only get 1 for 1 replacement of gear on exercise or ops, and it has to be issued equipment. You keep referring to US made and issued gear, we are the poor cousins they laugh at what we have to wear and use. Finally 3 weeks to acclimatize, 20+ years and never seen it. Gone from summer in Townsville to the snow and the only thing you get is ëat cement and harden up or encouragement to that effect. Same with tropics to desert and all the other varying climates. Although in Canada, the Canadian army did take pity on us and they actually issued us with their gear because we were freezing, with our excellent Aussie army issued winter gear, again cheap non-functional gear.

Reading back this seems harsh but one should be careful about commenting on what they have heard, been told or read, rather on what they actually know, as most of it is pure PR B/S.

[slparker]

I reckon there are a few things going on here.

1. The soldiers have a different set of criteria to work to. All their stuff seems to be extra durable, designed to resist burning, able to be used continuously for 2 months at a time without failing etc. Look at the US sleep system for example, it is well thought out, plenty warm and it would be what you want if you were going to drag your sleeping bag through ditches for months without being able to wash the gear and the 1st priority being your survival (not the care of the gear). However us soft walkers would get the same outcome for 1/2 or a 1/3 the weight for our week walks where we can care for the gear.
2. The military are undoubtedly slow to adopt new technologies and approaches, probably because they don't want to risk untried things? I had a mate in the army for a number of years when we first got out of school. He was stunned at the crap stuff they were using (compared to what we used out in the bush as teenagers). Apparently you could upgrade at your own cost to the better gear (e.g. internal frame backpacks) at your own cost from a list of approved suppliers and models (which he did). But now much of what he was using I believe is fairly standard. The believe in the USA archteryx backpacks are now standard issue?
3. The military are on a budget, cheap, functional and durable every time for standard issue.
4. I spent a lot of time looking at military boots trying to find something for my purposes a while ago (sucks not being able to view and try on all these overseas models). It seems that the middle eastern wars have seen all the major boot companies (including some common walking brands) are producing new ranges of military spec boots for the foot soldiers and have been pushing all sorts of interesting innovations through to the military. For example lots of very light desert boots with sticky vibram soles on the market. Lots of review of how crap the standard issue stuff is in deployment. Perhaps the advances flow through to the military at a faster pace when large numbers of soldiers are deployed and prepared to buy with their own money the best solutions. Maybe if the Vietnam war was happening today we would see a faster uptake of the more modern gear and approaches for tropical conditions?
5. The most important thing to deal with the humid heat is to aclimate to it through regular exercise in such conditions (well that is what some scientific literature suggests). For soldiers that process (e.g. three weeks heat training minimum to adapt) is their job and they will do it, and be expected to deal with the rest. Few of us mortal civillians can spend the necessary time active in those conditions to adapt as well.

Lastly the military does get it wrong. Not that long ago I recall they marched a few soldiers to death from heat in the north.

Having said all that, the stuff the military comes up with can be very good, well suited but just rarely cutting edge. Look at their seven layer clothing system (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Cold_Weather_Clothing_System ). This has evolved in a way not to dissimilar to us walkers (e.g. to better wicking synthetic underlayers and more breathable / less waterproof outers) and is pretty smart. I have some miltary spec light phase powderdry baselayers (ex. USA) and whilst I don't like them quite as much as my super light wicking nylon or polyester baselayers they are better than most fabrics in the humid heat (and much superior to cotton). And much more durable than my light stuff.

I wasn't going to answer this but boy this whole spiel is just garbage. Unless your mate was infantry he doesn't have a clue as we are the only ones sleeping in the ditches/rain/mud for weeks on end. You got one thing right it is cheap, the cheaper the better, and it doesn't have to be functional or durable just as long as it is cheap. I always remember the Smock Rain (psychological) it keep rain out for 60 minutes after being taken out of the packet and then you may as well have been wearing something made of fish net as a rain jacket. As for buying your own stuff, commanding officers and regimental sergeant majors of infantry battalions, the real soldiers, have this thing about soldiers being dressed differently, kind of annoys them. The other problem is you can only get 1 for 1 replacement of gear on exercise or ops, and it has to be issued equipment. You keep referring to US made and issued gear, we are the poor cousins they laugh at what we have to wear and use. Finally 3 weeks to acclimatize, 20+ years and never seen it. Gone from summer in Townsville to the snow and the only thing you get is ëat cement and harden up or encouragement to that effect. Same with tropics to desert and all the other varying climates. Although in Canada, the Canadian army did take pity on us and they actually issued us with their gear because we were freezing, with our excellent Aussie army issued winter gear, again cheap non-functional gear.

