Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Bushwalking gear and paraphernalia. Electronic gadget topics (inc. GPS, PLB, chargers) belong in the 'Techno Babble' sub-forum.
Forum rules
TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.

Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Postby adventurescape » Sun 09 Aug, 2009 4:47 pm

Here's a thought.

Waterproof shells using Goretex, eVent, or whatever specify regular washing to maintain breathability and waterproofness. How the hell does one wash their boots/shoes with a membrane to maintain breathability/waterproofness???

I am trying to follow this boot and shoe thing because it is nearly the last thing I need to sort for my kit. (Although my love of gear will see endless research and shopping , I'm sure.)

I have looked at the Hitec Ion Mask concept and it sounds great, but reports are not so great on the shoe construction side of things and leaking seams/untreated fabric tongue. Apparently it works awesome on the leather.

I am swinging toward the leather boot with no membrane as I see the membrane only having a short lifespan for waterproof service and will be slow drying forever. As for spending $500 on a pair of shoes, I don't think so.

My current shoes were $145 on sale at Kathmandu and were never bought with bushwalking in mind. I got them as approach shoes for rock climbing and general knockabout kind of stuff. They have served very well. They have a membrane, but start walking through anything that reaches up to fabric tongue and the socks get soaked. They are called oboz sawtooth I think. I have done several 50+ km walks in them and have not had grief from them. I have scrambled over never ending scree on Ben Lomond, cooked them too hot in a fire at Junction Lake hut (to the point where the glue started to let go and I could have pulled all layers apart, whoops!) and walked through calf deep water for 15 metres at a time.

I need something that offers better initial waterproof protection and faster, easier drying when thoroughly waterlogged.

Can any one offer 1st hand experience of boots like Rossi or Redback that have decent soles, good support and good tongue construction? I have found that with gaiters on, the only water that does get in is through the mesh fabric tongue of my current shoes, even when the water is calf-deep. I am conptemplating seam sealing with beeswax and treating the leather. I have used Nikwax suede and nubuck on my current shoes, but have not been overly impressed by the performance. Maybe the leather is getting waterlogged from behind, i.e. the membrane side??? Not sure, but waterlogged all the same, despite frequent and thorough treatment.

There must be a leather boot alternative to the $500+ Scarpa option. I hope so. If there is anyone out there who are happy with their alternative, please do yell out!!! :)
adventurescape
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri 03 Apr, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Launceston
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Postby Ent » Mon 10 Aug, 2009 1:03 pm

Nothing wrong with Rossi subject to the model you get but the model wide enough in the front foot (assuming still made) the Falcon is blister central on the heel for me so gave up on them. Like all pure leather boots they will need Snowseal or Nubik wax to seal the seams. Some of he better quality boots impregnate the leather with a waterproofing materials that avoid the leather getting that soak feeling but you still need to seal the seams. The advantage of leather is it will (within sensible bounds) mould to your foot but the heavy the leather the longer this will take but do not fall for the belief that this will happen if the boot is too narrow for you. Snug maybe ok but any pressure on the foot run away. Also leather boots appreciate care and attention plus do not appreciate been dried out by artifical heat.

Regardless of the above walking for hours in water will eventual have some water sneak through plus the leather itself well get damp through. The advantage of leather is you can reapply the wax and all things being equal comeback to where they were.

Seriously a good quality waterproof liner boot and leather boot will serve you well with preference being a personal thing. The only thing is the waterproof liner approach is generally used in conjuction with lighter weight sole and construction so this means that a boot will probably not last as long. Also weight will be a factor. Being heavy and carrying a heavy pack I am told lighter boots will wear rather quickly. I have both sorts and do agree that the soles of the AKU on a few walks through the Launceston George tend to show some sign of wear where the solid soled Scapa's do not. But this could just be AKU chosing a gripper rubber compared to Scarpa.

Based on what I have read on this site and others I would go for a boot made in Italy or at least Romania (Australia if you can get them) by an established boot maker and stear away from the $300 Chinese boots. On special or with haggling you should get Scarpa, AKU, etc at under $300. When checking out Rossi check where they are made as you might find their quality and construction has gone north.

Cheers Brett
"lt only took six years. From now on, l´ll write two letters a week instead of one."
(Shawshank Redemption)
User avatar
Ent
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue 13 May, 2008 3:38 pm
Region: Tasmania

Re: Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Postby loric » Mon 10 Aug, 2009 3:15 pm

I use Alpine Redbacks as work boots both the steel caps and non capped versions, for farm and workshop and have done so for the last 15+ years.
(Prob impossible to claim my $400+ Raichle Mt Trails at tax time LOL - tho it would be awesome if they came as steel caps!)
Redbacks last for ages... they are tough as nails... easy to take care of... cheap - so you don't care as much getting them cut up!
Negatives
- unlined leather is stiff and takes a fair bit to break in;
- Even heavily sno sealed boots will leak at the seams;
- Cold in wet winter grass (even when dry on the inside);
- Fit is nowhere near as good as the Raichles - but as a work boot they are oK;
- The biggest one for me... Soles are crap at shedding clay mud!

I have to wear the heavier boots coz i'm not a lightweight hiker and the vic high country rock is sharp!
My feet are too weak to handle the Volleys.
I envy those who can wear the light shoes and still carry a pack (and not get feet injuries).
I reckon if you like the light weight ones stick with em and get some sealskinz for the really wet, cold trips.

