Bivy bags? Might be a silly newbie question here... but...

[Alittleruff]

I guess with that kind of bivvy it would be like breathing under your coat when you are really cold.... I was breathing well and truly in my sleeping bag, because we were above the snow line and it was -2 degrees C. First hiking trip, and I loved being able to unzip and lie on my mattress. The sun during the day was glorious. The bivvy I have has a pole. Really liked that. It meant that I could store stuff at my head end, reach stuff during the night, and listen to a audio book

[Franco]

I bet that the first time you wake up needing to go to the toilet and it is raining hard outside, you will change your mind about bivy bags.

[Alittleruff]

Yes Franco That is why I am looking at a UL tent set up as well. But it was pretty lovely on Saturday night. Also with tents... depending on who you are hiking with, modesty may be required (school groups ect).

Sheer luck that it didn't rain and I didn't need the toilet at night.

[dunamis]

Think I might try this OR bivy
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/outdoor-re ... guest_open

Fabric, upper: Pertex Shield+ 2.5L, 100% nylon, 30D ripstop
Fabric, floor: 100% nylon, 70D with TPU lamination
Fully seam-taped
Five stake loops and one guy-line loop
Sleeping pad straps
Internal mesh pocket
Single shock-corded overhead Delrin pole
Removable netting
Weight, with pole: 18 oz (510 g)


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[Franco]

For 200g more (if you use trekking poles) you can get a fully enclosed shelter that you can sit up under, get changed and with a bit of care , even cook in the vestibule rain protected) as well as having your pack and boots out of the rain.
Keep in mind that I am with Tarptent and that is why a bivy by itself or bivy plus tarp makes no sense to me but we are not all the same...

[Mark F]

I agree with Franco except that my Solplex with pegs is lighter than the bivvy detailed.

I have never understood the value of a bivvy except for use in quite unusual situations in my SE Aus walking. If it is a lovely evening and I want to star gaze then I don't need one. If it is inclement then I want the room to cook inside the vestibule and to be able to unpack and pack up, my sleeping gear especially, out of the rain.

[Nuts]

They are ok dunamis, a bit squeezy, I'd plan on using the pad outside of that OR bivy unless you are small/ slim (have thought of cutting the pad strap outa mine..). The pertex 'breathes' but it's not a lot better than gore or event (to me). As mentioned there are better general purpose options than a bivy. Tedious on their own in heavy rain / cold.

Still, for a couple of 00g's more you could include an UL tarp I guess. Less initially stable, perhaps a bit more work/ less comfort in certain scenarios than tents but then again bivy 'ultimately' more bombproof than any tent.

PS. I bought one off mass drop but iirc the last Helium bivy was from an ebay sale, a fair bit cheaper again.

[dunamis]

For 200g more (if you use trekking poles) you can get a fully enclosed shelter that you can sit up under, get changed and with a bit of care , even cook in the vestibule rain protected) as well as having your pack and boots out of the rain.
Keep in mind that I am with Tarptent and that is why a bivy by itself or bivy plus tarp makes no sense to me but we are not all the same...

I might still go bivy/tarp combo. The thing I don't like about the tarp alone is water coming in under it


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[dunamis]

They are ok dunamis, a bit squeezy, I'd plan on using the pad outside of that OR bivy unless you are small/ slim (have thought of cutting the pad strap outa mine..). The pertex 'breathes' but it's not a lot better than gore or event (to me). As mentioned there are better general purpose options than a bivy. Tedious on their own in heavy rain / cold.

Still, for a couple of 00g's more you could include an UL tarp I guess. Less initially stable, perhaps a bit more work/ less comfort in certain scenarios than tents but then again bivy 'ultimately' more bombproof than any tent.

PS. I bought one off mass drop but iirc the last Helium bivy was from an ebay sale, a fair bit cheaper again.

I do a lot of walks with SES search n rescue. We carry a bit of gear and at times will need to carry stretchers etc. some searches might be multi day or at least overnight doing lots of k's so it would be good to be able to maybe chuck a UL tarp over my walking poles and roll out the bivy.

