Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Warin » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 5:55 pm

emma_melbourne wrote:I got the gaiters mainly for snakebite protection.

Avoiding snakes (and spiders webs) ...

Rule 1. Don't be first.
Rule 2. Don't let the gap between you and the person in front exceed, say, 100 meters.
Rule 3. Look where you walk. Stop if you want to look around.

The last rule helps with all sorts of things .. falling over, straining ankles. A stop every 100 meters for a good look around - 360 degrees - can get you all sorts of information .. like a front sneaking up behind you.

How many have been bitten on the OLT? Compared to how many walk it? Much more likely to be killed in a traffic crash and not many of us worry about that. Stick to Rule 3 as that solves a lot of problems.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Zapruda » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 6:03 pm

emma_melbourne wrote:So I'm not going to die over not taking a compass, map, emergency bivvy, etc.


Is the bivy really necessary though? In what circumstance would you use it instead of your tent or a hut?

I understand your caution, but the reality is that the OT is a very well trodden track especially that time of the year. You are unlikely to deviate from the track outside of side trips.

I am not advocating that you pack irresponsibly at all by the way. I always encourage people not to pack their fears.

It is only 65km after all...
Last edited by Zapruda on Mon 09 Jul, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby nezumi » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 6:08 pm

emma_melbourne wrote:@Walk_fatboy_walk and @nezumi
I got the gaiters mainly for snakebite protection. I'm not sure if I'll be wearing pants or a hiking skirt. (I do prefer a hiking skirt, but pants have some sensibility for sun protection and from branches or anything else I rub against, or if I trip help prevent the worst of the scrapes to the skin).



emma_melbourne wrote:Regards the "shakedown" - no I didn't know about it. But I always welcome people "shaking me down". If there's anything crazy in my pack - I'm always open to advice or at least questioning.
I shudder when I think at how much weight I stupidly took out on my first experiences. Ugh! Embarassing! Someone should have literally grabbed me by the shoulders and shook me. lol. And the problem is the shops that sell gear want to sell you gear. lol


I was fortunate in that I started hiking in the Duke of Edingburgh program at a relatively young age. On our first hike (an overnighter) the hike leader/head of the DoE program insisted that all participants were driven to the trail head, and that we arrive by 8:00AM for a 9:00AM departure. Once we got there the reason for both of these requirements became apparent - you had to empty out your full pack for checking, and be able to repack it without taking too long. This meant that any useless or ridiculously heavy gear was left behind (Single burner butane stove anyone?) and that you could repack your gear without needing to meticulously place every single item to cram it all in. He had a few spare replacements for almost any item that had to be abandoned. He also had a set of bathroom scales, to check everyone's pack weight versus body weight.

emma_melbourne wrote:@Walk_fatboy_walk and @nezumi
As I'm solo hiking, it also means I'm building in a bit of safety and redundancy, and taking a PLB and a SOL emergency bivvy "just in case". I haven't ever got into any trouble before. But I remember growing up in NZ you'd read quite frequently about hikers dying. Just last week, two hikers died a very short distance from a hut, and they weren't inexperienced hikers either. They had pretty good gear, but didn't have a map and compass or a PLB, and were caught out in viscious weather with extreme cold and reduced visibility, and got hypothermia and disorientated very quickly.
So I'm not going to die over not taking a compass, map, emergency bivvy, etc.


That's a fair point. There are a couple of phrases that summarise this attitude within the ultralight "community" - 'Hike your own hike' and 'don't go stupid light'. Stupid light is taking measures that reduce your weight, but in doing so put your own safety or the safety of others in jeopardy. Hike your own hike is pretty much "you do you" for hiking - as long as it doesn't hurt me or the environment, I'm not going to tell you how to do a hike.

I fully understand the concern for safety - I am a youngish dad of a 2.25 year old, so I of course want to ensure I take whatever steps are necessary to make it back to him. On the flip side, however, I'm not going to go so far onto the risk averse side that I don't have fun or take a chance on anything.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby nq111 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:20 pm

Yeah, the emergency bivvy is a good idea.

