Stoves systems weight comparisons

[Tony]

Some comments about different fuel efficiencies on a recent thread about stoves got me thinking about comparing different stoves so I decided to do some calculations. This is the first forum posting of a series to show weight differences in different stove systems. For this series I have compared the popular Trangia 25-1, MSR Whisperlite and the Kovea Supalite over three day, seven days and 15 days. There are many combinations that I could compare but for this first series I have chosen three popular combinations or stove systems, as I prefer to call them.

Stoves systems used

The Trangia 25-1 which uses Methylated Spirits is a very popular stove. All pots, windshield and burner fit together very nicely. The pots are 1.75 liter and 1.5 liter capacity. System weight of 865g without fuel bottle.

MSR Whisperlite which uses Shellite and is also a very popular stove especially for cold climates. With this stove I used the MSR Alpine 2 Stainless Steel pot set, this pot set is designed to fit the stove inside. The pots are 2.0 liter and 1.5 liter capacity. Complete system including pot grabber and windshield has a weight of 1090g including fuel bottle.

Kovea Supalite which uses Propane/iso-butane gas mixtures, these lightweight gas stoves are becoming very popular. With this stove system I used two cheap Billy’s, 1.25 liter and 1,5 liter capacity, all contained in a mesh bag. System weight including pot gripper and windshield has a weight of 424g without fuel container. (This system is what I actually use outside winter when two pots are required).


The three stove systems (note the Trangia pictured is a 27-1)


Kovea/billy pot system


MSR Whisperlite stove/pot system


Trangia stove/pot system



Estimated daily fuel use

Daily fuel used was determined by using figures from Roger Caffin’s http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_E ... sage,these figures are for fuel used per day for two people.

These figures have been determined by Roger notes of his fuel usage in the field and other walkers reports over many years and the figures given here are specified as reasonably conservative.

Methylated Spirits 80-100g (used 95g in calculations)
Shellite 50-60g (used 55g in calculations)
Gas 30g (used 30g in calculations)

Note: in cold weather fuel usage can be higher and if melting snow it will be higher again.

In all of the calculations I used an amount of fuel that was rounded off to an amount just above the fuel required. Eg; for three days with the Trangia 285grams of Methylated Spirits was required, I rounded this off to 300g grams of fuel.

Graph 1, 3 day comparison.



Trangia 25-1 system, with one 500 ml fuel bottle (35g) no fuel weight of 900 g, all up weight with 300 g fuel 1200g

Whisperlite system, the fuel bottle was filled with 250 ml (185g) of Shellite for a no fuel weight of 1264g and all up weight of 1449g.

For the Kovea system I used one 100g canister and one 230 g canister, I did not put the 450 g canister figures in as It is not practical to use this canister for a three day walk.

System with 1 x 100g canisters 512g, all up weight with fuel 612g.

System with 1 x 230g canisters 558g, all up weight with fuel 788g.

Graph 2, 7 day comparison



Trangia 25-1 system, with 7 days fuel 850 mls of fuel was required for the 7 days calculations I started with a full 1 liter bottle, no fuel weight of 913 g, all up start weight with 800g fuel 1713g

Whisperlite system, with 7 day fuel, 520 mls was required in the calculations, I started with 650 mls of Shellite,.

System weight with no fuel weight of 1264g and all up start weight of 1754g.

For the Kovea system I did calculations with two 100g canisters, three 100g canisters one 230 g canister, and one 450 g canister

System with 2 x 100g canisters 600g, all up weight with fuel 800g, This is 10 grams short of the required fuel but was put in to show that if careful it can be done.

System with 3 x 100g canisters, no fuel weight 688g and all up start weight with fuel 988g

System with 1 x 230g canisters 558g, all up start weight with fuel 788g.

System with 450g canister 643g, all up start weight with fuel 1092g

Graph 3, 15 day comparison


Trangia 25-1 stove system with 2 x 1liter plastic Methylated Spirits bottles at 48 grams per bottle filled with 1800 mls at start.

System weight without fuel, 961g, all up start weight with fuel 2401g

Whisperlite stove system, 1115 mls was required in the calculations, I started with 1200 mls of Shellite.

System weight without fuel 1254g, all up start weight with fuel 2142g

For the Kovea system I used 5 x 100g canisters, two 230 g canister, and one 450 g canister

System weight with 5 x 100g canisters 864 g, all up start weight with fuel 1364g

System with 2 x 230g canisters 691 g, all up start weight with fuel 1151g

System with 1 x 450 g canister, no fuel 642g, all up start weight 1092g.

Conclusion.

It is obvious that the Kovea gas stove system comes out on top in all of the calculations, the outer advantages of gas stoves is the fine control of the flame which is not available with the Whiserlite and to a lesser extent the Trangia but as to which stove system you prefer you can make your own conclusions, I hope these graphs will help.

