Underqulits for hammocks?

[Moondog55]

I'm wondering if the same R-values are needed for underquilts as for sleeping bags or if you can cut down on the thickness of insulation with the use of a wind barrier and RFL?
How warm is the army Tropical blanket when used as an underquilt? I ask as I'm finding it hard to believe good to freezing as some on the hammock form post or is here a trick here with a secondary layer of trapped air between the woobie and the hammock base?

[andrewa]

Mate, hammock ( with TQ, UQ and tarp) is way colder and heavier than ultralight tent, quilt and light down mat, for the eight.

I've tried both - I personally find hammocks only about "that" comfy, as I move around a lot at night. People who sleep in one position all night would probably love them.

I'm better off in a small tent.

Moondog', I suggest you don't even head down this path, unless you're really good at sleeping on your back without moving all night - in which case a hammock might be more comfy fir you.

A

[Moondog55]

I'm a side sleeper usually.
MYOG and it is a no-cost build. I did find previously that I slept poorly in one but those who use them are so happy that I thought I would give it another go
Making the head end a bridge might stop that tight enclosed claustrphopic feeling I had previously as may making it much bigger.
Having said that I do like Mayan hammocks for resting in the shade but those are a totally diffent style and cannot be carried in a rucksack

[simonm]

Mate, hammock ( with TQ, UQ and tarp) is way colder and heavier than ultralight tent, quilt and light down mat, for the eight.

A

Mmm that is not really true Andrew. If you want to compare an ultralight tent then you need to compare it to an ultralight hammock setup, and then there would very little in it. Our standard hammock and tarp setup, which is not ultralight is 1170grams and a -7c under quilt would start at about 600grams. Mind you most people would choose a hammock for comfort not weight.

[simonm]

I'm wondering if the same R-values are needed for underquilts as for sleeping bags or if you can cut down on the thickness of insulation with the use of a wind barrier and RFL?
How warm is the army Tropical blanket when used as an underquilt? I ask as I'm finding it hard to believe good to freezing as some on the hammock form post or is here a trick here with a secondary layer of trapped air between the woobie and the hammock base?

Your under insulation will be the most important part of your setup MD so I wouldn't cut any corners. If you get the under insulation right you can sometimes go lighter on top but never the other way around. Having said that a wind barrier will assist somewhat, as will a good tarp.

[nq111]

You are a little harsh andrewa

I agree a hammock is much colder than a tent. Warmth in very cold conditions can be achieved, but more of a battle than a tent no doubt. But they excel over a tent in warmer conditions.

A ultralight ground set-up for one (including all insulation) would be lighter, though a hammock setup could probably get close. For a larger group, the weight advantage grows for the ground set-up.

Comfort - well some rate them far more comfortable than on the ground, others not much difference, others less comfortable. No doubt the type and model hammock and the individual comes into play. I find mine very comfortable - i wouldn't say more or less comfortable than a tent (on a perfect pitching location). Of course with the hammock I can camp comfortably in places a tent is going to be uncomfortable or impossible due to the ground conditions - so it wins out for comfort in many practical applications. Also I sleep on my side and toss and turn - no problems in the hammock. But it did take me a number of nights at first to get used to comfortable with sleeping in the new contraption.

All in all, other than the individual details of being comfortable in a hammock (and selecting a hammock that suits you) I reckon hammocks are superior in sub-tropical and tropical conditions and particularly where tent sites are going to be hard to find or uncertain (e.g. untracked walks). Tents are better for colder conditions (with the ability to hole up, cook in the vestibule, get changed in the tent, trap the warmth, etc). I would never consider my hammock in Tassie - you could do it but for most of Tassie a tent is just going to be better.

To the original Q, I tried searching the web for 'army tropical blanket' and found a number of different things (wool blend, synthetic fill) so not sure what you mean. They all looked relatively thin, and I would expect not too warm. Without any science (just guessing from experience) you want as much or more R-value in a hammock to the ground. Wind barrier will definitely add warmth. With a hammock the warmth of your underinsulation can be more than adequate when conditions are still and dry, but when it gets breezy and particularly when the air is moist / misty, the heat gets sucked out from under you very quickly.