They are light and function as an emergency bivvy or space blanket.

Also, if it is colder than expected, using the emergency bivvy as a vapour barrier liner within your sleeping bag will give you quite a bit of extra warmth.

I also support taking a PLB.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:24 pm

@Zapruda - The SOL emergency bivvy I take in my "day hike" bag for side trips. So I'd use it if I got caught out in a blizzard / injured / broke leg and awaiting assistance and stuck overnight, etc.

It can also be helpful in the event of a piece of equipment failing, such as tent rip / hole, or mat failure, as you can improvise an improved situation with the help of Emergency bivvy. Such as hole in tent bottom, while using tenacious tape - or silicone sealer which needs to go on dry tent, bivvy is extra layer between me and mat and quilt and puddle on tent bottom from hole in tent. Or tent ripped by a tree branch, it can be put over tent rip and tied down. Or sleeping mat failure, it's an option for another layer around me to help with insulation, as a sleeping bag bivvy. Etc.

It's 108 grams, and tiny small, so as a small insurance policy, it's worth it - for me personally.

In a lot of cases reported in New Zealand, of hikers dying, a number I believe could have been saved if they'd had the 108 gram SOL Emergency bivvy with them. Typically it's a situation like unexpected cold turn / got injured and forced to be out overnight unexpectedly while on a day hike or having planned to overnight at a hut which they haven't reached due to weather or injury from fall.

@nezumi Ah - I wish I had of done Duke of Edinburgh at school.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Zapruda » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:34 pm

You are packing for a lot of what if’s to be honest.

Hopefully this walk on the OT will help you gain a bit of experience and also more confidence in your gear and help put into perspective what you actually need and what you don’t.

At the end of the day you have to pack and carry what makes you happy and feel comfortable. Good luck.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:50 pm

@Zapruda

By all means hit me with what you personally wouldn't take. That's a shake-down after all.

I'm gauging that you wouldn't take the Gaiters, you wouldn't take the SOL Emergency Bivvy... anything else?

Keep in mind I am a solo hiker, not going in a group, and I am a solo mother of a 2 year old - with no other family to speak of.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Zapruda » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 9:03 pm

I would be happy to, Emma. I’ll go through your lighterpack when I’m on a proper computer tomorrow.

When I’m not leading club trips I hike solo (around 90% of my walks) so I understand your predicament.

I take a pretty minimal approach to packing which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 9:08 pm

Thank you @Zapruda :) I appreciate it.

I'm always open to suggestions / critique / questioning by more experienced hikers.

I can't say I'll action 100% of your advice, but I'm definitely open to constructive criticism / challenge, and likely will action some of it if sensible.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 9:11 pm

Emma you have plenty of time to do a few shakedown weekend walks between now and then.
I carry and pack to much not because of any fears but because I hate being cold and uncomfortable. I'm headed up to Pretty Valley Falls Creek later this week and the sled will probably have 60 kilos on it. But season before last it was over 90 kilos
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Warin » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 9:15 pm

I'd take gaiters .. not for the snakes but for mud, rain.

I'd not take the emergency bivvy. I have an emergency blanket in the first aid kit that would do the same kind of thing, but I can also use it in other ways. It is cheaper too, probably smaller and lighter, they come in most cheap first aid kits.

