SLEEPING BAGS One Planet vs Mont, and importance of fabric

[LuxLuthor05]

Hi guys,

I know there are TONNES of posts about sleeping bags, but no matter how many I read, I can't find the specific feedback I need on the models I am comparing.

I am buying a bag with the intention of definitely using it in the next few years on the Overland track. Until then, it will see plenty of altitude-ish hikes in the blue mountains, Kanangra area etc, as well as most likely some trips in QLD, and an OUT OF WINTER trip to Yosemite and Yellowstone over in the US of A. All this in mind, I HAVE to get a bag that will prevent me being miserable on a September Overland trip (or June... Whichever is friendlier weather-wise, whilst still being free).

I am comparing:

Mont Brindabella -11 (Hydronaute water resistant shell)

Mont Helium 600 -10 (no water resistance, but breathes better than the Brindabella)

One Planet Bush Lite -11 (Pertex Endurance water resistant shell)

One Planet Bungle -10 (no water resistance, but breathes better than the Bush Lite)


I will be using the bag inside my Mont Moondance 2 (shared with my partner), with the footprint under the tent. We will both have sleeping mats (exped most likely).

The sales girl at Mont HQ in Fyshwick told me that the Brindabella will be far better for the Overland, as she thinks waterproofing is essential. One Planet have told me that the Bungle should be more than enough, as the water proof bags are generally only needed if you are going fast and light and sleeping under a fly only, etc.

Does anybody have experience to share with water resistant vs non water resistant bags inside a tent on the Overland? I feel at this stage that the Bungle is my best bet seeing as most trips won't be in the snow, and One Planet can boost the fill later... but I don't want to end up miserable in TAS due to poor purchasing, as I am really looking forward to the Overland trek!

[SergeantMcFly]

From my experience, your shelter is going to play a much larger role in controlling moisture and condensation (exposure to such) then the bag itself. If you're in a condition where your bag is going to be getting wet from within your shelter, you have larger problems then the bag itself to worry about. Having said that, I feel a lot of the resistant shells are an excuse to just get more money from the consumer. In the examples you've given, whichever fits best for you, is lightest (smallest packing) and cheapest are the factors I'd personally be looking at, given they are all fairly comparable in terms of what you expect to get out of them.

[Strider]

Waterproof shells also increase the likelihood of the down wetting out due to perspiration. Of those options I would take the more breathable option and manage moisture within your shelter accordingly, but personally I would rather a quilt with Downtek.

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[Mark F]

If your tent is adequate and your sleeping bag is properly protected in your pack non-waterproof fabric is fine. Some quilts have the bottom couple of panels made of more water resistant fabric to deal with condensation from tent walls (eg Enlightened Equipment). A more useful feature to look for is water resistant treated down which adds no appreciable weight and deals with dampness that can arise, usually from cold conditions and your own perspiration while in the bag. Water resistant shells are more likely to trap this inside the bag.

[Drew]

I own a Moondance and a One Planet Bushlite -11. I've never had problems with condensation or rain using that tent. Sure, you get plenty of condensation on the inside of the fly, but it never makes it into the tent inner. I wouldn't worry too much about your sleeping bag getting wet from the outside.

If you're using any of those sleeping bags in QLD I suspect you might get it wet from sweat though!

I've been happy with the Bushlite (haven't used it extensively in snow however) but if I were buying now I'd likely look a quilt instead.

[That_Asian_Bloke]

Can't really say because I've never used One Planet.

My wife has the Mont Zodiac 700 and she has taken it to Nepal and Bhutan to do 28 day treks. So I would probably stand by Mont since I'm looking to purchase the Brindabella as well (CampHikeClimb had all sleeping bags for %30 off instore but not sure if it's still on. Waiting on a reply email from them).

There's also these 2 that are on sale (I don't work for them but made heaps of purchases over the last 6 years)
- https://www.camphikeclimb.com.au/produc ... cts_id=830
- https://www.camphikeclimb.com.au/produc ... ts_id=1170

[nq111]

I've had both waterproof and non-waterproof shells on sleeping bags.

Non-waterproof wins. As mentioned by Strider the bigger problem is perspiration wetting out the down - which is noticeably worse with even the best WPB fabrics as it always slows vapour escaping from the shell. Plus any moisture build-up in the bag doesn't dry as fast with a WPB shell. The little bit of condensation from the tent is nothing in comparison.

If you are going to be sleeping in ice caves, get a bivy bag to go over your sleeping bag. You still don't need a waterproof sleeping bag as you loose so much in other condtions. Get a standard shell and spray on some DWR every so often on the shell and it will be more than water-resistant enough.

