Sun Avoidance

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Hi BWers.

One of the most annoying things when I go out for a multi day trip is sunscreen and sun avoidance. I walk in hiking shorts, gaiters, and an active wear type tshirt (sometimes with a collar).

I'm a pale redhead who burns very easily. Very few sunscreens other than white zinc cream protect me well. The best I've found is cancer council active SPF 50 because it's not too thick, although I really do need to reapply it liberally and rub it in very aggressively to be protected. The problems I get on a mulitday walk:

1. I use a whole 150g tube in a week
2. I waste 10-15 minutes stopping every 2 hours to reapply. Sometimes I might have to reapply 5 times a day
3. I arrive at camp a greasy, disgusting, oily mess - especially if I'm sweating, as it pushes the 5 layers of sunscreen out of my skin
4. I then have to spend 20 minutes with a microfibre towel and water wiping it all off, so that I don't destroy my sleeping gear with all the oily sunscreen. If there's no water at camp it's a real pain to get clean enough to climb into the sleeping bag.

I've decided a new approach is needed so that I waste less time every day (more time to enjoy nature).

Hat - I'll be exchanging my bucket hut (and any remaining sense of pride) for a legionnaires hat, with the big long flaps down the back and around the sides. This should prevent me from having to apply sunscreen to my neck (which burns the worst) and my ears. Any recommendations?

Tshirt - I'll be looking at long sleeve hiking shirts (with pit vents and collar) so that my arms don't require sunscreen (just back of my hands). Must be VERY lightweight. Any recommendations?

Shorts - I just don't think I can manage walking in pants in hot weather. With gaiters and shorts only a short section of my knee is exposed to the sun anyway so I'll have to live with that I think, unless anyone has any good ideas?

Sunscreen - I should need a lot less not having to worry about my arms or neck and ears, so wondering how people repackage? Film cannisters look too risky, and I'll be repackaging 80% DEET too because I find I've used it very infrequently in Tasmania. I need something small, light, and with a screw on top. Sunscreen - I'll need about 50ml now, and DEET maybe 20ml max. What do people use?

Thanks for any help/advice/suggestions.

[slparker]

Shirt - lightweight polyester zip shirt.

like this: http://www.adventuremegastore.com.au/br ... black-mens

This is sunproof with Sunscreen for the 'v' of the neck and lightweight polyester breathes very well and dries quickly. will pill when bushbashing though - also good for cycling/kayaking etc. Nylon is hot but tougher.

pants - I hate trousers on a hot day but I use mont nylon walking pants if the terrain is particularly scratchy or I'm in a sustained alpine area. they breathe pretty well.

[Moondog55]

Fishing shirts from BCF; they have vented backs, mesh insets under the pits [ not all of them tho so you need to shop] buy a size larger for airflow
Sew a pair of pull-on pants using the cheap polyester open mesh and wear the shorts over the top, it's SPF 10 or thereabouts but a double layer is much higher or if rolling in cash a linen/silk blend.
The linen/silk blend pants won't wear well but are incredible comfortable and light as a feather to wear
LW linen/silk blends are about $24 to $40 a running metre but you only need a small amount depending on your height
Cheap polyester running shorts to take the wear and tear
Kepi style hat with a deep flap from OR/Patagonia and other places [ AKA The Glacier cap] or keep the bucket cap and sew in a deep flap of mesh inside it, flick it up and out of the way when not needed, linen/silk blend is good here

[Mark F]

Not ideal for wet or cold conditions but I have found old poly-cotton business shirts work well for heat and sun. Oversize them and don't tuck them in so you get good air flow.

[CasualNerd]

I bought one of these while traveling and it's the best hiking shirt for summer - high neck, vented, SPF30, tab to roll up the sleeves, comfy, not even daggy, ~200gms.
http://www.columbia.com/mens-silver-rid ... M7441.html

With a wide brimmed sun hat like this: http://www.mont.com.au/other-gear/sun-hat-tumbleweed I don't need sunscreen on my neck. I wear lightweight stretch macpac hiking pants which are just as comfortable as shorts, and now all I need to sunscreen is the back of my hands.

[Tortoise]

Hey there SAH,

Years ago I gave up using sunscreen most of the time, in favour of clothing. Apart from the yukkiness that you describe so well, and the bother of getting it all off at the end of the day (or if I want a swim in a lake along the way etc), I'm just waiting till we find out what nasty things such nasty goop is doing to us, absorbed so nicely through the skin.
I do feel the heat, so I needed to come up with something that I can cope with.

Hat: lightweight hat with mesh bits and about a 7cm wide brim. No good in the wind (and it's usually windy in Tassie mountains), so I took the outer plastic coating off some curtain wire, ending up with the spring-like stuff that's used for Akubras. I unpicked a bit of the outer seam, and threaded it through. I made it a little shorter that the circumference of the hat (making the brim a bit convex), so it usually stays put in the wind. Since I did that, the foreign legion super-duper versatile thingies have come out - but I think my hat will still do parts of the face better with a bit less tunnel vision.

Shirt:
Got as light-weight, quick drying fabric as possible, with mesh vents. It has 2 button positions on the cuff - loose to let lots of air in, or firmer when it's cold.

Long pants:
Again, went with as light-weight, quick drying fabric as possible. I usually take thicker ones if there's a lot of scrub bashing to be done.
For really hot weather I use light weight pants that I cut off 3/4 length. There's enough overlap with my gaiters so that even when it's windy, there's rarely any exposed skin. Plenty of air movement, as they just hang very loosely over my gaiters. Maybe not a great fashion statement, but the wombats don't seem to care.

[taipan821]

I don't use sunscreen when hiking, this is my outfit for sunny/mozzie/dense conditions

Hat, broad brim floppy hat (nylon) the brim sags and covers my head just fine. I also wear a headsox that covers my neck, lower face and ears

Shirt: I wear a long sleeve cycling jersey I bought from anaconda, good coverage and dries fast.
I also wear gloves while hiking just to protect my hands, they're thin and old and work well

pants: I wear long pants regardless of the conditions

I don't need sunscreen, I don't need alot of mozzie repellent, I'm covered

[peregrinator]

There are some excellent suggestions here. I will add two for consideration. Shirt: lightweight merino wool. Hat: add a head net. Not only useful for insect avoidance. I found that use of the net means I do not need to wear sunglasses, as the mesh blocks much of the glare. I assume that means that some of the UV is also blocked. But maybe I'm wrong!

[Gadgetgeek]

Lots of good advice for clothing so far. I do long sleeves and pants most of the time since I find its actually cooler than shorts in the direct sun, then vent everything when in the shade.

as for re-packaging, DEET is best in whatever it came in, since it will destroy any other container, or make it useless for other purchases. I use humangear gootubes for sunblock, they work for some kinds, not others so you have to trial it, but a week is generally workable I've found. Otherwise the small PET nalgene jars are a good option since they are light, and come in a variety of sizes, get a widemouth one. That said, they are not as cheap here as they should be, so that's a downside.

Mesh for UV can work, depends on what its made out of. Some makers rate it, might need to test it with one of those UV keyrings.

[photohiker]

After a long time tuning my outdoor clothing, my selection that suits myself and maybe others

Hat: Sunday Afternoons Adventure hat. This works well unless the wind is high. If the wind is too high, I will use a cap with a neck protector.

Shirt: Ex Officio Sol Cool long sleeve half zip shirt (or the sol cool ultimate hoody)

Trousers: Prana Zion shorts. They are long shorts and leave only a small gap between gaiters and shorts.

[nq111]

South_Aussie_Hiker, I share your hatred of sunscreen. One, I never seem to reapply in time so get somwht burn. Two, it is not nice on the skin and I believe makes you feel hotter in the long run (and certainly stickier).

You want some good, long sleeve and leg skin tight baselayers. The very thin nylon/lycra or polyester/lycra ones. Wear these under a light shorts and shirt (e.g. runner type shirt) and over the course of the day you will be cooler than with sunscreen and won;t get burnt. Skin tight is cooler than loose fitting for active wear.

Polyester is in theory cooler than nylon, but I have found the very thin nylon nobrand baselayers to be not noticeably warmer than polyester and they do seem a little more durable. Many of the better brands are fitted and for 'no show' around the neck line under a t-shirt. You don't want that. Some of the cheaper models have good turtle necks which add a lot to sun protection (back of the neck is hard to protect). The turtle necks are a bit warmer without a doubt but without getting burnt or needing sunscreen at all you will feel cooler at the end of the day. I get some cheap ones on ebay for less than $20 and the other good thing is you don't need to feel bad about bushbashing in them and replacing fairly often.

Complete the set up with two Buff's / headsox (one up to the eyes, and one over the top bandana style). With sunglasses and that setup you are almost without skin to get sunburnt. Just note you need a high collar on your shirt (E.g. my turtlenecks) or there is a gap between the Buff and the top of the baslayer.

It is amazing how much less tired you are at the end of the day if you don't get any sunburn (even mild).

For the back of the hands for walking I do use a little sunscreen. On the kayak, i use gloves.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Wow! An amazing response to my questions. This is why I love BW.com!

I'm away with work until tomorrow night, so keep the great info flowing until then and I'll try and get a response together.

[lseries92]

For a "legionaries style" hat, you may want to look at a Frillneck (aka Araphat). I bought this originally for kayaking but also use it for walking. I believe the Adapt-a-cap (which is at BCF) is similar but does not use velcro.

What I like about the Frillneck is the amount of coverage you can get depending on your circumstance (right up to only exposing your eyes if you need to go to this extreme). This page has examples (http://www.frillneck.com.au/catalog/howtowear.php). I normally either wear it covering the back of my neck only, fixed at the front to cover the top of my chest/neck as well (good if it is windy) or - if it is not sunny - run the flap through a loop at the back to keep it out of the way (like a pony tail). If it is *really* windy it has loops that allow you to add a chin strap (I have not bothered doing this).

It obviously a little more stuffy than a normal broad brim hat on a hot day without air movement however I regulate the temperature by wetting the entire flap regularly if it is really hot (so I do not use a bandana/buff etc). While you can wrap your head up well, I still use a bug net as normally if you are worried about something like flies, it is normally too hot to do this.

As for being hot in long pants, I have a couple of pairs of Columbia Silver Ridge convertibles. They are very light, UPF rated while they could be a little more hardy (I have had to patch them a few times) I have never felt they were too hot to walk in. Even if you get something a little less delicate and possibly a little more on the hot side, if they are convertibles, you at least have the option of wearing them as longs when it is suitable and shorts when it is not. I have recently ordered some Prana's which will be more hardy but I suspect not as cool to walk in (but I plan to do the OLT next year so this will come in handy).

Another thing I have done is grow a beard to help provide some extra protection to the lower part of my face and under the chin. Being clean-shaven all my life It drove me bonkers initially but I believe it has been worth it. I did this to help protect again the reflected sun off the water due to all the paddling I do but I think it will come in handy for walking too. While I still use sunscreen it is normally only on the nose/cheeks/forehead/back of hands (if not wearing gloves). I tend to use less cream and reapply less often than I used to mainly as previously I was so horribly paranoid about getting burnt (again!) that I would over-do it, leading to the "greasy, disgusting, oily mess" at day's end you mention.

[simonm]

Lots of good ideas already.

Hat wise - I am quite fond of my Kavu Chillba hat which I initially bought for sea kayaking but works equally well on land. It's cool in summer, plenty of coverage, when the wind picks up you can cinch it down and folds up to a small package when not needed - http://shop.expeditionkayaks.com/produc ... hillba-hat. Buffs are also great and I carry a couple of those.

Like lseries92 I have also grown a beard but mostly through laziness.

[vanNek]

Buff or similar... I detest sunscreen because I sweat like a pig and it feel disgusting at the end of the day.

A buff is the best best off anti sun kit I own!

Also try dri-screen. Feels a lot nicer available from BcF


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[benoloughlin]

I wear a wide brim hat with legionnaires flaps at the side and back. I think it came from Katmandu but you can get similar ones from Macpac and no doubt Paddy Palin or othr gear stores.
I'm in favour of long-sleeve shirts and trousers made from quick dry/wicking material,
kind regards,
Ben

[Chezza]

You could try Melanotan. You probably wouldn't have to dose on the walk, and the dose is likely in micrograms so it is certainly Super Ultra LightWeight

http://theconversation.com/is-this-inje ... -use-60628

In all seriousness, I have no shortage of melanin and even I burn while out. I use an Outdoor Research Sunrunner and a long-sleeved shirt, with buff if necessary.

[bernieq]

+1 for Frillkneck hats (+ lots really - very good sun protection). However, don't forget that UV can reflect off shiny/white/hard surfaces so in snow, on water, you would still need sunscreen.

Beards - as a skin cancer avoidance mechanism - sorry, guys, but it doesn't work. You can still contract skin cancer under a beard.

Shorts - try a 3/4 pair, long enough to overlap the gaiters. Rivers often have them - lightweight, polyester, mesh pockets, cheap. Similar elsewhere.

Insect mesh - does not screen out appreciable amounts of UV.

BTW do you know what (eg) SPF 50 means?
1/50 of the UVB is transmitted (ie 2%). Therefore 98% is screened out.
SPF 20 : 1/20 = 5% so 95% blocked.
Also, SPF refers only to UVB - but UVA also potentially causes cancer. It doesn't burn skin but penetrates deeper and is not necessarily blocked out by sunscreen.

So, the most reliable protection is clothing.

[Montaine]

I've never walked in it but sailing gear is pretty good for sun protection and breathability, e.g. have worn something like this out on the water all day in many a Perth summer:

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_item ... lutePage=2

though being branded as 'marine' apparel they tend to attract the same premium as outdoor gear.. also not sure how they would go with a pack for comfort.

