Biolite stoves?

[Moondog55]

How reliable are they?
I just bought a S/H unit via the Gear Freak page on Facebook without asking any questions first.
I really will need a way of keeping a Smart phone charged and this at $65- posted seemed to be the cheapest method as the small solar panels have proved unreliable in past winters.

[SergeantMcFly]

https://sectionhiker.com/biolite-campst ... -the-hype/

Here is a good run down of the style.

[Dexter]

I liked the look of solar paper by Yolk until I looked further into it. Crazy expensive and I’m not convinced it will charge a phone at a decent speed without at least 4 attachment panels.

The PowerFilm Light Saver seems to be a bit better for bush walking though.

https://youtu.be/gMk5GMSY0Do


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[Moondog55]

Not a particularly flattering review. However as I will be in a fixed camp and only needing to keep my phone topped up it may work for me. I know that I will be using a wood fire quite a lot this winter anyway

[Dexter]

It definitely gets mixed reviews. It seems to me that most potable light weight solar solutions do.

I think the issue is that solar tech is just not there yet. Or if it is, hasn't filtered down to the portable market at an affordable price. Maybe have a look into the Yolk solar paper... I just wasn't comfortable spending that much on something that may work kind of alright.

[Moondog55]

Solar isn't an option in winter when I really need the power, simply not enough sun to use small panels.
My solar panels are too small to charge a decent high discharge deep cycle battery and at the moment deep cycle wet cells are the affordable option and they are not cheap even for the smallest but still much cheaper than dry cell packs.
This is changing but I need a system for this winter

[keithy]

I had a chance to test one out, the one with the griller option.

As a cooker, it is just ok IMHO. Mostly smokeless with the in-built fan (I say mostly a it still did smoke when fuel was low and you had to blow into the base to get it lit). And having been spoilt by ease of flame control on gas stoves, I was not as good with this stove. It consumed twigs fast, and needed constant top ups, which can be a pain if you have a pot on top and not the grill which has direct access to the burner.

For your main concern - the power generation, it is not the most efficient. The power generated is used by the internal fan first and then by the USB output. Using dry wood, and in dry non-windy conditions at under 800m elevation, the USB output was quite low. Usually around 0.25A, and regularly less than 0.4A. Relying on this to charge a phone even to top up a powerbank quickly is really not it's strong suit, even if you could constantly it feed wood. The specs from recollections advertised an output of 1A at 5V but I couldn't get it outputting consistently above 0.4A.

Still, I thought it would be a handy backup stove for car camping/emergencies. I wouldn't rely on it as the primary power source.

Your experiences with solar panels may well have to do with the small size of the panels. I don't recommend those solar powerbanks you can get that are the size of a paperback novel. The surface area is too really small to efficiently charge modern devices.

There are a few of us here that do use solar panels. If you pop over to viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24317 there is a budget one that that a few of us have - and that I've been using for about a year now. It's a 125g 6.5W solar panel, and even with it's basic controller, I've been happy with it's performance on various 6-14 day walks. I'm not babying it as I do my other more expensive panels, so it cops a bit of abuse in and out of my pack as I am curious how long it will last. With this panel in non ideal conditions (strapped to my backpack, walking in and out of sunlight, not always facing the sun) I could still charge up my 10000mAh to around half way in around 5-6 hours. From my USB current meter, it output around 4500mAh. In ideal conditions (not flat on the ground, but angled to face the sun) which you can do at camp, it charges quicker.

If you need stronger solar generation, multi fold panels like the Anker 21W that Mark F has or the Blitzwolf 20W panel that I have also use the higher efficiency panels that work well.

The PowerFilm Light Saver seems to be a bit better for bush walking though.

FWIW, I have used the older powerfilm AA solar charger. I also looked at the Powerfilm lightsaver. While good products, these use panels that are not as efficient as the ones mentioned in that thread above. The lightsaver for example, takes around 6 hours to charge the in built 3200mAh battery, at 0.5A at 5V. The 125g Sunwalk 6.5W charger I mentioned above can output > 1A at 5V, and the tests with the Blitzwolf 20W and Anker 21W panels I have show it can achive outputs of up to 2A. This can reduce the charging time of a 3200mAh lithium battery to around 2-3 hours.

[Moondog55]

Thanx Keithy

I wonder if there is some inconsistency in the module itself then.
I see on the Biolite website that there are no actual figures for the USB outlet, or at least none that I could find

[Warin]

It's a 125g 6.5W solar panel, and even with it's basic controller, I've been happy with it's performance on various 6-14 day walks. I'm not babying it as I do my other more expensive panels, so it cops a bit of abuse in and out of my pack as I am curious how long it will last. With this panel in non ideal conditions (strapped to my backpack, walking in and out of sunlight, not always facing the sun) I could still charge up my 10000mAh to around half way in around 5-6 hours. From my USB current meter, it output around 4500mAh.

Errr there are mixed things here ...
Current has units of Amperes (A) =, no 'h' in current.
Your USB meter might be reading charge capacity .. in Ampere hours (Ah). (The 'm' is an SI multiplier so I have ignored it for clarity.)

Humm 4.5 Ah in 5 hours ..averaging 0.5 Amps per hour ... 2.5 Watts. That is not bad for the non optimal conditions.

[keithy]

I wonder if there is some inconsistency in the module itself then.
I see on the Biolite website that there are no actual figures for the USB outlet, or at least none that I could find

Not sure which version you have, but the one I used was the original one. It has an internal lithium battery (a 17335 700mAh 3.7V cell) that is used solely for operating the fan. That is why the manual recommended "pre charging" the module to make sure the fan and your flame could run efficiently.

