Tent/shelter for humidity

[Neo]

G'day folks
I'm looking for advice on a tent style to suit humid conditions. Mainly will a single wall shelter be a hassle?

I live on the mid north coast of NSW. Local conditions are coastal, wetland pockets, dry bush and hinterland/rainforest. So all quite likely to be moist any time of the year, at least overnight.
I am more likely to camp here or further north rather than say south of Sydney. No snow, plenty of bugs and some chance of heavy rain. Most of the time weather should be fine so I'm imagining fly rolled back and catch the breezes!

I'm upgrading soon and I'm eying off the BSI Mirage 2p hybrid, $550 through BPL under 1.2kg.

I've researched the deal with minimising condensation and my experience with double layer tents is that you can remove the fly and flip it/dry it out easily. With a tarp tent style or a hybrid construction it seems you would just wipe down the worst of it and then the interior will dry when you put it up the next arvo? So a hybrid or single wall shouldn't be much of a bother...

I'm used to double wall dome style tents. For car camping I have a Malamoo Xtra 3p that has been to QLD and central Australia. My first hike tent is the EPE Spartan 2 being a double wall inner first 2p tent. A great tent design for the price ($180) but too heavy for solo hikes at 2.4kg, actually closer to 2.6 with all the bits on the old kitchen scales...boo

Looking to drop that down to 1 or 1.5kg max. for my solo shelter.

I'm 6'2 and fit in a 2.1m dome OK. I've almost talked myself out of the BSI Soul 1p only due to the vertical entry, otherwise I like the simple cross pole design and small footprint. Internal dimensions are equivalent to other 1p models but maybe more useable space. I wonder if BarryK has had his out in bad weather yet.

The Mirage is 2.3m so quite palatial and not much larger external dimensions, 'integral'pitch as its a single layer so might be handy if setting up in the rain. It's also cheaper and lighter than the Revolution and Chinook models which are a bit pricey for me.

Also on my shortlist are the TT Protrail or Motrail approx AUD$400. Though I'm not currently using trekking poles and I lean towards the versatility of 2 peg 'almost' freestanding for hard or sandy soils.

Many gigabytes and fuzzy eyes later I think I've narrowed my search to a BSI or TT. Off my list are some double layer tents like MSR, One Planet for weight and price, the Easton Kilo it's bright yellow and thought about the MH Ghost but not liking the tapered foot areas of these amongst other aspects. Can't afford Cuben but willing to spend a bit more this time.

Let me know what you've got or have used in the northern half of Australia and the tropics.

Thanks for reading
Cheers, Neo.

[damoprz]

I am about 189cm and have found the Big Sky Evolution/Revolution 2p is a great tent. Big vestibules, well designed, well made and it is light-ish, but not ultralight. It is pricey too.

I have since moved on to a HMG Echo II in combo with a S2S nano bug-net, saves me around a kg since I use trekking poles.

[Stroller]

I've got a single skin tarptent. Its got a removable inner layer which is good in cold conditions when condensation is very likely. Note they say that camping under trees reduces condensation though i guess in this country you have to be careful about falling branches.

You can reduce condensation by opening the door a little to further even out the temperature difference.

I had a look at the pics of the protrail and the only thing i wonder about is sitting up. Will it be high enough where your hips are or will you have to sit back to the full height area. I'd say this tent would be fine so long as you don't want to spend much time in it and the only time you do is on your back. So yes fairly warm conditions would best. And not so good if you expect rainy conditions. Unless you are a tough guy.

Other than that, the materials and things of the tarp tents are good. The mesh is very fine so it may not let a lot of cool air in so unzipping a bit would make it cooler if its a warm night.

Also i guess the condensation will run down the sides rather than drip onto you if there is any. Mine is a tunnel shaped tent so it will drip and its also hard to keep it pitched taught because its so big. I have a three man cloudburst. But I love the space.

[dagsands]

Neo, the BSI mirage is a hybrid designed for low humidity areas, as it says on their website. Not recommended for use in humid areas.

[Franco]

For the usable space/comments on the TT Notch, take a look at these threads :
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/78446/
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/archive ... 91141.html

I'm 5'8"

[Neo]

Thanks. I note the disclaimer about humid conditions, wondered how much of an issue it would be. Even in cool conditions it'd be warm inside cold on the outer. Probably more sensible to stretch to the Revolution. Maybe a case of minimise and deal with it.
The TT design looks great with the mesh skirt to deflect the runs from pooling and can access the underside to dry it by hand. Worthwhile doing a mock up to see how I fit.
Somewhere here in a cooking thread is a pic of Franco using a poncho as a vestibule extension.

