Starting from scratch. Critique my gear list please!

[phenomenomenom]

Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster here. I've never had reason to! Almost all my questions have already been answered at some point by you fabulous people.

It's been a while since I last went on a multi-day walk, but I've enjoyed the few I participated in. This year I'm getting back it, building up to do the famous Overland Track in November.

I'm hoping to buy right, buy once. What are your thoughts on this gear list? Since I'm in Queensland, I'm hoping to keep this kit suitable for conditions here.

Pack:

• Aarn Featherlight Freedom (Large) // 1490g
• Aarn Photo-Regular front pockets // 734g
• Cuben Pack Cover // 41g
  [They're expensive! I might try DIY one. It's just to keep wildlife out during side trips.]
• Trekking Poles - Stuck between the Helinox TLA130, Black Diamond Distance FLZ, and PD Alpine Ergo Cork. I have no idea what I should be looking for in a pole. Never used one before! Any suggestions?

Total: 2265g

Tent:

• TarpTent Stratospire 2 // 1260g
  [Both interiors: Mesh for QLD, solid for TAS]
• 6x Pegs, 14g each, come with tent // 42g
• Tyvek Footprint // 192g
  [Doesn't sound like I need it for OLT, but could be handy elsewhere]
• 6x Cup Hooks // 20g?
• Any suggestions on deterrent to keep possums from chewing through the tent?

Total: 1524g - Divided by two people=762g

Sleep:

• Those quilts by Undercling Mike look pretty good. What temperature would be appropriate for OLT? I'm hoping to get something which is still cool enough for Queensland. Approx. 520g
• Therma-rest NeoAir X-Lite pad // 350g
• Silk bag liner // 135g
• Sea to Summit Aeros Ultralight Pillow // 60g

Total: 1065g

Cooking:

• MSR Windburner System // 460g
  This includes the pot, cozy & handle, bowl, pack cloth, canister legs, lid, and burner. I could put something together for ~150g lighter, but it'll be a lot less convenient. Is it worth it?
• Gas Cartridge // 360g
• Coffee Press // 36g
  [For only an extra 36g I feel like this is a necessity.]
• BIC Lighter //10g
• Chux Wipe/Scourer // 15g
• Spork // 20g
• Sharp knife // 120g
• Steripen Pure+ Water purifier // 77g
  [This is more for QLD than Tasmania.]
• Basic, light sediment filter/cloth to use with Steripen
• 2x Water Bottles - Nalgene Tritan Wide 1L // 358g

Total: 1476g - Split between two people=1195g

Clothing:

• Sunglasses // 53g
• Hat - Stiff wide brimmed. Any lightweight suggestions that leave me with a shred of dignity?
• Beanie // 72g
• Buff // 36g
• Gloves //
  [Waterproof, or will a lightweight insulator suffice?]
• Base Layer - Merino thermals, short sleeved x2 // 280g
  [Day/Night sets]
• Mid Layer - Fleece? Jacket? Windbreaker? I could use some help here!
• Outer Rain Shell - Arc'Teryx LT Hybrid // 380g
• 2x synthetic boxers // 100g
• 1x Merino thermal bottoms // 150g
  [Probably only for sleeping unless the weather is extreme.]
• Rain Over-Pants - Mont Austral // 380g
• Shorts // ~220g
  [Anything in particular to look out for regarding shorts?]
• Gaiters - // 300g
  [One Planet or Wilderness Equipment. Whichever fit me better]
• 2x Pairs of Socks // 220g
  [I'll try Darn Tough and 70 Mile Bush to see which I like most. Day/Night pairs]
• 2x Injinki in-socks //
  [Alternate each day]
• Lightweight belt //
• Hut Shoes - Skinners // 80g
  [Has anyone tried these?]

Total: 2271g
Some of that is worn, but I still don't have a mid-layer.

First Aid Kit (for group):

• Red Cross Pouch // 115g?
  [I'll try make one out of Cuben or ripstop or something...]
• Emergency Blanket // 50g
• Band Aids // 6g
• Elastaplast // 34g
• Dressing // 5g
• Compression Bandage // 24g
• Conforming Bandage // 14g
• Sterile Wipes // 11g
• Disposable Gloves // 17g
• Paracetamol // 8g
• Anti-Inflammatories // 7g
• Anti-Diarrhetic/Gastrostop // 2g
• Antihistamine // 4g
• Antiseptic // 29g
• Styptic Pencil // 40g?
  [For areas with leeches.]
• Salt Sachets // 8g
  [Again, for leeches.]
• Water Treatment Tablets // 13g
• Butterfly Clips // ?g
• Safety Pins // 4g
• Mini Swiss Army Knife // 21.g
• Blister Treatment // ?g
  [Not sure what to bring to treat blisters. I tend not to have issues with blisters, but my companions do.]

Total: 412g

Repair Kit (for group):

• Spare 3mm cord
• Air mat repair kit
• Sail Tape
• Cable Ties
• Sewing Kit

I don't have weights measured, but this should be light.

Personal & Hygiene:

• Toothbrush // 10g
• Toothpaste // 35g
• Disposable Razor // 5g
• Ear Plugs // 3g
• Sunscreen // 70g
• Insect Repellent //70g
• Toiletries Bag // 20g
  [DIY Cuben thing or just a ziplock bag]
• Tiny Towel // 70g
• Trowel // 60g
  [1x for group. Not needed on OLT, a tentpeg will suffice ICE]
• Toilet Paper // 100g
• Rubbish Bag // 5g
• Alcoholic Hand Gel // 40g

Total: 438g

Safety/Navigation:

• PLB // 142g
• Map // 53g
• Compass // 40g?
• Whistle //
• Mirror //

Total: 235g

Electronics:

• Headlamp - Zebralight H600Fw // 124.6g
• Phone // 170g
  [Will be used for GPS if needed]
• USB Charger // 85.5g
• USB Cable // 16g
• Power Bank - Miller ML-202 //100g?
• Batteries - 2x 18650 // 96g

Total: 592.4g

Entertainment:

• Cards // 71g
• Kindle (optional) // 208g

Total: 279g

Total base weight: 9515g

Food & Water:

• Food // 6300g
  [Enough for 7 days]
• Coffee Grounds // 112g
• Water // 2000g

Total: 8412g

That leaves me with a manageable pack weight of about 18kg. Is there anything I can do to (reasonably) reduce it further? I'll probably throw a decent camera in there too which will bump up the weight a bit.

I know the 57L + 12L Aarn system will be fairly tight, but is it an achievable volume for a week's gear? Should I step up to the Natural Balance?

For both bits of rain kit, they could be swapped out for the lighter (and cheaper) Outdoor Research Helium line, but I get the impression that they aren't very durable. Does anyone here have experience with them?

For my day mid-layer, what's an example of something suitable? A fleece? A sweater? Down Jacket?
Should I add a second fleece top for camp?

Are short sleeved thermals suitable for OLT? To be honest, I'm just as worried about being too hot as I am too cold! While active, I hardly feel the cold. At camp though, I generally rug up a fair bit. Is one pair of thermal bottoms enough? I'll probably wear shorts during the day, unless conditions are extreme.

Trekking Poles aren't something I've ever used before. I've considered the Helinox TLA130, Black Diamond Distance FLZ, and PD Alpine Ergo Cork. What should I be looking for? My only requirement is that they work with the tarptent, which needs 127cm of height I think. I'm 183cm so that seems about right for me anyway, if maybe a tad too tall.

We'll be a fairly large group of 6-8 people, so we should be able to divy out weight a bit more. Any handy tips for hiking in a group?

That's a lot of questions! Sorry for the length of my post. Mods, if this is more appropriate in the OLT forum, please move it. Thank you all for the wonderful advice I've already read here!

[peregrinator]

Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster here. I've never had reason to! Almost all my questions have already been answered at some point by you fabulous people.

It's been a while since I last went on a multi-day walk, but I've enjoyed the few I participated in. This year I'm getting back it, building up to do the famous Overland Track in November.

I'm hoping to buy right, buy once. What are your thoughts on this gear list? Since I'm in Queensland, I'm hoping to keep this kit suitable for conditions here.

Pack:

• Aarn Featherlight Freedom (Large) // 1490g
• Aarn Photo-Regular front pockets // 734g
• Cuben Pack Cover // 41g
  [They're expensive! I might try DIY one. It's just to keep wildlife out during side trips.]
• Trekking Poles - Stuck between the Helinox TLA130, Black Diamond Distance FLZ, and PD Alpine Ergo Cork. I have no idea what I should be looking for in a pole. Never used one before! Any suggestions?

Total: 2265g

Tent:
[list]
[*] TarpTent Stratospire 2 // 1260g . . .

I’ll confine my comments to two of the bigger and pricier items, tent and pack. Quickly scanning your well-researched list, the rest seems reasonable, though I think you might be underestimating the quantity of water you’ll need on some trips.

When I read “I have no idea what I should be looking for in a pole. Never used one before!”, my initial response was: then why do you think you need poles? But of course, it was for the tent. If that’s the only reason, why not consider a different tent? There must be at least seventeen million other brands and models out there to choose from.

For what it’s worth, I occasionally use just one cheap, inherited pole when I know or assume I’ll need it for balance on a steep and slippery descent or on creek crossings. For me, one is alright but only for use as described. I did try using two but found that more of a hindrance than a help. Anyway, there are usually suitable tree branches lying around to use for any balancing acts that are required when not carrying a pole.

I have an Aarn Effortless Rhythm (stupid name, brilliant pack) Large - 72L plus 12L pockets. For a week or so trip, I can’t see how I’d fit my load into a 57L + 12L pack. But it seems I’d be carrying a lot more water than you (I’d rather do that than take chances) and there’d most likely be other variations as well. There will be some on the forum though who are happy to go lighter than your 57+12, so I don’t think there’s a definitive answer on this one.

If you are not doing the OLT until next November, perhaps you can try out some ideas by borrowing and/or hiring some gear. Don’t rush into any purchases because some great used stuff comes up on the forum at very fair prices.

Oh, one other thing. You are spot on about the need for a wide-brimmed hat, but what has dignity got to do with it? More shade equals less melanoma, perhaps.

[kitty]

Your list is impressive. Yes, just buy once.
Helinox poles are great. The ones you picked can change length, which is important for the tent you picked (v.nice tent that one). In general I would avoid any twist-lock type poles as they often slip (get shorter) and/or the become unlockable/locked. The lever-type ones are good as once you lock the lever they stay put. They are also easier to adjust while the tent is up, if you need to heighten the pole after youve pitched it.
WRT poles everyone is different. Ive gone from using no poles, to 1 pole and now 2 poles and I dont know why I didnt use 2 poles from the start
You might need to assess whether to get the FF or the NB (or the ER) only after you buy your other gear?
What type of food are you planning to cook in your MSR Windburner?

[phenomenomenom]

Thank you for the reply! Regarding water, I've only allowed 2L for the Overland Track because it sound like it's easy to refill regularly. For most other walks I'll probably take 3-4L depending on where it is.

When I read “I have no idea what I should be looking for in a pole. Never used one before!”, my initial response was: then why do you think you need poles? But of course, it was for the tent. If that’s the only reason, why not consider a different tent? There must be at least seventeen million other brands and models out there to choose from.

Yes, there certainly are about 17 million options to choose from! I could simply add tarptent's poles at 122g each, but I'm open to suggestions for other tents! My thinking regarding trekking poles, is that wasn't a huge weight penalty (+150g to 250g, compared to tent poles) to try something which could potentially help. The poles would likely be split between two people as I don't see myself wanting more than one. If I don't like it, I can just not use it, or sell it.

I have an Aarn Effortless Rhythm (stupid name, brilliant pack) Large - 72L plus 12L pockets. For a week or so trip, I can’t see how I’d fit my load into a 57L + 12L pack.

More choices! In that case it becomes the Natural Balance vs Effortless Rhythm (300g difference). Maybe I should try them out in-store.

Oh, one other thing. You are spot on about the need for a wide-brimmed hat, but what has dignity got to do with it? More shade equals less melanoma, perhaps.

Nothing really. Perhaps this was an ill thought out comment. I simply meant a wide-brimmed hat looks better than a bucket hat, especially after a bit of sweat.

If you are not doing the OLT until next November, perhaps you can try out some ideas by borrowing and/or hiring some gear. Don’t rush into any purchases because some great used stuff comes up on the forum at very fair prices.

That's the plan! I am going on an overnight walk through Lamington in February so I'm planning to pick up the pack, gaiters and hard-shell before then. The rest, I can beg/borrow/steal as needed.

[phenomenomenom]

Helinox poles are great. The ones you picked can change length, which is important for the tent you picked

hmm, the TLA130 do have a twist lock. If twist locks are to be avoided, that leaves the DL145 or LB135.

You might need to assess whether to get the FF or the NB (or the ER) only after you buy your other gear?

That would make things easier, but I'm hoping to get a pack first so I can get started with overnight hikes, and pick up everything else as I can afford it/used.

What type of food are you planning to cook in your MSR Windburner?

Mainly dehydrated meals, oats, soup, coffee and of course, boiling water. I figure I'm unlikely to carry fresh ingredients to properly 'cook' with on a long hike, and for a short hikes I might get an alcohol stove. I'm still not quite sold on the Windburner. It does seem rather heavy...

[kitty]

Ive seen the LB135 and DL145 in action and both are nice sets of poles and either would suit the tent.
The SS2 is a very nice tent, v.spacious for 2 people but light enough for 1 to carry. But Im biased, I owned one and now use the SS1.
Definitely try the packs on instore, weighted up, to see if they suit you. The ER has more organisation pockets, compared with the NB so might just come down to organisation preference. For the ER, the balance pockets are an additional purchase.
I wasnt going to suggest a lighter stove, actually something heavier but more versatile - the Primus Eta Express Spider Stove kit (find it on amazon). Depends on what type and how much cooking you are doing and if you want to drink tea,etc whilst rehdrating your food (need 2 pots). Comes with a pot cosy.
Possums, just shoo them away and dont keep any food in your tent, store in hut. Keep your food in separate dry bags to keep food aroma out of your clothes and gear.

[undercling-mike]

That's a detailed list!

I'll just comment on a few things, firstly the quilt. I think the way to go would be a -2C quilt with the zip/drawcord footbox that can be fully opened. It could be colder than that in the OLT in November but in a shared two walled tent with fabric inner and wearing thermals and insulated jacket there should be some buffer and the opening footbox will help make it more flexible in warmer conditions.

I think some could be saved in the electronics, should be phone, powerbank and cable if planning to use as a camera or just fully charge the phone and switch it off if for emergency gps. The Zebralight H600 is overkill IMO and a bit large, unless you've got another use for it I'd consider the H52 models, my preference is for the H52w because it's easy to diffuse a beam but hard to focus it and I think the F models give up too much distance if you need to navigate at night. Use with lithium AAs for the lightest weight or Eneloop rechargeable AAs.

120g is also generous for a knife unless you're talking about some kind of survival or bushcraft knife. Something like an Opinel #7 or #8 at about 40g works great.

For a warm layer a lightweight down jacket or synthetic insulated jacket is a lot better for warmth to weight ratio than a fleece and also makes a decent pillow rolled up or put in a stuff sack.

You can probably cut the first aid kit down somewhat, maybe try just using a ziplock bag for it. From what I've seen use tape for blisters, athletic tape is good.

On my recent walk in Tassie my friend and I both used 45L Exped lightning packs including 9 days of food and a Hilleberg Nammatj 2 tent which is quite bulky and weighs almost 3kg. So I think you could fit in a 57 +12L pack but it's hard to say for sure until you've tried it out.

The Tasgear gaiters made by forum member Scottyk are also worth a look if you haven't already.

Good luck! And enjoy getting back out there.

[north-north-west]

With regard to the poles: you can get decent carbon fibre flick-lock poles from Aliexpress at about a quarter the price of the big name brands. They work just as well as the more expensive ones.

Do not use down for walking in. It will get wet, whether from sweat or ambient moisture, and then you lose all the insulation. In Tassie, down is for camp wear. If you really need another layer for walking over a base and/or shirt, get a light fleece or windshirt. Like you, I generally feel warm enough when on the move and hardly ever wear anything over the base and short sleeve shirt in summer except raingear when necessary (even in cold, dry conditions). Waterproofs are also an excellent barrier against cold winds.

I can fit 14 days food and gear (including DSLR & lenses) into a small Load Limo, even with the Nallo rather than one of the one-man tents. Your less bulky gear should work with a smaller pack if it's packed carefully. You'd be surprised how much you can squeeze into these packs if you're ruthless about eliminating waste space.

On the Overland you don't really need to carry more than 1 litre water as there are heaps of refill options - tanks, creeks, pools etc. Treating the water is not necessary unless you are highly susceptible to anything that hasn't been chlorinated, fluoridated and sterilised to within an inch of its poor little life.

[phenomenomenom]

That's a detailed list!

I know... What can I say? I just really like lists?

I think the way to go would be a -2C quilt with the zip/drawcord footbox that can be fully opened.

That's very helpful. I'll get in touch with you in a couple of months when I have the money to back my words.

Something like an Opinel #7 or #8...

Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for.

I think some could be saved in the electronics

aha. You got me. I'm considering bringing a full frame mirrorless for photos and video along the way. The problem with this is battery life. Enough batteries for a week weigh in at almost 800g!!! A solution could be something with solar, similar to Mark F's kit, hence the weird 18650/ML-202 setup. The total additional weight for this set up is about 500g, plus a 1kg camera. I realise that completely undoes weight savings elsewhere, but hopefully I'll be able to convince the rest of my group to help share the load.