The biggest improvement you can make to keeping the down dry is to sleep in a vapour barrier to stop the perspiration ending up in the down. A VPL adds lots of warmth (best warmth for weight sleeping bag liner bar nothing). Yes - tested in wet and humid Tassie and the bag is noticeably fluffier and drier after a week in the hills.

[undercling-mike]

I'll just basically echo what the others have said about sleeping bag fabrics and say that the non-waterproof fabrics are better 99% of the time in the real world. Just to clear things up the fabrics you listed as "water resistant" are actually a kind of waterproof breathable fabric, usually a fabric with a micro-porous PU coating on the back. These fabrics tend to have a low breathability (and sometimes not a very high hydrostatic head, or waterproofness). The low breathability is a problem because, as others have said, it lowers the rate at which perspiration can escape and slows drying so over an extended trip the waterproof shell actually results in more moisture in the down.

The fabrics you list as "no water resistance" actually do have a DWR (durable water repellent) coating that should be quite effective at keeping condensation, splash and drips on the outside of your bag. Pressing up against something wet can push water through the shell and you do need to refresh the DWR coating every so often. As a side note in this category of "downproof, breathable, DWR" fabrics there is a pretty wide range of how breathable they are and not all are created equal.

So why do companies make bags with waterproof breathable materials if they're not really breathable enough? I guess it's one of those things that sounds like a good idea and it gives the salesperson a talking point.

[Orion]

Waterproof shells can be very useful in conditions where frozen condensate is raining down from the tent ceiling every time the tent gets bumped. On ski tours I frequently take a super light bivy sack for this reason. A DryLoft of similar shell would be better but my bag doesn't have one.

In non-freezing conditions the advantage is minimal and possibly negative. If it's wet enough to where you think you need one you probably really need something else, like a better shelter and/or a synthetic fill for your bag.

[LuxLuthor05]

Thanks so much for this advice guys. I was very unsure.... the last time a bought a bag, water repellant bags were not so much a thing (not that I knew of anyway), and as such I've had zero experience with which to reference from in the way of water repellant bags. Are all these answers taking into account the fact the bag can simply be unzipped in warm weather? Are these moisture build up issues with less breathable bags still an issue if I open the bag when I'm sweating?

My other half is quite short (163cm), and female. We were thinking of getting me the Bungle from One Planet (183cm, -4C comfort rating for women, -10C for men), and getting her the Sea to Summit Latitude III short (170 cm, -10C comfort rating for women, -17C for men.... she says she wants that rating as she struggles to retain her body heat when sleeping on her own). The S2S has their own kind of water repellency on the bag, but she really likes the bag. We checked it out in person at Paddy Pallin, and the quality SEEMED pretty good (she reckons in some ways it was better than the One Planet, which we checked out in Cooma on the same day). After seeing the S2S bag, I am wondering whether I too should get the S2S Latitude... I kind of wish I never saw it cause now I'm torn between the two ....... Does anybody have any experience with the S2S bags, preferably the Latitude model? Can anybody attest for One Planet over S2S or vice versa?

Another thing: has anybody managed to zip these bags together at any point (or at least two different brand/length bags)? I contacted One Planet, and they said they use a YKK #5 zipper. Sea to Summit state on their website that they also use a YKK #5, which they say can zip on to any other YKK #5 toting bag in the Sea to Summit range (which is all but two of their models).... but I'm not sure how well zipping two DIFFERENT BRANDS together works in the real world.... Even if it did zip together, will the shorter bag prevent the longer bag from closing at the ankle? Will they stay together, or will the zip separate in e middle of the night?? So many uncertainties!
I'm so sorry for so many questions... I just HATE buying the wrong thing and then having to either buy again, or put up with my expensive mistake.

[undercling-mike]

The shorter bag will prevent the longer bag closing at the top, they zip together from the bottom so your heads will be at different levels. This all depends on exactly where the zip starts at the foot end of each bag. Get a shop to demonstrate zipping two different length bags together.

For the fabric breathablility/perspiration moisture build up we're not talking about sweat but insensible perspiration, which your body puts out whether you overheat or not (weigh yourself just before bed and right after you get up to see how much). So it's more of a general issue.

[LuxLuthor05]

I thought I was pretty decided on the one planet bungle when I saw one in the flesh at a stockist in Cooma. I was satisfied with how durable it felt (I don't like my gear to feel flimsy)... But afterwards I realised that I was looking at the older model which has a 30 denier shell. The newer model has a 15 denier shell, and I'm wondering whether anyone has had any experience with this? They seem to be the only company claiming that their 15 denier is tough and durable. Sea to Summit use a 20 denier on their latitude series (I like that fabric), but I felt a 10 denier month bag and it felt far too flimsy for me to consider buying. Any of you guys have any advice here?