[Neo]

Hmm I'd better lug the Spartan out again and ponder leaving the dome design behind. Cheers

[Franco]

"Somewhere here in a cooking thread is a pic of Franco using a poncho as a vestibule extension."
That was with a TT Rainbow.
The Notch has larger vestibules and if I really wanted I could just undo the inner but there is more than enough space for me to cook under the fly all zipped up .
(there is still good airflow ...)

[Neo]

"Somewhere here in a cooking thread is a pic of Franco using a poncho as a vestibule extension."

Here's that old topic

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3513&p=39180&hilit=Cooking+tent+poncho#p39180

The Rainbow and a Contrail extension, great multi use of gear.

[Neo]

So I've marked out the bathtub and ridge line dimensions of the Protrail. Yep I shuffle back a little to sit up. Can sit inside the high end fine. Easiest for me to dive in head first and sit up from that way, let's me flail my legs around too and stretch the hips. The dotted line is the Motrail bathtub and an estimate of the vestibule. A BSI 1p would be a pinch longer but 100mm narrower than the Protrail line. Not sure of bathtub dimensions of the Notch.

[Franco]

all of our shelters have the floor plan under Specs Show Dimensions

[andrewa]

? Z packs - my hexamid twin is my perfect solo tent for summer conditions. Plenty of ventilation and space. I put my own vestibule on, coz I like some outside cover, but the mesh floor allows wet gear to be stored inside without compromising the waterproof floor concept - you just pull the floor back a bit where the wet stuff needs to drain.

I found the whole concept of built in mesh floor, with optional cuben floor to clip inside somewhat odd, but, having used it, it really works very well.

A

[Neo]

Cheers Franco I converted to 2130, 500 at the ends and 860 in the middle.
Andrew you've got me interested in those space bags now.

[johnrs]

Hi Neo
How tall are you?
Sounds like quite a roomy fit in the Protrail.
John

[Neo]

Hi John
About 188cm at the start of the day! It's looking pretty good. Turning around is a bit tricky, head first is ideal and should be airy enough. That's a new short Nemo mat I'll be testing on the weekend.
The Zpacks Solo-plus looks funky but double the dollars

[johnrs]

Well Neo
Please let us all know how you go
John

[legend]

I am 6'2" and have used the Tarptent Notch, Stratospire 1, 2 and now use the Double Moment.
I have found the Double Moment has the most head room and is the longest of the tents (Franco has posted photos of me in this tent).
It is a great two person tent, and when used in heat, is the coolest tent I have owned. It good sized vestibules (but not as large as the Stratospire i and 2).
They are all great tents, The Notch is the smallest but quite long (enough to put your food/pack up one end), but quite narrow.
Both the Stratospire tents are perhaps the strongest depending on how they are pitched, but the Double Moment has handled winds to 80kph on the Main Range (used with the long middle pole).
Cheers
Chris

[Neo]

Thanks for your interest and suggestions. I'm back from a hike with the Spartan, I set out in the rain so also took a 3x3 tarp and pole. The extra area made it quite comfortable but I'm now recovering from the weight! Had the tarp set up in an A frame off the side of the tent. Some light condensation under the tarp. Next day was sunny and I relocated. Then this morning there was dripping condensation under the tarp even with this open pitch, I guess due to ground moisture. Temps were forecast 8 to 21 (topped 15) humidity 86% then 7 to 20 humidity 60's.

So I'm still undecided about a TT or hybrid for coastal NSW. My body will definitely need the weight savings. Last month which had been dry I've spent 3 nights each in my existing tents. Appreciate the room to manoeuvre in a 2p dome. Dew after dark is quite heavy, condensation under the fly was minimal then. Saving for a cuben mid might cover all my desires. Or a collection of great tents along the way.

[nq111]

There is not much you can do in some conditions, even under an open tarp. On occasion I've been quite damp in the morning even in my hammock and tarp as the humidity / dew has been so high.

Only thing I do observe is that my cuben tarp seems to 'attract' less condensation than silnylon. I can't think of a sensible explanation for why this may be but some other cuben users have observed similar. Doesn't stop the dew settling on me inside the hammock but significantly reduces the amount of drips from condensation on the underside of the tarp.

[biggbird]

Zpacks Duplex? Sounds like it will tick all your boxes outside of price.

[Neo]

I see there are a few northerners here. I'm willing to give a single skin or hybrid a go.
Zpacks Hexamid solo+ is for consideration. Their shelters are 10 peg systems though, but then I contradict myself by adding a tarp!
Alpsport have had the 4midable for $351 but the new half nest adds 750g.
Still leaning towards my first two picks, with a poncho tarp extension.