I actually already got the zebralight, so I'm stuck with it now! I chose the H600Fw so I can use it cycling in the evenings, which is something I do regularly. I just couldn't justify getting two separate lights to save 44g. One advantage is I won't need any AA batteries. Everything is 18650 which gives redundancy should I run out of power.

You can probably cut the first aid kit down somewhat, maybe try just using a ziplock bag for it.

My thoughts too, but I wasn't sure what else to cut aside from the heavy bag. Is there anything on there which shouldn't be?

On my recent walk in Tassie my friend and I both used 45L Exped lightning packs...

Now that doesn't help me decide at all! haha

The Tasgear gaiters made by forum member Scottyk are also worth a look if you haven't already.

I had seen them but for some reason they didn't make my list. Looking again, they seem miles ahead of all the rest. I'll go with them.

[Gusto]

There isn't a definitive right or wrong. So take my advice as you see fit. You have so many choices, I'm not going to comment on everyone of them


1) Ditch the pack cover. How exactly will it help you with wildlife anyway??

2) As for a hat. I really like the Mountain Design Tumba http://www.mountaindesigns.com/store/products/170436/md-tumba-hat-u

3) I like to walk with trekking poles. I prefer poles with clip locks rather than twist locks, I think they are more robust and are easier to use and repair if need be. If you are planning on walking with the poles then don't be worried about the weight of the pole. But rather a pole that feels trustworthy/strong enough for your body weight. Also, I would avoid trekking poles with a "Shock Absorbing" spring. I reckon they are just marketing junk. Of the Helinox range there are two poles I like, the LBB135 and the DL145.

4) Tents, have you considered the Double Moment or Scarp. I think both tents would hold up better in rough weather.

5) To reduce animals, Eat food away from tent. Use a dry bag for fresh food to reduce odours. You'll find Aarn packs all seal very well. There isn't much else you can too.

6) You already have two thermal tops. You don't need a mid layer if you make them long sleeved

7) Hut/Camp shoes. The skinners look interesting. I've never seen them before. Give them a go and tell the forum about them. Alternatively, Sandals such as Crocs are popular.

You don't seem to be wearing a shirt or pants during the day. Did I miss something?

9) Turn off your phone and ditch the power bank. Unless you are planning to regularly use your phone as a gps or camera

10) I'd ditch the mirror

[Mark F]

A minor comment on the two water bottles. Ditch them or at least one of them and just use a 1.25 or 1.5 litre soft drink bottle - basically free and saves 130+ grams per bottle. I would echo the earlier comment on water capacity. While this depends on the areas you are walking I find solo I use about 3 litres overnight and carry a 1 and a 2 litre collapsible bottles (61 grams). If with my partner she will carry the same. This ensures only one trip for water when setting up camp and sufficient to move on the next morning.

[Strider]

Great list!

Hang your food from the nearest tree or store overnight in a hut to stop animal intrusion.

A sleeping bag liner defeats the benefit of a quilt IMO. I use mine as a fitted sheet on my Downmat. Better off washing your quilt more regularly if it needs it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[jdeks]

A minor comment on the two water bottles. Ditch them or at least one of them and just use a 1.25 or 1.5 litre soft drink bottle - basically free and saves 130+ grams per bottle. .

I would not do this. Bust your only water bottle and youre in real trouble. Loss of safety margin is not worth the weight saving. This comes to mind: http://andrewskurka.com/2012/stupid-lig ... or-better/



Your list is pretty darn good mate. 1st id kit and repair kit are well thought out. Ultimately I think at this point its gonna come down to actually hitting the ground, and the testing and cutting based on what you use and dont use.

Personally, I would:

-Ditch the pack cover (unless the Arn packs aren't showerproof?)

-Not use an Arn pack.

- Ditch the tyvek sheet unless you know you're on rock or rosethorns.

-Ditch the walking poles. Overrated. Too many people now just automatically assume you need two sticks in hand to walk further than he train stop. I've never seen anyone actually using them properly enough to get gains worth the weight. I'm sure many will chime in to tell me I'm wrong, but if you yourself are admitting you've never used em and dont know what to look for, chances are they're just gonna be pack bling/ballast. Find a stick for the tent or just get some lighter CF tent poles.

-DO get one of mikes quilts. Smart move. Buy it for the temp you hike at.-2C is ample for most.

-TEST the neo air sleeping pads before you buy. They are NARROW and some people just roll right off em. PM me if you like, can mail you one to test.

-Ditch the sleeping bag liner. Pointless. Annoying. Tangley. Sleep in your clean clothes. Quilt's gonna get dirty by the end of the OLT anyway.

-Ditch the pillow. Roll up some clothes.

-Look at Trail Designs Ti-Tri combined alcohol/wood stoves. My entire cooking kit, fuel, pot and pan, cutlery, burner and windsheild for 4-5 days, weighs about what your stove does without fuel. Maybe its not your thing, maybe you're happy with the weight hit for the convenience of gas. Up to you. But there's lighter options for sure.

-Carry fewer clothes, and pack for the climate. Ditch the insocks, and the spare set of thermals. I dont even take two sets of thermals when I go hiking the vic alps midwinter - two sets plus a midlayer plus a rain shell for the OLT in November is mahoosive overkill. For reference, my shoulder season gear is a light jumper/fleece and my rain jacket to keep the wind out (dont forget they're a good thermal barrier too). For midwinter "gonna need some snowshoes" trips, its a polypro thermal top, down jacket and the rain shell. Thermal top is only there if the down gets wet, or to sleep in. Never carried thermal leggings, never ever carried or needed two sets. But then maybe I'm a penguin?

-Ditch the gaiters unless you KNOW youre scrub bashing with no track at all and you're wearing your dress stockings. Even then, probably dont need em. Nearly two decades of it and I've never once needed a set. Weight on your legs is worth twice what it is on your back.

-Get a leatherman. Worth the weight, trust me.

- Ditch the kindle. I'm forever seeing people bring reading material they insist they'll use, but wind up sleeping instead.




I reckon there a kilo or two to still shave in your list, but on the whole definitely on the right track.

[peregrinator]

. . . On the Overland you don't really need to carry more than 1 litre water as there are heaps of refill options - tanks, creeks, pools etc. . .

Very true. And on one Overland trip, with five days of horizontal rain, just walking with mouth open would have satisfied all drinking requirements.

But in querying the amount of water being carried I was thinking of all the other anticipated trips. Additional water might be needed, therefore the pack’s capacity might need to be greater. By the way, Aarn's design means that (heavy) water carried in the front pockets distributes your load in a most satisfactory way.

[Gusto]

Personally, I would:

-Ditch the pack cover (unless the Arn packs aren't showerproof?)

-Not use an Arn pack.

[/quote]


What do you suggest otherwise?

Presumably you're resistance to the Aarn Featherlite Freedom is due to it's weight. This is not always a good way to measure the performance of a pack for several reasons. A lighter pack may not be as strong or as comfortable to carry. Also, additional weight required for a harness is not particularly straining on the body.

For interest sake, I'll compare several similar sized packs with fabrics of similar strength.

Aarn Featherlite F - 57L - 1.4kg (Backpack only, with no liners)
Exped Lightning - 60L - 1.1kg
Osprey Exos - 58L - 1.1kg
OP Over Shadow - 50L - 1.4kg
Black Diamond Element - 60L - 1.5kg (Very hard to find in Australia)
WE Razor - 50L - 1.5kg
Macpac Tasman - 45L - 1.1kg smallest of the group
Berghaus Trailhead - 50L - 1.5kg

The above range of packs are the only packs that would come close to the quality and weight of an Aarn. As you can Two packs are lighter, the others are actually a little heavier than the Aarn. Front pockets could still be added to some of these packs, which would be useful. Also the Aarn packs undoubtedly have the best harness and integration with pack liners too.


There are of course other UL packs. But they are so significantly different to an Aarn in terms of durability and comfort that it isn't fair to compare them with an Aarn. They are also very much a gamble when purchasing them as you can't try them on before you buy them


Zpacks Arc Haul Gridstop - 62L - 0.7kg
ULA Ohm 2 - 63L - 0.8kg
Gossamer Gear Mariposa - 60L - 0.9kg
Six Moons Fusion - 50L - 1.4kg (Not any lighter than Aarn)
MyTrail Backpacklight - 50L - 1kg
HMG Porter 3400 - 55L - 0.9kg

I am impressed by the weight of the Zpacks, I am also impressed at how substantial the hip belt is, given the total weight. Despite this, I think it's quite a risk ordering one that you haven't tried on. At best it's a 400 gram saving over the Exped or Osprey pack. Both packs would come with a better and more usable warranty.


Overall, the point I'm trying to make is that I think the Aarn is a great choice and that there aren't many other packs worth considering if you were wanting to save weight.

[weeds]

*&%$#! hell.....down to the gram. I thought about weighing items for about a minute, but what I have is what I have therefore the weight is predetermined given I don't have a budget to lighten the load.

We just did the OLT, first major through walk, far from experts but my thoughts

Re: walking poles, if you're questioning the need than ditch em. To me they looked to be a pain in the *&%$#!.

Re: free standing won our vote, means we didn't have to walk with poles.

Re: water, I sweat a lot and drink a lot, started everyday with 2L. Two bottles for redundancy

Re: gaiters....I'm glad we took them and worn them every day.

Re: rain pants, one item I didn't use even when it was raining, probably a good idea to pack

Re: possums, plonk your pack in the hut before to go to sleep

Re: night footwear, thongs no socks

Re: pack cover, I had mine on for one day, was handy when setting up with drizzling rain. Oh and put it on to deter the carrawongs.....oh take little clip for zippers, we did others didn't and the Carrawongs had a field day especially at Mt Ossa

Re: side track pack, so glad we had the light weight sea to summit back pack, we left first aid, PLB in it all the time ready to grab for side tracks, added snacks and water and off we went.

We didn't bother with reading material, plenty of hikers to chat with with many stories of their travels

I didn't use my headlamp.....not really needed for OLT...

Recommend water proof gloves..out non-water soaked through on the rock scrambles with snow on them, yep snow in December

Do you need boxers?

We didn't take anything for repairs or even cord, maybe we should consider

We took no chargers, our camera lasted the distance

Do you need a razor?

We didn't need insect repellent.

Take a few rubbish bags....zip is better

Don't recon you need a compass on OLT or mirror and most packs seem to have a built in whistle.

We all weighed in between 19 and 21kg

I didn't wear my fleece, however did wear my puffer jacket

Re: group, ours was only three, fastest at the front and slowest at the back, front person stop regularly.

[Neo]

Hi phenomenonenom
Exciting times for you and great replies.

I think you have underestimated the amount of coffee grounds. I take tea bags instead to give my liver a break.

I picked up Tasgear gaiters last year. Well made and Scotty is really helpful. At least they give me confidence against brown snakes as I wear light shoes and thin trousers.

Personally I drink up to 4 litres of plain water in a regular 24hrs. Consider taking one of those flat pack bottles as an extra.

I'm happy with my Tarptent, only one night so far. Their substitute poles are inexpensive.

Consider also the LBB135, the extra B is for the extra button which means they pack 7cm shorter.

One light knife can do it all (eat, open packets, trim stuff, whittle a stick etc).

I put my leg thermals, merino longsleeve, spare top and socks in a 4lt drysack for evening wear. I keep two days food in another 4lt sack. Was cold and wet once and figured out those sacks fit nicely on each foot. If needed to keep my fresh socks dry in my wet shoes!

Part of the fun is figuring out what to leave at home next time and also talking yourself into a gear upgrade.

[Mark F]

gusto - your quote from me is actually jdeks words not mine.

jdeks - please read my entire post before commenting. I have not suggested relying on a single water bottle but my use over many years suggests that the standard rocket soft drink bottle is just about unbreakable under normal use.

[Gusto]

oops sorry Mark F. I'll fix this

[phenomenomenom]

Wow, I wasn't expecting so many responses. Thank you all for your input.

I wasnt going to suggest a lighter stove, actually something heavier but more versatile - the Primus Eta Express Spider Stove kit ...

Thanks for the suggestion. That's one I haven't seen before. Aside from the weight, it looks really good! I don't see myself doing 'real cooking' on the trail. Is there another advantage I'm missing? I've gotta say, it's a lot cheaper which is a big plus!

I can fit 14 days food and gear (including DSLR & lenses) into a small Load Limo...

This is probably one of the harder decisions for me. I'd love to go small and light with the Featherlite Freedom. I think I can fit it all in, but It's been 8 years since I last loaded up a pack. The NB and ER would both definitely be large enough, but unnecessarily so for one/two night ventures.

1) Ditch the pack cover. How exactly will it help you with wildlife anyway??

I think I read somewhere on here, one of the OLT guides said birds can open zips, but struggle more with pack covers. My thinking was simply, if something might get pecked to sheds, I'd rather it be a cheap(er) pack cover. Weed's suggestion of clips on each zipper is probably a better idea regardless.

Also, I would avoid trekking poles with a "Shock Absorbing" spring. I reckon they are just marketing junk. Of the Helinox range there are two poles I like, the LBB135 and the DL145.

Thanks for the tips! I guess that narrows it down to the LBB135 then (if I get pole)! It fits inside a Featherlite Freedom, which will be handy for the flight down.

4) Tents, have you considered the Double Moment or Scarp. I think both tents would hold up better in rough weather.

Initially I was just about set on the Double Rainbow. I only had a brief look at either of those options, but it looks like the SS2 holds up reasonably well in bad weather. The DM is free-standing, but at the cost of 300g and some space. The DM doesn't seem to be significantly better weather wise. The Scarp is also free standing, but much heavier (+500g), so I didn't look further. According to reviews, both the SS2 and DM are a little challenging to set up. I don't see myself regularly hiking on snow, bedrock or sand, which seem to be the SS2's kryptonite. Honestly, I don't think I could go wrong with any of the Tarptent line! They all look incredibly well thought out.

6) You already have two thermal tops. You don't need a mid layer if you make them long sleeved
You don't seem to be wearing a shirt or pants during the day. Did I miss something?

I can answer these two at the same time! One of those tops, and the shorts are my day wear.

9) Turn off your phone and ditch the power bank. Unless you are planning to regularly use your phone as a gps or camera

That's the plan! The world can life without me for a week, and visa-versa. Unfortunately I'll probably have to carry it for either end of the trip. The power bank is there to charge a camera.

7) Hut/Camp shoes. The skinners look interesting. I've never seen them before. Give them a go and tell the forum about them.

I'll do that!

Ditch them or at least one of them and just use a 1.25 or 1.5 litre soft drink bottle - basically free and saves 130+ grams per bottle.

Good advice, thank you. Saving weight AND money at the same time is always good. Collapsible bottles huh... I've never heard of these things before. They look very light. It seems relevant to jump down to jdeks:

I would not do this. Bust your only water bottle and youre in real trouble. Loss of safety margin is not worth the weight saving.

This is very true. If I did solo walks, this would be a big issue, but since I always walk in groups I've got built in redundancy there. Most walks in QLD I would take more water, in more bottles.

-Not use an Arn pack.
-TEST the neo air sleeping pads before you buy. They are NARROW and some people just roll right off em. PM me if you like, can mail you one to test.
-Ditch the walking poles. Overrated. ....
... Find a stick
-Carry fewer clothes, and pack for the climate. Ditch the insocks, and the spare set of thermals.
-Ditch the gaiters...
- Ditch the kindle...

- May I ask why not? Sure, they look very... odd, but everyone who uses them seems to love them.
- Thanks for the offer! I actually already have a Neo Air Trekker and I absolutely love it. I take it travelling because it's often more comfy than hostel mattresses... It is 12cm wider but I think I'll cope. I'm a skinny bloke, only 65kg which is one reason why I'm trying to go as light as possible. The Trekker is 730g for R-3 in case anyone is wondering why I don't take it.
- Out of interest, what other mat would you recommend? It seems you have to gain a lot of weight to get a larger style mat.
- I'll try find a good stick to 'demo' a pole on my Feb walk to see how it goes.
- Sorry, I should have been more clear. I've got day/night sets of thermals, which seems to be the recommended setup by most. Are you saying differently?
- I totally understand reducing weight on the legs, but, I think I'd much rather have gaiters and not have to use them than not have them and wish I did.
- What does one need a leatherman on the trails? I have one and it weighs 244g. I'll have good knife, plus scissors in the first aid kit (21g). I can't see myself needing the pliers, bottle opener or file. Maybe the screwdriver would come in handy? I'm curious, do you have any field stories?
- I was actually thinking the same thing about the kindle. If I really have to read something (which I doubt), I can load ebooks onto my phone (which I'll be carrying for the city ends of this expedition). It can last an hour each night if needed.

Re: side track pack, so glad we had the light weight sea to summit back pack, ...

I believe the Aarn pockets can double as day bags, but I'll grab a S2S bag if it doesn't work well

Do you need boxers?
Do you need a razor?
Don't recon you need a compass on OLT or mirror and most packs seem to have a built in whistle.

I most certainly do! Ain't nobody got time for chafing.
Probably don't need a razor though.
I won't double up on things, so if the pack has a whistle, great. I think it unwise to ditch a compass over 20-30g. I'm not planning on having a reliable GPS, and I'm hoping to do a number of side trails so it may become my main source for navigation.

Thank you all for the advice, especially regarding animals + food. I'll ditch the bag liner, and I'll investigate some more stove options.

Weeds, what size pack did you use on the OLT? I'm still struggling to choose between the 57+15L FF, 67+15L NB, and 72+15L ER.

[weeds]

One planet strzeleckie......if your counting grams this isn't the best pack

The carrawongs managed to remove pack covers....clips through the ends of the zips, that's if you have two zip bits for each compartment.

I have never looked at an arn close up, I did the the odd one on the track. I would go bigger first up, if you don't use all the space than steps will pull it in.....but will cost you weight.

We spent eight days on the track, took eight days of food, had about one days food left over.

[weeds]

Re: nav, for the walk from one end to the other zero nav is required (in winter with two foot of snow yes).

We summited cradle, barn, oakliegh and ossa also did the water falls.....the only tricky on for us was finding was the top of oakleigh getting back to the descent point as there were lots of miss leading cairns , everywhere else has well worn track, poster cairns to follow.

I had a GPS, forgot to take it up oakleigh.....mainly used it to tell how many kilometers to go each day.

Oh whistles are built into the chest straps on some pack, gunning thing is we didn't realise this until the day we started the OLT, still took the other whistle on side tracks.

[Gusto]

The Featherlite freedom doesn't have any zippers on the main compartment. Wrapping a piece of fabric that is weaker than the pack it self will not achieve much, it will delay animals sligthly. If you were to do this then you a cheaper and more durable option is to carry some spare cord and a piece of tyvek and wrap up your pack and then tie it up with the cord. If you are already carrying a tyvek ground sheet then all you need is some cord. Which a hard core ultra lighter might take this from the guy ropes of their tent.

Also, if you are doing side trips, then leave the main bag behind and carry your things in the Aarn front pockets. These can be converted to make a backpack.


As for the tent. If you are good friends with your tent partner then you could use the Scarp 1. Sure it is a tiny bit heavier. But it will hold up better in a storm. Having said that, if all you are planning on doing in Tassie is the OLT then you can retreat to if you are concerned about SS2.


Another tent option to consider is the MoTrail. It won't be as warm or strong as the SS2. But it is lighter and would be excellent in QLD. It sounds like you will get more use in QLD then in Tassie. Just carry some extra thermals for the tassie trip.

[jdeks]

- May I ask why not? Sure, they look very... odd, but everyone who uses them seems to love them.
- Thanks for the offer! I actually already have a Neo Air Trekker and I absolutely love it. I take it travelling because it's often more comfy than hostel mattresses... It is 12cm wider but I think I'll cope. I'm a skinny bloke, only 65kg which is one reason why I'm trying to go as light as possible. The Trekker is 730g for R-3 in case anyone is wondering why I don't take it.
- Out of interest, what other mat would you recommend? It seems you have to gain a lot of weight to get a larger style mat.
- I'll try find a good stick to 'demo' a pole on my Feb walk to see how it goes.
- Sorry, I should have been more clear. I've got day/night sets of thermals, which seems to be the recommended setup by most. Are you saying differently?
- I totally understand reducing weight on the legs, but, I think I'd much rather have gaiters and not have to use them than not have them and wish I did.
- What does one need a leatherman on the trails? I have one and it weighs 244g. I'll have good knife, plus scissors in the first aid kit (21g). I can't see myself needing the pliers, bottle opener or file. Maybe the screwdriver would come in handy? I'm curious, do you have any field stories?
- I was actually thinking the same thing about the kindle. If I really have to read something (which I doubt), I can load ebooks onto my phone (which I'll be carrying for the city ends of this expedition). It can last an hour each night if needed.

Sorry - bad wording re Aarn packs. I'm not saying 'dont get an Aarn' - theyre good kit. What I mean is if your objective is trying to cut the total weight down, consider opting for a lighter conventional pack. http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks.shtml. One of them weighs about a 1/3 of the Aarn system.

Of course it could be argued it's less comfortable, especially with heavier weights. Solution - carry less stuff. Thats the thing about going ultralight though - unless you go whole hog and really cut down on *everything*, you dont get to that sweet spot where you feel like youre carrying a daypack for a week trip.

On to other points:

-Exped make not-bad mats, though they seem to have quality issues more than thermarest. I use a Synmat Hyperlite Med Wide now, and for the extra size/width (a lot) it's only about 100g heavier. I'm a rolly side sleeper so I need the width. That said I used a NeoAir for years. Main thing is spend a night on one BEFORE you buy. Happy to loan you either to test.

- I'm assuming your gear list doesnt include your set of worn day clothes? Or is that literally everything you'll have, and that second thermal top is your day-shirt? If so, personally I'd still only have one thermal top for sleeping/gee-its-chilly, and use a wicking breathable long sleeve shirt.

Basically what I'm saying is: 1x thermal top, 1 x day shirt, 1 x midlayer thingy (selected for climate) and 1 x rainjacket is all I personally ever *need* even below freezing, and gives me plenty of options anywhere above that. Add in 2 x socks and undies, 1 x day trousers, 1 x sports shorts or trackies and 1x rainpants, and thats all my clothing in 99% of trips. Take that for what it's worth

- Hiking poles only work properly for stride assistance if used in pairs. Walking round carrying one stick looks woodsy but wont help you much. These folk make awesome, very light and strong CF tentpoles for a good price: http://www.rutalocura.com/products.html I use one for my Trailstar (a very good sub-kilo 2-3 person shelter BTW....)

-Leatherman - pliers are good for straightening tent pegs,pulling cable ties tight, getting hot pots and pans out of fires, pushing sewing needles through stiff webbing material, and many other things. If you're worried about 'needing but not having', then the leatherman should be in your bag. Trust me.

-Conversely, gaiters are something youre more likely to have and not need (unless you hike in shorts?). The OT is a wel marked, well cleared and well trafficked trail. Blouse your trousers into the top of your boots to keep the odd bug out and just watch where you walk.

[kitty]

I wasnt going to suggest a lighter stove, actually something heavier but more versatile - the Primus Eta Express Spider Stove kit ...

Thanks for the suggestion. That's one I haven't seen before. Aside from the weight, it looks really good! I don't see myself doing 'real cooking' on the trail. Is there another advantage I'm missing? I've gotta say, it's a lot cheaper which is a big plus!

Possibly a mis-guided suggestion on my part, now that I think about it
When I read "dehydrated meals" I thought "homemade dehydrated meals" whereas I think you mean the ones in the packet.
In which case, a set-up that boils water quick and is quick and easy to set-up is the way to go.
I think my suggestion of the Primus kit would be overkill for your requirements, based on the foods you mentioned you will eat in your previous post.

[phenomenomenom]

Thank you all for your feedback! A lot of great suggestions. I'm not in the ultralight camp yet, so I'll keep a few things which aren't necessary, but are light + add comfort, like that pillow.

Main thing is spend a night on one BEFORE you buy. Happy to loan you either to test.

Thanks! I'll take you up on that. Why did you switch? My Trekker is exactly the same width as your Exped. Now I think about it, the X-lite does seem narrow. But it is light...


So the main modifications so far are to clothing. I'll re-assess cooking gear in a bit..

I'll ditch:

• Tyvek footprint for OLT. Will use only on rough terrain.
• The heavy water bottles
• Pack cover, can use the groundsheet as per Gusto's suggestion.
• Injinki in-socks. [I'll try them if I have issues with blisters]
• Red Cross Pouch. Replace with zip-lock bag, or make something if I'm feeling crafty.
• Kindle

EDIT: I haven't ditched the bag liner as I was actually planning on putting it over the mat. I'm a restless sleeper and I'm hoping it'll help reduce 'crinkle' noise from the mat.

Still unsure:

• Trekking Poles [I might get some, try them on shorter walks, and either keep them or sell them]
• Merino thermal bottoms [This is probably a personal thing, unfortunately I won't get to find out how well I deal with trekking in the cold until I get there!]

Additions:

• Dry bag for food.
• Coffee upped to 165g (thanks for that catch Neo! Not a tea drinker unfortunately. It would save weight... Maybe I can break the habit for a week.)
• 1x 1-1.5L Collapsible water bottle [2-3x for most places, 1x on OLT]
• 1x 1L Supermarket bottle
  [I do sweat and drink a lot, hence 2L for OLT]
• I'll try the Aarn pockets to see how much of a pain they are as day packs before buying a S2S bag.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the layers thing. I was under the impression that most just wear their base thermals/merino T-shirt, then add as needed up to: thermal (Merino T)-->insulator (fleece)-->shell (rain jacket). I wasn't planning on throwing in a second shirt, just day and night thermal tops.

Clothing (changes only):

• Snow Gloves // 157g
• (Worn Item) Day Base Layer - Merino thermals, short sleeved // 140g
• Night Base Layer - Merino thermals, long sleeved // 230g
• Mid Layer - Fleece // approx. 3-400g
• Outer Rain Shell - Arc'Teryx LT Hybrid // 380g
• (Worn Item) Day synthetic boxers // 80g
• Night synthetic boxers // 80g
• 1x Merino thermal bottoms // 150g
• Rain Over-Pants - Mont Austral // 380g
• (Worn Item) Shorts // ~220g
• Gaiters - Tasgear // 325g

Total: 3006g (less ~550g worn cloths)

That brings my base weight to about 9400g, and total to about 17800g. Similar to before, but all clothing is actually on the list now.

[weeds]

Good idea to keep the pack liner....not sure how effective tyvek is/would be along with sounding like a pain to put i and take off. We had pack liner and pack cover...we were taking to one family and they mention a couple turned back after reaching waterfall hut, other humility got them through the night as all the contents in the pack got wet in the rain and snow

We carried a tyvek ground sheet but didn't used it.......one lady used here emergency blanket as a ground sheet, she liked the idea it had two uses.

Sounds like you are pretty much sorted.

[Gusto]

You've misunderstood my advice

My point was that really adding a tiny bit of additonal fabric is not an effective strategy. However, if you still were wanting to do that then you were already carrying a tyvek ground sheet which would be better than the cuben rain cover.

I still think the pack cover is not needed. The pack liner will keep your things waterproof.

The pack liner. Don't buy one. The Aarn pack comes with them.

As for dry bags. Yes they are useful. In your situation though, you might not need many. Firstly, I think your meals will be prepackaged dehy meals. Also both the Aarn FF and NB, are dry bags. If you are still concerned about animals perhaps hang your pack on a tree.

I prefer the X-Therm thermarest. If you don't like the sound of crinkling then you should try an Exped or Seat To Summit mat.

[findbuddha]

As a fellow QLDer who did the OLT for the first time 6 weeks ago, my thoughts are:
-Get poles. I've never used poles before but both my walking companion and I ended up using them heavily from midway through the trip due to injuries. BD Distance Carbon FLZ worked very well for me. Cheap from the UK.
-Make sure you are used to how quilts work and probably don't skimp on the midlayer. This was my first cool climate trip and I was cold at night (in tent) despite thinking I had adequate equipment. For my next trip to cooler places I'm probably going to get a mummy sleeping bag instead of my quilt, and a down jacket instead of my down vest.

[jdeks]

Main thing is spend a night on one BEFORE you buy. Happy to loan you either to test.

Thanks! I'll take you up on that. Why did you switch? My Trekker is exactly the same width as your Exped. Now I think about it, the X-lite does seem narrow. But it is light...

I found the exped was too narroow post shoulder injury (rolling around a bit more. Plus it was a recent addition to the Exped line and IMHO they've pipped Thermarest for the first time - much more space and comfort for basically the same weight.

HOWEVER I will say I had to return my first one due to a leak, and I've got a few mates who'd had exped durability and warranty issues. Conversely, I've gone rafting with thermarests and got years out of them. There's a reason their brand is synonymous with camp mats.

Send me a PM and we can sort out when you want to test the mats.