I also do a lot of day walks. Would like to chuck the bivy in the day pack in case someone snaps a leg or we get lost


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[Franco]

This is what I had in mind :

it is about 200g more than the OR bivy alone but lighter than bivy plus tarp + pegs (if not going with cuben but then the price goes up a lot) and packs smaller than the bivy . About 4"x12" but can be stuffed to any shape you like.(has no poles nor struts)
It would make less sense for day walks if you did not already carry walking poles but given that you do maybe it does.
franco@tarptent

[jdeks]

They are ok dunamis, a bit squeezy, I'd plan on using the pad outside of that OR bivy unless you are small/ slim (have thought of cutting the pad strap outa mine..). The pertex 'breathes' but it's not a lot better than gore or event (to me). As mentioned there are better general purpose options than a bivy. Tedious on their own in heavy rain / cold.

Still, for a couple of 00g's more you could include an UL tarp I guess. Less initially stable, perhaps a bit more work/ less comfort in certain scenarios than tents but then again bivy 'ultimately' more bombproof than any tent.

PS. I bought one off mass drop but iirc the last Helium bivy was from an ebay sale, a fair bit cheaper again.

I do a lot of walks with SES search n rescue. We carry a bit of gear and at times will need to carry stretchers etc. some searches might be multi day or at least overnight doing lots of k's so it would be good to be able to maybe chuck a UL tarp over my walking poles and roll out the bivy.

I also do a lot of day walks. Would like to chuck the bivy in the day pack in case someone snaps a leg or we get lost


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I used to use bivvy bags a LOT, both for work and leisure. I have fond memories of nights spent on Mt Bimberi, wedged in between rocks and dug down in snow, feeling pretty darn pleased with myself for being warm and snug without a tent....until I had to pee. Or eat. Or get changed. Or got condensation. But I still loved em ( even if night 3 always meant a damp sleeping bag). I lauded them to anyone I could. Why wouldn't you, back then?? 800g bivvy bag instead of a ~2kg tent? Hells yeah!

I'll be the first to admit now though, their time has passed. My Cricket is about 800g with poles and pegs. Within the scope of hiking use, it's superior in evry practical ways to any of the bivvy bags I ever had. No damp sleeping bag every morning. No stifling face cover when it rains. Space to get changed, pack up, eat, even cook and map. My pack and boots stays dry. Wonderfull.

Sure, you can chuck a tarp over a bivvy to notionally get some living room, but in practice, this rarely works as well as you imagine. Stringing a square cover tarp is actually probably more fiddly than the average centre-pole UL tent, so there goes the 'speed and simplicity' factor. And even then, it'll still blow away long before a cat-cut tarptent does. In even mild showers, you WILL get over spray and runoff all round the bivvy on your gear, and bugs will bug you the moment you leave the bag. Not to mention condensation remains a problem when youre IN the bag, and those darn bug nets always fall in your face no matter how tight you pull the cord. And unless you go for a particularly small tarp (and a particularly small sheltered area) you;re going to have something that's still around the 1kg mark - as pointed out, heavier than most UL 1-man tents today.


If you want a quick shelter for a kip out on a SAR, bivvy and tarp will take longer and be harder to jump in and out of than a tarptent. If someone snaps a leg on a day hike, you're not going to get them into a bivvy bag, and if you get lost and need to wait for help, something you can sit up in or use in hot weather will be much better.

The only reason to choose a bivvy over these is if you're in the niche fields of mountaineers, snow-cavers and military types. Anywhere you can pitch it, a tarp-tent will be better.

[Petew]

Hi,

Used to use a bivvy a lot as well, now use tents. Tarptent make some light options plus check out six moon designs Lunar Solo. With a carbon fibre pole and pegs it comes in at around 700g.

[rurik]

So after all that thinking, I finally did buy a bivy bag At 1.3kg I'm rapped that it will lighten the load in my pack. I've tested it out on the lounge room floor... yeah I know, I know. And it fits my mat in comfortably, fits me in comfortably and has a hoop to keep the bag off my face.

I ended up buying it on the spur of a moment while at Aussie disposals, for $100. It's a x-dutch army bag. It's a throw down, done kind of style that I like. No setting up rope lines galore. A small hoop will keep the fabric off my face. I like the idea of basic.