[cajun]

+1 for fishing shirts. Long before I started bushwalking I used these for days on the water, they are light, 50+ and breathable. I also use a "Greg Chappel" wide brim cricket hat (or a cap in the wind), and liberal use of SPF 50+ "sport" sunscreen. The EGO brand milk tends to be much less sticky. My dermatologist also told me to "never lose the beard". But the OP has made a very valid point, one which I forgot on a recent walk up a snow covered mountain. If you sweat, and wipe off the sweat - you are basically wiping off the sunscreen. For the first time in 30 years or more I got badly burnt on my face even through my beard (which is much shorter and grey now) - enough to peel. Having had 2 melanomas removed I am extremely sun aware, and still stuffed up big time.

My thanks to all the posters in this thread for offering up some new ideas to think about.

[Tortoise]

However, don't forget that UV can reflect off shiny/white/hard surfaces so in snow, on water, you would still need sunscreen.

Ah yes, there is that. On walks when there's a lot of boulder hopping, I do resort to sunscreen on my face and the bit the opening of my shirt doesn't cover.

[Moondog55]

Mesh over the face area as in those fly nets can cut the UV down very well tho. White open mesh on the outside with dark green [or black] on the inside worked very well the time I tried it so working with net veils is worth experimenting with

[ribuck]

I minimise my use of sunscreen by not applying it at the start of the day, when the sun is less intense. I walk for a couple of hours without it before I apply the stickty, sweaty stuff. I extend my sunscreen-free time by walking in as much shade as possible (which is usually easy early in the morning when the sun is low). If I need to stop, e.g. to get something out of my pack, I will always wait for a shady spot rather than just stopping anywhere.

[photohiker]

I gave up using the sticky sweaty stuff years ago.

Once most of the area to be protected is minimised with appropriate sun blocking clothing, I use a non oily sunscreen. Currently using Neutragena Ultra Sheer Dry touch lotion SPF50+

[stry]

Don't forget the backs of your hands.

[ofuros]

....and your lips.

[north-north-west]

....and your lips.

Lips and nose are the only bits of me that burn. And boy, do they ever burn! Especially as on the last couple of walks I haven't been able to find the 1st Aid Kit which is where the LipSed is stored . . .

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

So I'll update this thread as I go about changing my sun avoidance. I'm bed ridden with some sort of tummy issue at the moment, but I'll be hitting the shops once I'm back on my feet.

First up will be two fishing shirts and a hat with the flaps. Then I'll go from there depending on how that pans out.
I like the idea of the vented back in the fishing shirts. If they have vented arm pits, loose buttons and I buy a largish size I imagine they'll be just as comfortable as a t shirt.

I'll have to see if I can get used to walking in pants, but previously I've just found it prohibitively hot. I have compression type pants as suggested by one post, but any more than an hour or so and they tend to be too uncomfortable for the man bits. Definitely couldn't wear them all day.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

In Summer for hiking ,I use zinc cream for lips and nose, a legionnaires hat , long sleeved collared shirts, cycling gloves, long gaiters, quick dry longish shorts.
I tan easily , being of Punjabi origin but the sun in the Oz Alps in Summers is diabolically strong and is best avoided by using clothing to keep the sun off. I also wear an insect net on my head.

[farefam]

Although not a redhead, I too am cursed with pale skin but love bushwalking and hate having to use large amounts of sunscreen. Instead I have always walked in lightweight long trousers and a long sleeved shirt.

Because I rarely choose to walk on wet days in summer most of my shirts are very lighweight polyester/cotton Yakka work shirts. My trousers are lightweight KingGee polyester/viscose work trousers. If it is wet I wear a goretex jacket and overpants over the top of either my normal clothes or a pair of thermals. In winter I use heavier work trousers (perhaps with thermals underneath) but switch to a wool long sleeved shirt.

You may not have thought of it, but I also ALWAYS wear gloves when I am walking, primarily to keep the sun off my hands. These are usually just lightweight garden gloves in summer. If going scrub-bashing I use rigger style gloves instead. I tend to get a few odd looks and inquiries as to why I am wearing gloves on a dry summer day but it is worth it! The inquiries are usually followed up by 'that's a good idea'.

By wearing a decent wide brimmed hat (I use a leather squishee style hat) rather than a cap, in practice I rarely have to put sunscreen on anything other than my nose and sometimes other parts of my face (depending on the position of the sun relative to my walking direction).

I find it cooler and more comfortable being covered up rather than having the sun beat down directly onto my skin.