Do remember that your going to be travelling with people along the entire length so you will not be on your own. That helps from a community view - you all experience similar conditions so can help each other with methods/skills/knowledge. If you have a problem .. talk about it - not moan about it .. but seek solutions. Most have wet feet.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Lamont » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 9:30 pm

..... "gain a bit of experience and also more confidence in your gear", I reckon that's the nub of it. Much of your gear is completely untried, as is this type of tramp (I believe) for you, so there are all those "ifs", but once you get out, and get out often overnight in the next months, a much clearer evaluation by you, will be possible. I would not be surprised given your trip is a very long six months away, that you change some of your choices after trying your new gear and start to realise what you can trust and can't (and how much you can trust yourself and your abilities) and what you can discard. Everyone with a brain probably takes too much at first. All you have to do is walk in wet mesh shoes for three days to realise it can be done, it's a bit sh----y, but maybe you have to do it first. There will be lots of bodies down there in January, you won't be starved for company most of the time. You will have a sweet trip, I'm sure.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby jdeks » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 10:40 pm

emma_melbourne wrote:Thank you @Zapruda :) I appreciate it.

I'm always open to suggestions / critique / questioning by more experienced hikers.

I can't say I'll action 100% of your advice, but I'm definitely open to constructive criticism / challenge, and likely will action some of it if sensible.


I just had a squiz over your list.

Honestly, I think it looks fine. Better than fine, it's quite a solid, well thought out beginners lightweight kit. Maybe a lighter mattress is an option, but really, short of going and spending mondo dollars on lots of carbon fiber and cuben, you're about as light as you can get for that level of comfort and capability.

You could quibble on forever about arbitrary bits and pieces to save maybe 500g here or there - personally I'd ditch the hiking poles...but then add twice as much with a DSLR. But the reality is the suitability for you personally of leaving or taking one thing or another aren't going to be apparent until you're out there in the field.

I think your next step should just be to go for a hike. :)
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:11 pm

@jderks Thanks for that. Yep I don't think my contents or weight are appallingly bad. It's made a big difference this week buying a lighter tent on sale this week (my new Solong 6 tent sample tent from Judy in 30 Denier polyester from Lightheart Gear sale, on its way by post right now!) and the Massdrop Granite Gear Crown X 60 bought today. Those two items saved about 1.8 kg.

And yes I could have got a cheaper tent by going for a 1 person, instead of 1.5 person, and save another 200 odd grams, but the 1.5 person tent means I can use the tent in the future with my daughter while she's 3-6 years old age range, and her small 120 cm length mat should fit nicely.

Or, as you say, the next step up is something like the Zpacks Cuban Fibre Duplex with attendant cost of US $599 plus shipping.

Ditto the backpack, the Granite Gear Crown X 60 strips down to just under 1 kg. And the only way I could get considerably lighter on that was to spend US $300 ish for Zpacks pack, plus extra for various additions such as hip pockets at US $30 a pop plus shipping, and gone light on the frame, or frameless. And that doesn't make sense to me to do until I've got everything else in my pack towards the ultralight end, as they don't carry heavy weights comfortably or well.

So in my view, we're looking at the mat being the main other weight-saving proposition, but it's more marginal cost-benefit ratio, of basically $200 for 200 grams savings. And other than that - tinkering on small items.

I suspect / speculate that @Zapruda may come back saying I should switch boots for trail runners, ditch the camp shoes, ditch the gaiters, get rid of 1 x pair panties, and 1 x pair socks, and don't bother with rain pants. We'll see.

Re going for a hike, I hear ya, but it's admittedly difficult as I have a 2.5 year old who doesn't want to hike but rather meander and dawdle and play with sticks. And also doesn't want to go in baby carrier or pram anymore. [Insert noisy toddler whining, kicking and throwing weight around] And it's cold at present, and I live in Melbourne city.

So I'm thinking maybe a hike in September on the Great Ocean Walk, picking a weekend when her Dad has her, and convince him to take her 2 nights rather than 1 - is my best stab at a multi-day hike ahead of the Overland Track.

Until then, it's gym and walks around the park I suspect.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby jdeks » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:30 pm

emma_melbourne wrote:So in my view, we're looking at the mat being the main other weight-saving proposition, but it's more marginal cost-benefit ratio, of basically $200 for 200 grams savings.