I have one of them and I love it, I always have a poncho tent or a hootchee with me anyway. I have spent a week and a half sleeping in it with no issues. The one time I had trouble was in the Blue Mountains when I did not bring them. I made it through the night fine it was just not very pleasant and I was glad I had a change of clothes in my car.


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[dunamis]

This is what I had in mind :

it is about 200g more than the OR bivy alone but lighter than bivy plus tarp + pegs (if not going with cuben but then the price goes up a lot) and packs smaller than the bivy . About 4"x12" but can be stuffed to any shape you like.(has no poles nor struts)
It would make less sense for day walks if you did not already carry walking poles but given that you do maybe it does.
franco@tarptent

Yeah I'm seriously looking at something like this but in poor conditions I just can't see myself being comfortable in it. I might make a tarp that I can use over my walking poles to augment the bivy


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[north-north-west]

Yeah I'm seriously looking at something like this but in poor conditions I just can't see myself being comfortable in it. I might make a tarp that I can use over my walking poles to augment the bivy

In poor conditions a bivy,even with a tarp, is going to be far less comfortable.

[Franco]

I don't get the "in poor conditions" comment either.
Can you elaborate on that ?

[Nuts]

Franco, I had a night hunkered down in the undergrowth on a Wombat track with a dangerous hours retreat and no surety of campsites ahead (after traversing the summit ridge). I can't imagine any tent other than maybe with a breathable single skin would have been possible, sleep in raingear and use it as a tarp slung over bushes and rocks?

Anyhow.. rare set of circumstances led to that situation but it's probably very much relevant to dunamis consideration and the situations S&R operate in (just hope for clear evenings and mornings lol) eg. It may not be as much a matter of getting a patient into a bivy as having somewhere to just lie down yourself, even if the chopper manages to get in you'd not be guaranteed a lift out.. a good chance, left somewhere steep.. in the dark. I'd hate to be the odd one out there? P&W service have/had a bunch of gore bivy's, I thought S&R would as well? Reassuring backup for day walks, agreed. If your a weight weeny you could consider using it as a pack liner as well. Silence the critics

[jdeks]

Yeah I'm seriously looking at something like this but in poor conditions I just can't see myself being comfortable in it. I might make a tarp that I can use over my walking poles to augment the bivy


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As someone who has done both quite a bit - In poor conditions, I just don't see you being comfortable in bivvy and tarp. At least not for any more than one night. It seems I'm not alone, either.

The bivvy setup you are imagining to be being a warm, snug ,weatherproof cocoon, safe and dry under a shielding tarp, is almost never that, especially in poor conditions. To try and put a bit of context to my assertions.....





This is just one of many bivvy camps I've made. The weather on that night was fairly mild: dipped to just below zero and only a light snow and mild wind. The kit here, all together, was well over the 3kg mark (appx 500g bivvy, 500g thermarest, 800g tarp, 1.5kg -25C sleeping bag ). On paper, the gear was lighter than a tent and if anything, overkill.



Hood open and tarp up, by 2am, the bag was damp with ice and condensation over the footbox, and I was getting very cold (in a -25C rated bag ), and my boots were frozen to the ground from blown snow.

No, I didn't die. But I had a broken, uncomfortable sleep, with cold feet, damp socks, damp boots, damp pack, damp everything - an experience I think basically every bivvyer has probably had many times.

This was lunch the next day - everything out to dry, hopefully, or face another night below freezing in a damp down bag. Another experience every bivvyer is familiar with. Pray you have a sunny lunch spot. Woe betide you if the weather turns wet for 2 days or more.





This was not a one off. This was standard procedure for me, for years. Tolerable, sure. Manageable with some care -yep. But - not that much lighter than a tent, (arguably heavier these days) and much less comfortable. I've since had far warmer sleeps in far worse weather with a tarp-tent kit about half the weight and sleeping quilt half the rating.

If you're buying primarily for SES duties and speed/versatility are of more operational concern than comfort - by all means, bivvy it it up. But excepting snow caves, cliff faces and gun pits, the reality is that without decent shelter, bivvy bags quickly become impractical, but with effective shelter, you don't really need the bivvy bag.