Maybe have a look at the fill weights of Tier Gear's synthetic underquilts as a guide. I think the ratings are about right generally (I have a couple), though I have been on occasion a little cold in what I suspect were slightly higher temperatures then rated (no thermometer to check). These conditions were on a tropical mountain-top, with cool, misty breeze blowing all night through the hammock. If I had cut the breeze with a space blanket or similar, or possibly even by dropping the sides of the tarp right down around the hammock, I doubt I would have been the slightest bit cold.

[Moondog55]

Woobie [ poncho liner] AKA Blanket Tropical Sleeping bag liner is a very thinly insulated thing but I read a lot overon hammock forums about people using them down to low temperatures ie; close to freezing
PLUQ
https://theultimatehang.com/2013/01/diy ... nd-no-sew/

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Military ... B001L0VX2W

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/sho ... onal-Video

Quality on the issue ones is variable, the copies even more so but on averge 3mm to 4mm thick, the same as liners for the M-65 Field Coat etc

[andrewa]

Mate, hammock ( with TQ, UQ and tarp) is way colder and heavier than ultralight tent, quilt and light down mat, for the eight.

A

Mmm that is not really true Andrew. If you want to compare an ultralight tent then you need to compare it to an ultralight hammock setup, and then there would very little in it. Our standard hammock and tarp setup, which is not ultralight is 1170grams and a -7c under quilt would start at about 600grams. Mind you most people would choose a hammock for comfort not weight.


An ultralight tent for me is under 700g , quilt 450-700g (450g for summer, 700 for winter) , uninsulated inflatable mat for summer 300g, or Exped ultralight down mat 550g - total 1450g summer, 1950g winter.

Simon, I have only used a Hennesy UltraLight, which I think weighed just over a kg, including small tarp. Then add quilt and underquilt. Top quilt for summer 3-350g, underquilt similar , winter maybe 500g, underquilt the same.

A

[simonm]

An ultralight tent for me is under 700g , quilt 450-700g (450g for summer, 700 for winter) , uninsulated inflatable mat for summer 300g, or Exped ultralight down mat 550g - total 1450g summer, 1950g winter.

Simon, I have only used a Hennesy UltraLight, which I think weighed just over a kg, including small tarp. Then add quilt and underquilt. Top quilt for summer 3-350g, underquilt similar , winter maybe 500g, underquilt the same.

A

Hi Andrew

The Hennessy Ultralight is what would be considered a regular weight hammock when compared to the cottage vendor hammocks, though their standard tarps are much smaller than most. If you want ultralight you will get close to your ultralight tent weight. With a Cuben tarp, lightweight zipper and lightweight suspension but retaining a durable fabric it would be pretty close. You just have to be careful to avoid some of the hammocks that are marketed as the lightest hammocks in the world but are actually just a small hammock with lightweight fabric and usually uncomfortable and not very durable in the long term.

Apologies for the digression MD.

[nq111]

Woobie [ poncho liner] AKA Blanket Tropical Sleeping bag liner is a very thinly insulated thing but I read a lot overon hammock forums about people using them down to low temperatures ie; close to freezing
PLUQ
https://theultimatehang.com/2013/01/diy ... nd-no-sew/

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Military ... B001L0VX2W

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/sho ... onal-Video

Quality on the issue ones is variable, the copies even more so but on averge 3mm to 4mm thick, the same as liners for the M-65 Field Coat etc

Ta.

The comments attached to those suggest down to maybe 7 - 10 degrees celsius is the best people are getting and others not even that cold. It looks like the blanket is pretty thin and others add additional insulation to the basic UQ made with the Army Blanket.

At a guess (Without seeing the stuff) I wouldn't trust such an UQ on its own to less than probably 15 degrees c but it will depend on how cold you sleep. If bulk is not an issue then it would be pretty easy to add a CCF liner to the UQ (The 3mm or 6mm wide stuff from Clark Rubber) which is very warm (as also a good vapour barrier and wind shield) and light and would probably bring you to below 10c no problem. Otherwise, it sounds others add a second layer of primaloft or a rectangular sleeping bag for more insulation. All would work to try but a bit tedious to use with all the layers and weight for a longer term solution.

But all a guess and certainly hammocks get cold under your back more than you probably expect if you are not used to them.

[Moondog55]

Maybe I was thining of a best case? No matter as I can fudge something while trying hammocks for a second time. It was more a case of using what I have and there are couple of these hanging around here