Reading back this seems harsh but one should be careful about commenting on what they have heard, been told or read, rather on what they actually know, as most of it is pure PR B/S.

Nice rant.
NQ1111 does have a few things right though:
the general quality of gear has improved in the last decade, especially since the significant injection of funding due to recent operational deployments. Cold weather gear for the Middle east now consists of some acceptable items - softshells, goretexy gear, zamberlan boots, primaloft jackets etc
Soldiers can, to a point, select some of their own kit, depending upon unit. Boots (from a range of accepted designs) are an example, as are packs, to a point.

Acclimatisation to hot weather has improved, at least on exercise in Australia. there are mandatory requirements with acclimatisation and work in hot/humid environments. This has evolved since the TPR Lawrence heat stroke death in 2005. You'll find that commanders no longer have the luxury of working their soldiers to death, or if they do, workcover has the option of prosecuting them for manslaughter. There is now a stringent policy and commensurate work tables contingent on heat stress (heat/humidity). They are used.

The 'coat psychological' that you refer to hasn't been seen since the early 90s. there have been three iterations of waterproof jackets since. The army issues a 3 layer nylon now - of a sort of goretex. I left two years ago: it's possible that kit has improved again - i do note that soldiers now wear a kind of base layer with a collar instead of the poly/cotton shirt in hot climates.

it should also be noted that soldiers aren't happy unless they're complaining.

[nq111]

Sorry jjoz58 but I never intended to make my post about the crap state (or otherwise) of the Australian military.

I would be more than happy to hear you debate my post or add to the content of the thread, but I do not accept my post as 'just garbage' - neither as a valid tone for this forum nor as an objective consideration of what I wrote.

[mickb]

nq111 I am ex infantry myself and agree with 99% of your summation of military gear and ethos.

Ive been reading your post again JJ' and can't see where you disagree with his actual points so much as being protective of the army in general. Take it easy mate

For me for 'bushwalking' or whatever we are doing here, I see army gear as a reliable system that will work, last and perform sure....but I am probably going to avoid as much as possible to buy other options that keep weight a little lower and comfort a little higher with similar performance as long as I take care of it

[Moondog55]

Just a point about the new US army cold weather gear and not applicable at all to the original query on hot wet tropics.
The new US army ECWCS gear is taken directly from the mountaineering community and is very very good because of it. Most of it is a direct copy of stuff that has existed in the mountaineering market place for years.
But even they got the Arctic over-parka wrong when compared to the original Fishtail.
Having had something to do with the Army myself and meeting up with the winter Adventure Training group all the time I have to say mickb and nq111 are close to the mark in my experience

[slparker]

Just a point about the new US army cold weather gear and not applicable at all to the original query on hot wet tropics.
The new US army ECWCS gear is taken directly from the mountaineering community and is very very good because of it. Most of it is a direct copy of stuff that has existed in the mountaineering market place for years.
But even they got the Arctic over-parka wrong when compared to the original Fishtail.
Having had something to do with the Army myself and meeting up with the winter Adventure Training group all the time I have to say mickb and nq111 are close to the mark in my experience

Adventure training wing buy civilian gear, which is why you see lots of Mont. They have a separate budget and different 'rules' around gear usage than a soldier on exercise.

[Moondog55]

Just a point about the new US army cold weather gear and not applicable at all to the original query on hot wet tropics.
The new US army ECWCS gear is taken directly from the mountaineering community and is very very good because of it. Most of it is a direct copy of stuff that has existed in the mountaineering market place for years.
But even they got the Arctic over-parka wrong when compared to the original Fishtail.
Having had something to do with the Army myself and meeting up with the winter Adventure Training group all the time I have to say mickb and nq111 are close to the mark in my experience

Adventure training wing buy civilian gear, which is why you see lots of Mont. They have a separate budget and different 'rules' around gear usage than a soldier on exercise.

Well aware of that, but the last lot I met were just back from A and were telling me they all used US ECWCS gear over there, nothing Australian was good enough for the cold over there and we were talking about the relative qualities of the surplus gear I was wearing. I have no idea what the army is issuing at the moment for winter but I'm sure it is chosen for cost and durability and not function and carried weight the last lot of pile and fleece were useless as far as I was concerned but weighed a lot less than the old Howard Green