Tony

[tasadam]

An excellent review Tony!

I thought I would share a bit of info with you.
I use an MSR Simmerlite.
I have the Simmerlite stove, pump, alloy windshield, alloy disc for base, plastic bag with pump lubricant and spare O-ring, film canister with waterproof matches and striker board, disposable lighter with child lock (always get one with a child lock so the gas lever doesn't get inadvertently held down in packing), all packed in its bag with draw cord, and the whole thing fits neatly in a one litre billy with a large rubber band to keep the lid on.
That weighs 702 grams.
I have two MSR fuel bottles. The larger one - almost a litre, at 217 grams empty, and the smaller 650ml one (good for 4 days easily), at 146 grams.

I see for your tests you use two standard pots - 1 litre and 1.5 litre, but I only ever need one 1 litre billy.
Interesting to see where these numbers fit into the chart.

[Son of a Beach]

Good work Tony.

Would it be possible to do a similar graph showing just the fuel types (eg, metho, shellite, gas) their weights and usage over time without a stove or pans kit included, and then a seperate list of various stove kits and their weight (categorize by fuel type). This could then be a data source that could make for very good comarisons for any extensible list of stoves.

[Tony]

Hi Adam,

I thought I would share a bit of info with you.
I use an MSR Simmerlite.
I have the Simmerlite stove, pump, alloy windshield, alloy disc for base, plastic bag with pump lubricant and spare O-ring, film canister with waterproof matches and striker board, disposable lighter with child lock (always get one with a child lock so the gas lever doesn't get inadvertently held down in packing), all packed in its bag with draw cord, and the whole thing fits neatly in a one litre billy with a large rubber band to keep the lid on.
That weighs 702 grams.
I have two MSR fuel bottles. The larger one - almost a litre, at 217 grams empty, and the smaller 650ml one (good for 4 days easily), at 146 grams.

There are many stove pot combinations and I plan to cover a lot of them in due course, I chose what I considered the most common stove systems. There is a lot of work to each comparison set and it will take some time. My next series is probably going to be some of the lighter alcohol stove combinations which will for shorter walks make all the above stoves look like extreme heavy weights.

I see for your tests you use two standard pots - 1 litre and 1.5 litre, but I only ever need one 1 litre billy.
Interesting to see where these numbers fit into the chart.

Some times when I am only going for 1-2 nights I take a gourmet meal like a curry or spag bol which I need to heat up as well as cook some rice or pasta, for this reason I find it easier to take and use two pots, when I want to go lighter I only take one pot and I have many lighter option from an alcohol stove/pot combination that weighs less than 30g and a gas stove that weighs in at 16.7g.

Tony

[Tony]

Hi SOAB,

Good work Tony.

Would it be possible to do a similar graph showing just the fuel types (eg, metho, shellite, gas) their weights and usage over time without a stove or pans kit included, and then a seperate list of various stove kits and their weight (categorize by fuel type). This could then be a data source that could make for very good comarisons for any extensible list of stoves.

I will look into doing what you suggested, will start on it tonight, could put in the wiki. If I was a computer person I could set up a data base with stove weights and fuel per day weights some readers can test stove/fuel/day combinations that add up and give a total when clicked.

Tony

[Son of a Beach]

Hi SOAB,

Good work Tony.

Would it be possible to do a similar graph showing just the fuel types (eg, metho, shellite, gas) their weights and usage over time without a stove or pans kit included, and then a seperate list of various stove kits and their weight (categorize by fuel type). This could then be a data source that could make for very good comarisons for any extensible list of stoves.

I will look into doing what you suggested, will start on it tonight, could put in the wiki. If I was a computer person I could set up a data base with stove weights and fuel per day weights some readers can test stove/fuel/day combinations that add up and give a total when clicked.

Tony

Thanks Tony, and yes, adding it to the wiki would be a great idea. It is likely to be a bit of information that many people would find useful for comparative purposes.

[sthughes]

Excellent info - good work.

[corvus]

Good Work Tony,
c

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[tasadam]

There has been a bit of stove discussion lately.
I am thinking of starting a topic just for people to post their stove model, kit weight, maybe photos and a list of what is in the kit. I will think about this.
At least it might help Tony with his further research by getting a better idea what people are carrying with their stoves, what is being used etc.

[Tony]

HI Brett,

Interesting thread and top work though by choosing the stainless steel MSR pot set you are handicapping the Whisperlite. I say that mainly because I have the non stick aluminium set. I did post their weight but if you like I can post their weight in a bag with the gripper and the dish cloth that locks the frying pan to the large pot as this is the sort of set up that would be carried (in fact I have carried it). It might be fairer to use the same pot set for all non integrated systems as users will choose what works for themselves and their budget.

Cheers Brett

You have bought up some good points.

I agree that the MSR Alpine SS pots are heavy and are handicapping the Whisperlite weights but when I purchased my Whisperlite stove and pots they where sold as a matching system and they have been and still are a popular system, for this reason I decided to use the Alpine pots so I could show how weight inefficient this system could be against a modern gas stove system. I am considering doing a comparison of the systems with lightweight pots. But the results are still going to be basically the same, the gas system will come out on top.

I consider the Whisperlite and other Shellite stoves heavy, inefficient, difficult to adjust the flame and outdated but they have one advantage and that is they work in very cold conditions but there are some lighter more efficient liquid feed gas stoves coming on the market that can work down to -25C which is about as cold as it gets in Australia.

I almost certain that the Whisper-lite can fit into the Snowpeak titanium set I have so it should fit in anything with over 1 litre capacity. For integrated systems like the Trangi and Primus Eta it would be a fair assumption that the average user would take the set as supplied. Each user will have their own cooking solution with some using bits and pieces of the the set as frypans and plates. MSR you could serve up three meals though there would be a debate who gets the gripper The Snowpeak set maxed out could serve four with the handles not requiring benches but you would need to be aware of the trick with the lids

As stated before there are many stove pot combinations possibly many hundreds I have chosen the above examples as they are some of the most common stove systems used.

As for sharing the weight of a stove system that is also a good point and is common but not always done as often the strongest person usually takes some extra weight.

The Eta is an interesting system re fuel usage as your type of cooking will govern how much advantage its heat exchanger is plus the heat retaining bag. As pointed out the bag is heavier than the basic stove Might be a bridge too far though as likely just too many variables. One thing is the ETA fair hums when boiling water for coffee and can catch you of guard how quick it can boil say 600ml for two cups.

With the flux ring pots they are very good for efficiency but are heavy, there weight advantage is only for longer walks, some question if they are an advantage at all. I actually use the JetBoil 1.5l GCS pot for winter snow conditions with my Coleman Extreme stove, this is not the lightest combination but its performance melting snow at -18C it is without peer.

Fuel usage is a tricky thing as I would suggest that your source is a pretty efficient user of cooking equipment so the consumption might be a little light compared to the average user. All the above aside good to see a view on what options people have.

You are right fuel usage is very tricky, it has many variables especially in the field, you could be right that Rogers figures are too low but my belief is that many bushwalkers use there stoves at too high a setting wasting fuel and Roger is a very experienced stove user.

If you have some long term fuel usage figures that you are willing to share I would be happy to use them in my future results.
I am sure that Roger would also like to see them.

Tony

[Tony]

Hi Adam,

There has been a bit of stove discussion lately.
I am thinking of starting a topic just for people to post their stove model, kit weight, maybe photos and a list of what is in the kit. I will think about this.
At least it might help Tony with his further research by getting a better idea what people are carrying with their stoves, what is being used etc.

This would be a very good idea and would help me in determining what stoves to put in the stove systems weight discussions, what else would help if members could post there fuel usage figure if they have them so I could build up my own average figures.

Tony

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[corvus]

Hi Adam,

There has been a bit of stove discussion lately.
I am thinking of starting a topic just for people to post their stove model, kit weight, maybe photos and a list of what is in the kit. I will think about this.
At least it might help Tony with his further research by getting a better idea what people are carrying with their stoves, what is being used etc.

This would be a very good idea and would help me in determining what stoves to put in the stove systems weight discussions, what else would help if members could post there fuel usage figure if they have them so I could build up my own average figures.

Tony

Tony,
The 30g of gas per day is about my average usage on Kovia Ti ,Optimus Crux and MSR Pocket Rocket if that is any help.
C

[Tony]

Hi Corvus,

[quote="corvus" Tony,
The 30g of gas per day is about my average usage on Kovia Ti ,Optimus Crux and MSR Pocket Rocket if that is any help.
C[/quote]

Thanks, is that for one or two persons.
Tony

[corvus]

Solo
c

[Tony]

A few BW-T members have converted their Alcohol fuel Trangia’s to the Trangia gas kit.

I have done some sums comparing the weight efficiency of the gas system compared to the alcohol system.

I have left some of the Kovea stove weights in the graphs so people can compare.

The stove and gas conversion weights are from the Trangia website.

The amount of fuel used per day is the same as prvious results.


3 day comparison, note that ofter one day the gas system is not lighter.


7 day comparison, note that the gas system is lighter untill day 7


15 day comparison, note that the gas systemm is lighter until day 13

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks Tony. This makes me feel even better about my Trangia conversion from metho to gas. I did it for the convenience, and better cooking experience more than the weight factor, but it's nice to know that it is making it lighter as well.

Trangia isn't the lightest stove around, but it's a great cooking platform.