[wayno]

my 20 denier bag is fine

[undercling-mike]

There's more to fabric durability and feel than just denier of course but with that said the 15 denier fabric I use definitely feels more substantial than the 10d, especially the one with the micro-ripstop grid. That said I've handled a fair range of 10, 15 and 20 denier fabrics and the feel does vary quite a bit within each denier so if it's an important point for you then obviously the best thing will be to see one of the latest models for yourself. I wouldn't personally have any doubts that the 15d fabric would be up to the task.

[Orion]

One of my Western Mountaineering bags (Ultralite) is made from 20 denier fabric. The down will get tired before the shell. The zipper will go before the shell. I know this for certainty since it's my second Ultralite bag -- the first one lost too much of its loft after many years of use, even after getting an overstuff. It's shell is fine.

My quilt is made from 10 denier fabric. At 24g/m2 it's less durable feeling (and more pleasant against the skin) than the 20 denier fabric on my other bag, but after almost five years of use it doesn't have a mark on it. It's actually at the point where I've been thinking it could use a good washing and maybe an extra ounce of down, but the shell is still pristine. I caught it on some chicken wire a few months ago while dragging it outside to escape hut snoring in NZ. I thought I'd probably ripped it open but when I investigated I couldn't find a scratch.

I take some care with my bag, whether I'm sleeping out in the open or in a tent. But really, I don't worry about it. Worst case is some day it gets a little hole that I have to patch.

That said, if you sleep better with heavier fabric, buy heavier fabric.

[whynotwalk]

My colder- and shoulder-season bag for Tassie use is a Mont Spindrift (the -15 bag with waterproof toe box and base). I've got an older model that used Gore Dryloft, rather than Hydronaute.

I've never regretted having that degree of waterproofing in our cool/moist conditions. On some sites, in some weather, no matter how good your pitch, you'll end up with a bit of condensation on the inner of your tent, usually at the foot. Having a waterproof toe box is very useful when your bag inadvertently touches the end of your tent. I've never had a problem with vapour or condensation caused by body heat/moisture.

But having talked up Mont, I've also heard very good things about One Planet bags, and also the Sea to Summit range that uses Ultra-Dry Down. Happy hunting!

cheers

Peter

[Moondog55]

Shell fabric is remarkable stuff
I had to patch a small hole in my J&H bag once; one tiny snag in 30 years and it is not even a modern fabric simply SotA half ounce ripstop from 30 years ago, about half the weight of Pertex from the same year

[roysta]

One of my Western Mountaineering bags (Ultralite) is made from 20 denier fabric. The down will get tired before the shell. The zipper will go before the shell. I know this for certainty since it's my second Ultralite bag -- the first one lost too much of its loft after many years of use, even after getting an overstuff. It's shell is fine.

Absolutely agree on this. I have a Versalite as well, exactly the same.


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[Orion]

I've never regretted having that degree of waterproofing in our cool/moist conditions. On some sites, in some weather, no matter how good your pitch, you'll end up with a bit of condensation on the inner of your tent, usually at the foot. Having a waterproof toe box is very useful when your bag inadvertently touches the end of your tent. I've never had a problem with vapour or condensation caused by body heat/moisture.

That's a good point.

We have a Hilleberg Nallo. It was originally symmetric front to back but was redesigned (before we bought ours) so that it slopes down in back. While this saves a little weight it also means that the toe of your bag almost always pushes up against the fabric. When I asked Hilleberg about this they suggested putting my rain jacket over the toe of my sleeping bag, which is what they said they did. But if you have a Dryloft bag you need not worry.

One downside with a bag that has a highly water resistant shell is that it is harder to stuff. Most people turn Dryloft bags inside out first. And I suspect washing them is also more work. I just finished washing one of my Western bags. It has a "microfiber" shell which seems pretty much impervious to water and maybe air too. The vast majority of the air/water exchange when I was getting the bag wet was through the seam needle holes. My other bags, both older and newer, also have this issue.

It's funny. A wet down bag is worse than useless, so we fear moisture when in the bush. But just try to get one wet one on purpose! It's like attempting to bathe a cat.

[LuxLuthor05]

UPDATE:

Ended up taking the majority of advice and going for the Bungle -10. I confirmed over the phone with Ben at One Planet that the Bungle DOES have DWR coating on the fabric, which means that unlike the Pertex, I can retreat the bag to maintain its water repellancy. I got a new colour that they are releasing which is space grey outer with a maroon inner..... much nicer than the fluoro orange IMO. Can't wait to get it and take it out .