Side note - i find that goretex lined boots dry faster (on the inside) than non-lined boots.
The padding is between the liner and the boot leather and it gets soaked, but your feet will be relatively dry despite the squelching sensation.
My hiking boot progression has been: Redbacks, HiTec, HiTec Magnum, Scarpa Trek, Lasportiva tibet, Salomon AdvTrek7, Raichle Mt Trail.
Raichles are worth every cent (if they fit well)!
loric
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon 16 Feb, 2009 1:14 pm

Re: Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Postby alliecat » Mon 10 Aug, 2009 3:29 pm

adventurescape wrote:Here's a thought.

Waterproof shells using Goretex, eVent, or whatever specify regular washing to maintain breathability and waterproofness. How the hell does one wash their boots/shoes with a membrane to maintain breathability/waterproofness???


I have inov-8 shoes with a gore-tex lining. I wash them the same way I wash my gore-tex jacket. Pure soap to remove the grime/sweat/etc; then wash a second time with nikwax or other wash-in DWR treatment to restore the membrane.

All membranes (gore-text, eVent, etc.) need pretty much the same treatment - a wash to remove the gunk, with something that will not remove what remains of the DWR (usually pure soap rather than detergent will do the trick); followed by a DWR treatment appropriate to the fabric.

BTW, despite what some manufacturers and retailers claim, when a waterproof breathable fabric loses its DWR, it doesn't just lose its "breathability" - it loses its waterproofness too. So maintaining a good DWR treatment is important for all WPB fabrics, whether on your feet or on your back.

Good luck with your boot hunting - there's so many out there and I don't think price is the best indicator of quality. I'd go for a good fitting boot or shoe no matter what the price or brand, as long as the construction seems solid enough. And "good fitting" is a totally personal thing.

Cheers,
Alliecat
alliecat
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu 29 May, 2008 2:17 pm
Region: Tasmania

Re: Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Postby Clownfish » Mon 10 Aug, 2009 3:59 pm

I don't think price is the best indicator of quality. I'd go for a good fitting boot or shoe no matter what the price or brand, as long as the construction seems solid enough. And "good fitting" is a totally personal thing.


I agree totally.

I've had a pair of Mack Flinders for going on two years now, and haven't a bad word to say about them. My feet have always been warm, dry and comfortable.

On the other hand, my wife also has a pair, and they make her ankles ache something chronic.
User avatar
Clownfish
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon 19 Jan, 2009 9:15 am
Location: Meander Valley, Tasmania
Region: Tasmania

Re: Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Postby adventurescape » Mon 10 Aug, 2009 8:32 pm

there's so many out there and I don't think price is the best indicator of quality. I'd go for a good fitting boot or shoe no matter what the price or brand, as long as the construction seems solid enough. And "good fitting" is a totally personal thing.


Damn straight... If you think walking shoes are tricky to get right, try climbing shoes!

Fit is very unique, as is foot structure and strength. Ankle support is important with carrying weight for me. I don't need a stiffening last, due to small feet for my height and being in a healthy weight range.

Thanks Loric for your call on Redbacks. I have heard another 1st hand account of their toughness. If I get something unlined, I will probably go for a size that allows for 2 pairs of socks. A good tread design is also a good point. Slipping around in mud is no fun, as is carrying an extra 1/2 kg per foot if the stuff sticks.

Thanks Brett. I had a pair of hiking style Doc Martens when I was much younger and suffered from the heel seam too. It took heaps of Dubbin and some serious leather manipulation to soften those suckers. Its a pity that Docs have crap tread and the rubber is real slippery in the wet. I'm really not too sure on the lined shoe or boot... If all those layers become waterlogged, the boots weigh a ton. I also hate having hot feet and I don't want a pair of winter and summer boots. I have found the lined ankle-high shoes I have now are borderline in summer with thin ankle length cotton socks and no gaiters.

Clownfish, I saw some Mack's in Allgoods and liked some of their hiking boots, good to hear your experience with them. Some of the seam construction around the tongue looked like it would be easy to seal and minimum chance of leaking, can't remember the model names though.

The older I get, the more pastimes I am trying to indulge/maintain. The amount of stuff I have for different uses is ridiculous. Shoe wise I have 2 pairs cycling shoes (around $200 pair), motocross boots ($400), 2 pairs climbing shoes ($200 pair or so) and that's just shoes. I have been replacing work boots every 12 months or so (steel caps) and they can be good or bad. The previous pair to now were awful, but I was too tight to ditch them sooner. 9 hours a day, 5 days a week, in uncomfortable shoes really started to affect my quality of life. Overly hard soles on concrete all day was causing a lot of lower back fatigue and generally contributing to a sense of constant tiredness. The quality of work boots for the price is awesome in most cases. I reckon there has to be some great ones out there without hard caps for walking that would do the job well for less than $200.

I'll continue to look around and start trying some stuff on.

Any experience that people have had with boots and sealants is hugely appreciated.
adventurescape
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri 03 Apr, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Launceston
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Boots VS Shoes Part(_)?

Postby TouchWood » Mon 10 Aug, 2009 9:33 pm

Hi guys! I just walk in a pair of Blundstone Mountain Masters. Pretty cheap, but comfy. They have served me well for about 7 or so years. Almost due to 'trade-up' i reckon. I use Liquid Aquaseal on them. Quick & easy to apply and works well. I also wear Sealskinz waterproof socks which are fantastic. A bit expensive for socks (about $70), but keeps your feet dry. Nothing worse than walking with cold wet feet. Great website! See Yah!!!
TouchWood
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed 05 Aug, 2009 8:48 pm
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male


Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher and 16 guests