Have a look at my reply in your mat thread - its more like 350g savings (50% of your current mat) and can be done for well under $200... so maybe worth looking into.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:40 pm

Yes but if I'm buying a Thermarest NeoAir XLite, I'd *want* the large size for the extra width.

I hear you on the Women's mat, and it is an option. I am 170.5 cm high, so it's nearly do-able. But whenever I think about buying a Thermarest in regular or women's some part of brain is like "nooo - want width". Otherwise comfort-wise it feels a step downwards for me, as I'd end up with a more crinkly mat, small size which is uncomfortable for my sleep style, and the surface fabric not as nice to sleep on than my current mat.

Whereas a large size, it's 460 grams versus 900 grams large size mat I have, and I get that nice width that I like. Sigh of enthusiasm.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Zapruda » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 8:15 am

Hey Emma,

I agree with Jdeks. Your list is solid and it shows a great effort to reduce weight without many compromises. Congrats!

Just a few things I would look into leaving behind or replacing if money permits. Keep in mind that I believe in saving grams where ever I can. Even if it is only 1 or 2 here or there.

• You could save about 100g by going to a lighter pot. Think Evernew from Tier Gear or a Toaks. They can be had for about $70+ depending on size
• Ditch the Pot stand and scourer. You won’t have any problems finding a flat spot. I just use my finger and some dirt to clean my pot.
• Leave the bandana. Just shake the water out of the clean pot. It can go back into the pack a bit damp.
• Runners instead of boots.
• Leave the gaiters
• I wouldn’t bring the third merino top. 1 extra is enough
• Bring only one spare pair of briefs
• Same with the socks
• Ditch the towel or replace with something lighter
• Your pack will have a whistle if not get a 5 gram one. That one is too heavy and the compass on it will be useless.
• Ditch the bivy 
• I would leave the camp shoes behind or replace with something lighter
• Leave the storm matches. A bic is fine and most people won’t be able to start a fire if its wet anyway.
• Could you just use the Opsak and leave the food bag behind?
• Zseat could go

Potential weight saved - 808 grams (not including worn items)

If you went for a lighter mat you could save another 200-300 grams.

So there goes a kilo if you wanted.

Also if you are going to bring the maps and compass make sure you know how to use them. Many people bring them and wouldn't have the first clue about taking a bearing or finding themselves on the map etc.

This is just my opinion and of course everyone else’s comfort levels differ. I spend 60+ nights of the year in a tent, mostly in the alpine and have got by doing some pretty adventurous things way off track with the bare minimum. I seem to have always made it work and with relative comfort too.

Cheers.
Last edited by Zapruda on Tue 10 Jul, 2018 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 9:19 am

Emma I just checked your list for the first time. Unless you are set on wearing merino I'd swap out to an UL polyester fleece and only take one spare layer and I would take the bandanna and leave the microfibre towel.
Camp shoes could be replaced by Tyvek clean room booties but the camp shoes can be slept in for added warmth so I count them as part of the sleeping system
I'd keep the bivvy, not so much as a bivvy but as a Vapour Barrier liner in case you get a very bad cold snap. If you take the storm matches be aware that they won't work unless you also take a stack of proper fire lighters too and in an emergency there should be other people around so a warming fire/emergency signal probably isn't going to be needed.
I see no warm hat or beanie in the clothing list or a scarf/buff.
Ditch the storm matches therefore and add in an UL balaclava and a beanie, in an emergency you need to keep the head warm. my big polar balaclava has saved my life at least 3 times.
An important point not mentioned so far as I could see; can you comfortably layer up and wear ALL of your clothing at once? Including the rain suit??
No point having a layer if you can't wear it, even if it is supposedly a dedicated sleep layer
Pot stand probably not needed with a 200g canister but if you took smaller 100g canisters it definitely is
I could probably find a spare and unused UL fleece balaclava here for $10- posted. I lucked into some last year and bought spares for the tadpoles, still in the gear drawer I
think
Add in breadbags at 5 g each, they make great footbags and emergency overmittens, you need at least 4 and recycle them at the end of the trip
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Franco » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 12:29 pm

Add in breadbags at 5 g each, they make great footbags and emergency overmittens, you need at least 4 and recycle them at the end of the trip

Yes, yes
Yes.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 12:30 pm

As others have said your gear list is reasonably good but I think there is room for improvement.