It generates electricity using a small Thermoelectric Generator (TEG) around 4cm x 4cm. It works by the differential in temperature to each side - the heat from the fire side, and the cooling from the fan side as it passes through to the firepit.

The USB output only occurred when the TEG has reached a minimum wattage to ensure the operation of the internal fan, and only then will it send excess power to the USB output.

If you have the newer model - the CampStove 2, this has a larger internal lithium battery (appears to be a 18650 2600mAh 3.7V cell). This is similar to the cells used in the lipstick shaped lithium powerbanks. With their charging controller, when the internal battery is sufficiently charged, I suspect it will be able to output at a higher current to keep your smartphone charged. And the TEG when used with a fire will keep the internal battery topped up.

[keithy]

Errr there are mixed things here ...
Current has units of Amperes (A) =, no 'h' in current.
Your USB meter might be reading charge capacity .. in Ampere hours (Ah).

I use a USB current meter that logs the cumulative current capacity that has passed through to the device being charged. It logs capacity in mAh until manually reset. It will also display the actual voltage in V and current in A. From recollection it was around 4400mAh.

That is why I have been pleasantly surprised by that cheap panel. Sure, the charging controller is pretty basic, but it works well and is significantly lighter than my other panels (I have Goal Zero, Instapark, Blitzwolf, and others)

[Dexter]

FWIW, I have used the older powerfilm AA solar charger. I also looked at the Powerfilm lightsaver. While good products, these use panels that are not as efficient as the ones mentioned in that thread above. The lightsaver for example, takes around 6 hours to charge the in built 3200mAh battery, at 0.5A at 5V. The 125g Sunwalk 6.5W charger I mentioned above can output > 1A at 5V, and the tests with the Blitzwolf 20W and Anker 21W panels I have show it can achive outputs of up to 2A. This can reduce the charging time of a 3200mAh lithium battery to around 2-3 hours.

Awesome, thanks for the tip. Will have to track one down.


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[michael_p]

If you can cope with occasional strong language, Canadian Youtuber AvE has done a teardown of a Biolite Stove. Search youtube for: "ave boltr biolite". It should be the first video in the search results.

Michael.

[Franco]

BTW, Bio Lite now have a Cook Stove.
This has a battery built in that you charge via USB but no Peltier device to give power out.

Pretty much direct competition to the Sierra Stove.

[Moondog55]

Mine is coming from Darwin so it will be another week or maybe two until I can fire it up. If a high heat is needed to charge up devices then the obvious solution in a lot of places is all that charcoal lying around or like I do in winter car camping sometimes a bag of Heat-Beads
If it doesn't work to charge the new Smart phone it will at least let me warm my hands as I wait for the billy to boil.
Any thoughts on an appropriate size of windscreen to use and a good clearance distance? I have some corrugated aluminium roofing I can easily cut to size

[Moondog55]

Hmmm Battery may need replacing. It arrived this AM and while it has been hooked up to the USB all day it still hasn't gone green to indicate a full charge

[michael_p]

Have you plugged it into your computer or into a power point adapter? A computer usb port has a limit on the amount of power it can supply and will charge devices far more slowly. Also, if the device was very low on power it may take some time to charge fully.

Cheers,
Michael.

[Moondog55]

High current power point adapter
I'll leave it on as long as I can but more than 12 hours usually means a new battery needed doesn't it?

[michael_p]

No idea. Leave it overnight and see what happens.

[Moondog55]

Well I think it finally did charge up and I gave it a quick test in the back yard. Lighting a fire in the tiny firebox is no problem but without a proper test lead I can't tell what the output is. I suppose i could strip a spare USB cable tho, what wires do I use to test Voltage and Current?
Anyway the thing is a bit of a gimmick with some serious design flaws which tell me the designers were geeks and not walkers. The pot supports are far too close to the fire and there isn't enough room for full flame development and complete combustion and you cannot feed the fire without taking the billy off the flame and an army kidney cup will not sit on the supports either, something that some people think important
It just took 12 minutes to boil the billy [ 1500ml - my normal 2 cup size] which is about twice the time it takes using a tin can hobo stove, mostly I assume due to the fact that the A-10 hobo stove has the tin can as an integrated windshield for a half the billys height.
Being a simple 2 layer air path the incoming combustion air isn't preheated so all the fan does is add draft
The only reason I can see for taking this little gadget this winter is the ability to top up my smart phone.
Perhaps the 2nd generation and third generation stoves are better but if you have been thinking of buying a S/H first generation I would spend the money of a little tin can and a new titanium billy with bail instead
Copied to the Review section also

[michael_p]

Glad to hear it finally charged up.

You can get inexpensive usb testers on Ebay. Search for "usb tester". I have one and it is very handy.

Michael.

[Neo]

Nice idea the biolite.
I got an Anker 21W for Christmas. The three panel one, already had some battery packs.

Charges a phone & pack in 4hrs good sun. Still charges when overcast so will prob work in winter/snow.
$169 online but have seen it for about $69 on eBay.

[Moondog55]

Glad to hear it finally charged up.

You can get inexpensive usb testers on Ebay. Search for "usb tester". I have one and it is very handy.

Michael.

I did not know that they were so cheap, Thanx I just ordered one

[Franco]

There is a second generation Biolite, called Biolite 2 :
https://www.traveluniverse.com.au/BioLi ... gKwp_D_BwE

[Moondog55]

Still has the same problems Franco, no preheating of the combustion air and the pot sits too close to the burner.
Mine will probably boil a billy faster after I make a decent tall windshield
Now the big Rocket stove iteration has definite uses for developing countries/car camping etc
https://row.bioliteenergy.com/products/ ... 1962825035