I'm at the point of determining if my hips and back are able to cope, therefore if forking out for some ultralight upgrades is worthwhile, or if I stick more to vehicle based camping and day walks. I'll probably get some walking poles first which will increase my shelter options. The budget is on pause until mid November so I'll go out again next week and once or twice more to help figure that out.

[Neo]

OK thanks for the input. I've finally decided and ordered a Protrail.

How...
Regarding humidity, no worries. I'm at the bottom end of the sub tropics anyway. It looks to have better airflow compared to the one pole hybrid mids (videos and instructions for those suggest finding sticks to lift the edges).

Useable space, I'm liking the modern take on the A-frame which puts the high points above the body compared to mids whose flatter edges require additional tie-outs and sticks to gain their 'room'.

End entry vs side, no worries. For any small tent I will do a crouching-turn-and-sit in the doorway. Only trick is spinning around...

Tarp style instead of dome, I've just started using walking poles (also ordered the TT pole set while I was at it).

Weight, I drop a whopping 1.7kg of my current hike tent! Using the equipment feature of the site I've also identified some further weight reduction with minor changes.

So time will tell but I'm sure I'll be very happy. Unfortunately/fortunately I have two trips away so won't get to sleep in the Protrail until new year. Should be able to set it up and seam seal in between trips.
Thanks
Neo

[Neo]

So I went with a Protrail as per my gear review and am very happy, condensation not much of a bother.
Now I'm planning to move to the mountains in winter and considering an aluminum canopy setup on my vehicle to get me through a couple of months of winter instead of wasted money on rent.
Should be the same situation as camping, suitable clothing to stay warm when not moving...
Has anyone done this and had cold or moisture problems sleeping in a metal box?
I figure instead of paying for accommodation, setting up my vehicle is better as most places to go walking I have to travel there first.
Cheers

[Gadgetgeek]

windchill will become a factor in a metal box, I've been in situations where over-night the camper got colder than outside air temp would have suggested. Depending on your setup, you can do things like having a thermal well by having your sleeping area raised up. How far below zero are you thinking you might end up? (I'm not so up on the temp ranges possible here in aus) That said, every bit of insulation from conduction to the vehicle will help, so even having a sealed air gap on the inside would be of some help if full insulation wasn't possible.

An advantage to a solid side enclosure is that heating safely is much more of an option, catalytic heater, ventilation and a CO monitor and a lot of the discussion becomes irrelevant. A disadvantage to vehicles is all that thermally conductive mass that really wants to suck heat away.

[Neo]

Thanks GG I'd thought of insulating myself from the floor and wasn't sure about the other sides/roof. Adds a fair bit of work and cost.

Oh the lowest I guess could be a minus 10 otherwise either side of zero at night for a few months.

[Mickl]

If its in a canopy on the back of your car you could add a diesel heater. There are a few versions on Ebay and online that are under $1K if thats within your budget.

[Moondog55]

What sort of body height over the sleeping area Neo?
Need not cost much at all if looks are not a priority.
A sheet of styrene foam on the floor will give all the insulation needed there then a foam mattress protected with a couple of plastic rubbish bags and a blanket
Scrap styrene foam glued to the roof works if it is a flat roof, old Op-Shop doonas and / or blankets used as bulk insulation on roof and walls, just hung on bits of strong cord
I was homeless for a while [ employed but without accomodation] and had to use the tray of my old Dyna to sleep in, you can do a lot with a plastic tarp and a few tent poles

[Neo]

Good ideas there. A heater would blow the budget. I need to be mobile and lockup so was looking at an aluminum canopy 1m height so I can sit up, just. Save the hassle of tent and tarp, just park. Can get away without a fridge.

[Moondog55]

A couple of ways to improve any canopy is an Alice Springs/Safari roof; basically a second skin with an airspace as on early LandRovers. A large roof rack with a sheet bottom does the same job at the expense of a greater fuel consumption when lead footed, you can throw a fly/tarp over the cabinin a couple of seconds with practice and trap heat that way.
Carry an old wheel rim with you for a portable firepit, heat a big rock in the fire then put the hot rock in the space for a radiant heater. Assuming you have time of course and have a nice big basalt rock

[Neo]

I'm committed now, the canopy is half built.
Got 900x900 holed rubber mats which will go between the tray and canopy.
Inside I will use black eva ccf interlocking mats for the floor from target.
Having some ribs put on the ceiling so I can sheet it with thin ply, probably a rockwool insulation also so that should stop warm air inside meeting the cold aluminum.
Also sheet part of the return/slope over the bed side.
Probably use the eva on the walls on the bed side using sticky velcro dots.
Have also picked up a solar vent made for boats that you can change the blade to either blow in or blow air out.