Some suggestions/comments.

- Pack liner - If it rains for a long time then water will seap in to your pack. I see you have dry sacks for your sleeping bag and clothes but what about the sleeping mat/maps etc. You don’t want them wet. And I like to have two waterproof barriers for my sleeping bag/clothes.. as they are essential survival equipment. Don’t use a pack cover.

- day pack weight? Keys/wallet weight?

- Warmth Are you sure you will be warm enough with only a very lightweight down jacket, 2 x merino baselayer and vapor/wind barrier(rain jacket)? It wont matter if your spending all your time in huts in the evening but if your outside doing cooking in the evenings/early morning.. I would be cold in those clothes at 6 degrees especially if its windy. . If your previous experience is with campfires.. its astounding how cold you can get when you no longer have the fires warmth. You need a beanie minimum.

- 1xSpare underwear/1x spare socks: Keep. Nothing better than putting on fresh stuff on day 3/4
- Make sure you can wear your merino thermal bottoms as outerwear if leggings get wet.

- Zseat - keep. You need insulation from cold ground when at lunch or preparing meals.

- First aid kit. More drugs.. Cold and flu tablets 6 tabs min., Painkillers 6 tabs min.. Gastro stop 6 tabs. If you get sick drugs will turn your hike from a nightmare to just slightly uncomfortable.
Alcohol swaps – Just one is fine. (if a wound is highly contaminated). A good rinse with clean water will be effective in 99% of cases and wont kill the good skin around the wound.
Add a snake bite bandage (setopress).
Put all FA in Ziploc bag.

- Add Lip balm and moisturizer. A cold wind and your skin drys out very quickly.
- Body glide.. I find this essential after a couple of days to prevent chafing.

- mobile phone? Put a mapping app on it and you have an emergency gps. A reading app for night reading. No photo taking? If you will take photos then you can use your phone. You will need a power bank to top up the power. Keep phone in flight mode. (or off if only using for emergency purposes)

- Remove matches. You have the mini BIC lighter. but i always have a spare in my FA kit.

- remove whistle/compass in one.

- remove pillowcase use the dry sack your clothes are in.

- Remove gaiters. Your wearing boots and have rain paints. A snake bite is very unlikely. Best reason for gaiters IMHO is leg protection but you will be walking on a track so you wont need if you look where you are going.

- remove bandana for drying pot, remove pot scourer and pot stand. I find hot tea and hands provide a good rinse capability. And your going to be heating the pot before you use again.. so this will sterilise it.

- Spoon/spork - If your using commerical freeze dried meals then swap for a long handled spoon. (the commerical meals are not that great). Long handle will save messy hands.

- consider removing spare batteries for headlamp. Test the headlamp (in cold weather) but as long as one set provides decent light for 18 hours (3 hours use daily) you wont need a spare for 6 days. You’re not doing night navigation. In practise your likely to be using the headlamp for under 2 hours per night if your hanging out in the huts during the evening.

- consider removing hut booties. Thick socks or thongs will work. Ask recent walkers how dirty the hut floor is.

- take twice as many baby wipes as you think you will need. They are great for everything especially a body wipe down before bed. Edit. see moondogs bandana suggestion for more eco friendly/more lightweight.

-Remove microtowel. Use the bandana moondog suggested.

- Food. Suggest dividing your food by days (not meals) into plastic ziplocks as it makes it easier to eat the correct amount and find. Also act as rubbish bags.
- Food bag. 20L seems too big for 6 days. 15L should be fine if you can get that size and it weighs less than the 20L.

- