Sorry- another pack question

[the_camera_poser]

Ok guys- sorry to pound on the dead horse, but here goes:

I'm in debate between the WE Lost World (115 litres) and the Karijini (90 litres). The only reason why I'm considering the bigger pack is because of my duties as the family pack mule. I'd like to be able to do a 8-nighter in Summer out of hte pack. I think after al lthe debating and searching we're going to get a WE Breakout for the wife, so she'll be carrying the big light things like the sleeping bags and air mats, and the camera gear and a bit of water. Here's what I'll be carrying (clothes and food are for two adults and a kid):

Pocket Knife
20 Metres of Nylon Cord
Whistle
Zip-Lock Bags
Rubbish Bags
Waterproof Matches
First Aid Kit + Medicine
Headlight
GPS/EPIRB
Coleman Phad X3 Tent (3 person with good-sized vestibule)
Food in separate bags (for all of us)
Kovea Stove and Lantern (Butane)
Polycarbonate Utensils + Dish Sets x3
Pack Towel + Face Washer x3
Cup
Plastic Trowel
Toilet Paper
Tooth Paste
Camp Soap
Tatonka Cook Set
Pot Scrubber
Bulk of Clothes for all three of us
MAYBE 1 synthetic sleeping bag, a light carbon fibre tripod and ball head, and 1 litre of water.

I reckon a 90 litre pack would be enough, but I'm not sure. What do you think?

[dee_legg]

Have you considered buying a cheap pack liner that would fit either... for about $20 odd dollars, then taking it home, filling it with the above gear then back to your friendly outdoors shop and trying to fit the *&%$#! in both packs?

[the_camera_poser]

not a bad idea, but the problem is finding them in stock in a store anywhere near to here. Blooming nuisance!

When in doubt, go the bigger, may have to be the motto here.

[dee_legg]

yeah i hadn't thought of that, always an issue. i would suggest going bigger then you always have to option to return it or sell it onwards if it's completely unsuitable.

[the_camera_poser]

Well, last time I bought a pack I went down in size, so I wouldn't be tempted to pack as much as I did when I was a strapping young lad. But it does make sense to get the biggest possible. I guess it's likely that I could even end up carrying everything, and the wife might lug all the camera gear (around 15kg) for a trip to someplace like the Walls or Scott Kilvert, where we'd set up a base camp and go off on day hikes.

Thanks for the sounding board Dee! I'll go with the big one.

[sthughes]

Good idea I reckon
You can take less in a big one - you can't take more in a small (or should I say 'less big') one.

[the_camera_poser]

Not without suspending it off the pack somehow, much to the delight of scoparia.....

Thanks guys.

[Ent]

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[the_camera_poser]

I'm pretty solid, though not in the best shape. The most I'd see myself carrying would be around 30kg, and really, I'd prefer to keep it under 25kg (really under 20 to be honest). Another good point. Hmmm......

According to my rough calculations, on a normal, through hike, I'm looking at around 17.5 kg in the pack, plus 2kg/day for food, a bit of which might be shared out among the hordes. Roughly 7.5 kg of that weight is people's clothing, which is pretty bulky.

BUT, for the short, base-camp hike (walking into a central spot and camping), where the wife would lug the camera gear, I could add 8 kg to that, which would be two sythetic sleeping bags, three sleeping mats, and a tripod or two. This would be to somewhere like Cockle Creek, the Walls, Scott Kilvert (30kg up Marions- oh goodie!), or Lee's Paddock.

So, I'd need to be able to carry 30kg for shortish distances.

[sthughes]

I was thinking a synthetic sleeping bag and especially a light a tripod = very bulky but not very heavy so I'd allow the extra. Same can be said for some food depending on your tastes (English muffins for me ). Lost world is only 105L by the way on the WE web site 115 is 10% more again.

[the_camera_poser]

I was thinking a synthetic sleeping bag and especially a light a tripod = very bulky but not very heavy so I'd allow the extra. Same can be said for some food depending on your tastes (English muffins for me ). Lost world is only 105L by the way on the WE web site 115 is 10% more again.

Whoops- you're right. 105 litres.

[tasadam]

You say Helen will be carrying the big light things... Sleeping bags etc.
They do take up a bit of room, and you can end up with a very manageable weight in a pack that has a bit of bulk.
How big is her pack - how many litres?
With my wife and I, her pack is a Macpac Esprit 65L and I have the Cascade which is 75L. I only recently upgraded to the Cascade from my old Macpac Ravine which is 65L and still a great pack.
With those two packs (combined 130L or 140L), we have done walks as long as 9 days. And as well as bushwalking gear, food etc, we had with us two tripods, 2 DSLR bodies, 5 lenses, camera bag, 9 batteries, memory cards cleaning apparatus etc. Starting out with combined pack weight around 47 kilo's, possibly a whisker more.

Because you have already taken care of large-ish light-ish (nothing is light when you have to carry it in a pack) items in Helen's pack, I really think the 90L will be plenty.
As was said, best to get all your gear trial-packed in plastic bags and take it into a store, try it in a similarly sized pack.

Then again, I have no idea how much space is needed in a pack to go walking with children.

[the_camera_poser]

Adam- with Laura- you've got a sleeping bag that is about the size of a mid-sized down bag, but she'll carry that. She'll eat almost as much as an adult (about 70%), and drink as much as an adult. The biggest problem with the child is clothing- because of her surface area-to-mass ratio, she requires more clothing that us. While that clothing is maybe 25% of the size of mine, there has to be more of it. Especially when you consider that she isn't as careful about getting wet/muddy as we are- in fact it's quite the opposite- she's a little mud-pig. Then there's night-time nappies, which she doesn't wear at home, but are needed for the trail, just in case she has an accident in her sleeping bag. And she requires a sleeping mat and a place in the tent, so it means 3-person tent rather than two. So over all, she adds around 1/2-2/3rds of an adult's load, but can only carry around 2-3 kg.

When she's a bit older (7-8), Tatonka makes a properly suspended kid's pack that'd be ideal- it's around 13 litres, has all the belts/straps and a frame. For now, she'll carry her sleeping bag, rain gear, a litre of water and a few snacks, and Gerald the Giraffe, the trusted and loyal friend.