Pack hauling rope or webbing for Western Arthurs

[philm]

In the early stages of planning for the Western Arthurs and wanted to obtain some feedback about the length and best type of rope to take for pack hauling. I understand there are only a few tricky spots where this will be needed.

Questions are:

Rope or webbing?
Length required - will I get away with 10m or need 15/20m?
Diameter of rope - 8mm?

Also I understand taking some gardening gloves comes in handy for the rock?

[Nuts]

There's no 'necessary' hauls I recall (?), 5m of paracord would probably help with a few awkward step downs.

[Moondog55]

Go LW with the cordage and buy some sheathed Spectra about 4mm

[Tortoise]

In the early stages of planning for the Western Arthurs and wanted to obtain some feedback about the length and best type of rope to take for pack hauling. I understand there are only a few tricky spots where this will be needed.

Questions are:

Rope or webbing?
Length required - will I get away with 10m or need 15/20m?
Diameter of rope - 8mm?

Also I understand taking some gardening gloves comes in handy for the rock?

We definitely used gardening gloves in the WAs (lighter gloves rubberised on the palm rather than riggers gloves for serious scrub) - avoids shredding hands from rock or vegetation, and helped with pack hauls. Other people might have leather hands.
I think we did about 3 pack hauls between Moraines A & K. Could have probably done just 2. We are not tall or strong, but I know plenty of other parties do some hauls too. I think one of the hauls was a case of just being too awkward to fit the person and their pack in the required spot at the same time, and passing the packs wasn't an option for us at that point.
We took 10m of rope, maybe 8 mm, maybe less. The trouble we had, even with that rope, was that it was hard to get a good grip on it in the rain to haul it up. I think thinner stuff might be harder than that in the wet?? We actually had to 'decant' stuff in the heaviest pack so we could pull it up the rock.

[Moondog55]

Even for very short hauls it may be worth taking a webbing sling and a few of krabs, much easier to pull down than haul up

[rcaffin]

We took full climbing ropes but did not need them on WA. We did abseil in one place but you can walk around that. We were a bit young and enthusiastic.

Sorry about the quality of the photo - that was taken in the 60s.
(I married the girl later on.)

Cheers

[north-north-west]

Some people need to pack haul in places, some don't. I prefer webbing as it's easier to handle. 10m is more than enough.

[Nuts]

I should admit to taking a sling harness, carabiners and 50m rope when I went with another forum member
Did play around near Lk Oberon with it.

12mm flat or tubular webbing is light and easy on hands.

[philm]

Thanks for the feedback
Sounds like 10m of 12mm webbing will do the trick

[casey79]

Yeah we took 10m of webbing/tape as its easier on the hand. Used it on a couple of sections of the buggery bumps.

[DaveNoble]

Answers may depend on -
- Is your intention to traverse the range (A - K or a full traverse) or just do a short trip - e.g. out to Lake Oberon and back?
- Summer trip or winter?
- Solo or with a party?
- Scrambling ability and how well you can handle exposure
- Any high level traverses? (e.g. Orion - Procyon Traverse)
- Pack weight

My observations are that most walkers can do the full traverse in summer conditions with no pack hauling and pack passing at one place (the hole on Pegasus). But it helps to have experience - it is a lot easier of one or more party members have been through the range before and know what to expect (e.g. The Tilted Chasm).

Also - any rope or other gear you take adds to your pack weight and makes the scrambling harder. Keeping your pack light is important - e.g. drink water that you find en route rather than carry it.

No need to carry gloves except for cold conditions. The rock is quartzite, not dolerite (which does wear your finger skin).

Dave

[Gadgetgeek]

Just some general thoughts from someone who works with climbing rope for a living.

