Upgrading gear for family overnighters, need help!

[Ctw]

Hi all - long time lurker, first time poster.......

We are planning our first overnight walk with our 2yr old and need to buy some new gear. He needs a mat, sleeping bag and head torch, we need a new tent to accommodate him!

We currently have an MSR Hubba Hubba which we love for the weight, head space and length (hubby is 185cm tall and broad shouldered), but need a 3 man to fit in our son. I'm tossing up between:

MSR Mutha Hubba NX
Big Agnes Copper Spur Ultralight 3 man
Tarptent Cloudburst 3
Any others? Which one would be best?

We only need 3 season, some nights might be down to zero but no snow camping, must be lightweight, needs to be long enough to accommodate hubby and head room is nice, we are happy to spend as much as needed so unlimited budget.

And for our son we need a sleeping bag - I'm thinking synthetic - easier to wash and not too bad if it gets wet - I have no idea about kids bags, weight is an issue but I want him to be warm.

A sleeping mat - something 3/4 length but warm, light and comfortable

And finally a head torch - something light and small

There seems to be a lot of gear targeted to kids in the US but finding Australian suppliers is harder. Any advice would be great!

[Lizzy]

Wow - fancy telling us lot you have unlimited budget- that should excite a few!! Beware they might give you their wish list- lol...
A 2 year old shouldn't really need much in terms of comfort for a mat- the cheap foam mat should be ok but they are bulky. If you are after something that packs down small one of the short versions of thermarest neoairs or expeds are good but more subject to failure if they are used as a trampoline. Maybe the older style self-inflating thermarest a like the women's pro lite would be a good compromise.

My kids have petzl tikkina (I think) which have been pretty good- at 2 they would probably be happy running around with a glow stick!!
Our kids are older and have down bags- if you can see you could make some with climashield apex from tier gear

[undercling-mike]

I've shared a friend's BA Copper spur UL3 as a roomy 2 person and I'm pretty sure it would meet your needs. Length was long enough for me at 177cm to put my pack inside below my feet and width would easily accommodate 2 adults and child. Similar design to your hubba hubba although thinner lighter fabric.

For the sleeping bag I think you're right to go synthetic, at that size weight and bulk shouldn't be too bad. Maybe bring an over-blanket for colder conditions.

[Ctw]

Ha ha, yes the unlimited budget is more that we know from experience you are better to buy best possible rather than burn through several ok tents, it works out cheaper in the long run and we plan on walking for many more years!
We have a few foam mats, we could even cut one down to size and see how that goes. I'm now starting to think I could give him my old self-inflating mat that I hate and keep meaning to upgrade, and get myself a more comfortable one.
The petzl tikkina looks good, he's a bit of a gear nut even at two, loves our head torches and insists on wearing them every time we go car camping, I figure this time he should get his own.
Thanks for the suggestions

[north-north-west]

How light is light for the tent? If you really aren't concerned about price then you should consider Hilleberg. Something like the Kaitum 3: 3.4kg, two doors, two vestibules, 2.2m end to end for the inner.

[Ctw]

Ideally closer to 2kg or 2.5kg, we will realistically only be doing 1-2 nights on each walk and for the next year or so our son will be carried at least half of the time, so we need to keep the weight down as much as possible. Even though we won't have a lot of food for 2-3 days one person having to carry all the gear will be heavy enough to be counting grams!

[simonm]

We have a Golite Shangri-la 5 which I find ideal for our family of four, unfortunately it is no longer in production, but there are similar out there. It is lightweight and offers plenty of space, which kids need especially if they bring a few of their favourite things - which mine do.

[Gadgetgeek]

The black diamond wiz is worth a look, its got a few things that are more kid friendly, and its not stupid bright when he looks in your face. has a 2 hour shut off which some might not like. The BD Gizmo is another basic one, and the old versions should be cheap.

Bags, you are right to go synthetic, between growth, kid-ness, and sleepovers, a decent synthetic bag will get more use, and be more enjoyable all around. a 3/4 trail thermarest would be enough, but I'd start with foam, and upgrade the weight when he's big enough to carry it.

As for warmth for a kid, they tend to sleep right into the cold, which means if you think he's at any risk for frostbite or hypothermia, he's better off sharing a bag with one or both adults. So while you are not planning on cold, it could happen. I have not done much camping with really little guys, but when my parents did it, they did joined bags with me in the middle. (as a very little tyke) but that was car camping stuff mostly. Just a thing to keep in mind if you are hitting those cold temps. besides, two square bags might end up as warmer and weighing less than three mummies. Or quilts, quilts are good.

[drakkar]

Can't help much with equipment choices as we can't hike as a family.
But... Kids sleeping bags are terrible. Your better off buying a second hand one and using a hair tie or similar to adjust the bags length so your pet monkey doesn't disappear down it.

Kids sleep hot. Especially when wedged between you. My daughter is comfortable below the snow line on a cheap 7mm Kathmandu 3/4 and a horrible toys-r-us 'Frozen' sleeping bag. And you know when she slips off her Mat as she gets super wriggly. Daytime clothing is more important.

[Ctw]

My son sleeps very hot (like his father) and him sleeping between us doesn't work, we've tried several times before and him and his father would rather be on top of the sleeping bag in summer PJs while I snuggle into the sleeping bag with winter PJs on. He definitely needs his own sleeping bag and mat. I think I will go for a foam mat cut to size since we already have a few lying around, and decide on a sleeping bag for him, the idea of a second hand one tied up sounds good.
Daytime clothing we are ok, he's been dragged along on many walks including 5 weeks of day walks the US last year, so apart from a new beanie we are pretty set.
The Black Diamond Wiz looks perfect, just something for him to feel like he has his own.
Tents I'm really unsure, thanks for all your suggestions, the GoLite Shangri-la 5 actually looks perfect - it's a shame they went broke!

[icefest]

I personally like lightweight tents and will mainly be focusing on the lighter side of things and will exclude the heavier stuff from my list. Feel free to compare with other suggestions.

You have several different choices to make. Firstly, do you want a two wall tent or single wall. The single wall is lighter but in inclement weather can be a bit more uncomfortable (touch the sidewalls and you get a bit wet).
The other main question you have is nylon vs cuben fibre. The latter is lighter, stronger, but more fragile (less abrasion resistant) and more expensive.

In this range you have:


The double wall tents are often more comfortable in long storms and warmer in cold weather but are often heavier and more expensive.

[Moondog55]

Not all kids bags are awful but a 2YO would benefit from a DIY sized big to fit up to ~5YO After about 5-7YO a kid can use an adults half bag and continue to use it when an adult or Mum / Dad can use it themselves
Just top insulation with a double layer bottom to fit a thick pad or simply add a sleeve to a cheaper store bought bag and add clothing as appropriate, better to warm than cold
My kids slept warm on snow using a short RidgeRest plus a short CCF [ light enough just bulky] and this would fit in a sleeve made to the correct size
My own experience taking kids bushwalking is that distances will be very short, mainly due to either the boredom factor or the sheer mass of a 2YO on the back and that where tents are concerned bigger is definitely better; much better if you get bad or even miserable weather
if you like the current tent [ Hubba Hubba] why not look at the Papa Hubba,
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/tents ... nx/product
yes it is heavier than you asked about but really you are not going to be walking very far really, or that's what my personal experience tells me anyway.

[jakeyarwood]

Regarding shelters...
Here are some similar options to what Simon suggested, both of which are paired with their own dedicated inner net tents purchased separately. These are offered in cuben (expensive and super light) and silnylon (cheaper and heavier):
- Mountain Laurel Designs Supermid http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... cts_id=130
- Locus Gear Khafra http://locusgear.com/items/khafra-ctf3/?lang=en or http://locusgear.com/items/khafra-sil/?lang=en

LG offer more varied inner net tents which could be advantageous if you'd like a little space outside of your clean/dry sleeping area to stow gear etc. Not sure if that's viable with the MLD Supermid and the inner they offer for it? It'd be worth reaching out to either company in any case if you're curious about anything.

In terms of a headlamp, perhaps a petzl e+lite could be a worthy choice? It's light, durable and waterproof Plus it has no buttons to fiddle with, just a simple lever style switch.

[jp80]

We picked up some gear a couple of years ago in a similar situation to what you describe. An 18 month old in tow, we did 20 nights or so through the US mountain states in Autumn. Since then the set up has been through mid-summer (hot, supremely humid and wet) Japan for another 20 night trip, the beach many times, car camping in Namadgi, and heaps of other work.

We didnt have an unlimited budget, but went for stuff that we knew we could hike a few hours with. For little dude we got a Mountain Hardwear Mouuntain goat, which is good to -5C or so? Her first night in it (and any tent) was at 2000m and -2C and she was fine in that and whatever else has come our way. It still going now for her as a 5 year old. Its synthetic, and kind of voluminous, but can compress pretty well. We just have a 3/4 self inflating mat for her now, but as a tiny kid we had her on a Multimat 5mm open cell foam thing... that mat is so instantly warm! And for someone 10kg or so it was plenty of cush.

She has a petzl tikkina and loves it, and I like it too... I prefer the hard and positive "clicking" button to the other grown up petzls we have.

i won't mention sea to summit aeros pillows, since I'm sure everyone on the forum already has and treasures one.

My biggest advice would be to sway in the direction of a bigger and hardier tent rather than a hyperlight one.We have a marmot limelight 4, which weighs about 4kg. The floor is strong, the poles are strong, it has some good tie outs and has been everywhere, from beach to a ski tour around falls creek, and its so good! I wish they made a 6P version. You can set it up with fly high and very good ventilation, or low for snow and cold temps.
The bottom line is, nothing feels flimsy on it, I trust it a lot. We also have a Hilleberg Keron 4 GT, which is heavier and tougher again but it sees little use.. Maybe in Tas it will.

PS I wish I had bought a Shangri-la 5 when they were around, too!

[johnrs]

Hi CTW
Luxe tents does a number of reasonably priced mids.
Quite well made too.
http://www.luxeoutdoor.com/eng/index.asp

John

[jakeyarwood]

Hey Ctw - just wondering what shelter you ended up opting for?