Webbing is easier on the hands, is stupid strong, and can be multi purposed pretty well. knots can be tricky when the load hard (but unlikely with just a pack haul) a simple water knot is very stable, and won't walk out unless you leave the tails way too short. probably the heaviest option.

static/prussic cord. comes in sizes from 4-8mm (generally). should be strong enough, thinner is lighter, but knots will lock harder and its harder to hand pull. pre-set knots, like alpine butterflies help, but they eat into your overall length. A couple wraps around a stick/ spine of a carabiner also work pretty good. I'd probably go with 6mm, balance between weight and usability and is strong enough to use as a handrail, 8mm is still pretty thin to pull just by hand, I don't know that the extra weight is worth the minor gain in comfort. If you know you are going to use a handle, 4mm means you can still have twice the rope length and run a pully, without much change in weight cost. My general utility cord is 3mm and 2mm static/utility cord from any of the climbing companies.

Para cord. strong enough, but very springy, 550lbs can quickly get used up when a few knots and water become involved. Knots can either walk right out, or lock stupid tight, not my favorite. Hard to get "real" 550, cheap stuff is dangerously poor.

2mm spectra-zing-it. Very strong and light, needs a handle added, but that is easily done with a clove hitch. Easy to splice in end loops so a few 10m sections can be linked easily.

2mm poly sheathed spectra (yacht cord) In my experience (limited) it needs stoppers on knots as it can self release. very strong, probably easier to handle to a novice than zing-it, but can only be knotted, not spliced.

Other lines
Kevlar "survival line" kevlar has a pretty low melting point (or rather it simply degrades) and kevlar is pretty abrasive, so it may saw through other stuff more than something like nylon that slips

telecom rope- its blue. Seems to hold half this country together. There are worse choices. pretty light.

[Moondog55]

I use the 5mm or the 6mm sheathed Spectra stuff for my "Survival" rope and I'd weigh my 10m length for you if I could find it in the mess, it's strong enough for a static safety rope; ie: if a fall isn't on the cards. I carried it because sometimes the kids needed a reassurance more than a hand up but it has come in handy on more than one occasion, Its 10 year lifespan is almost up and I will probably replace it with something similar

[Lophophaps]

My preference is for kernmantle, core and sheath. The reason is that the sheath take abrasion and UV and so protects the core, which takes the load. Kernmantle is easier for prussiks. A few krabs and slings may be of use. If abseiling is probable, one long sling that can be easily made into a harness is useful. Allow two more krabs for this, one for the harness and one for twisted krab. I My bushwalking abseil rope is about 20 metres of 6 mm. The pack haul and river crossing rope is about 20 metres of 3 mm.

[bhogan]

I completed A-K in December. I took 10 metres of 7mm. It definitely came in handy for us.

I also highly recommend these gloves (Stinga or Ninja). Best five bucks I've ever spent. They were shredded at the end.

https://sydneytools.com.au/pro-choice-n ... gJkbvD_BwE

I also left some gear at Junction Creek before ascending Morraine A in a last ditch effort to save some weight - I was disappointed to find it wasn't there when I returned.

[ofuros]

Edelrid tech webbing is nice to use, 12mm wide is easier to grasp, light & strong...availability & price per metre are the downsides.

[bernieq]

I also left some gear at Junction Creek before ascending Morraine A in a last ditch effort to save some weight - I was disappointed to find it wasn't there when I returned.

Did you leave a note with it or might people have thought it was abandoned? I've seen seemingly good gear just dropped - at Jcn Ck and on the SCT. Maybe they were thoughtfully removing rubbish.

The OP was asking about pack-hauling - imo, cheap poly cord (hardware shop) is easily strong enough, lightweight and, well, cheap - 5mm, as thinner is too hard on your hands. Take a carabiner (again, cheap - your not climbing with it) to clip the rope to the packs (much quicker than tying/untying) and learn how to tie a knot that is easily untied after being weighted (eg alpine butterfly or figure-8). 15m is easily enough (it can double as extra guy cord in high wind conditions).

Webbing is overkill and difficult to unknot, once weighted.

drink water that you find en route rather than carry it.

No need to carry gloves except for cold conditions.

imo, gloves (eg the ninja-type gloves) are very useful on the WAs and save your hands from rope-burn when pack-hauling. There are also 2 days where there is no accessible water other than at camp.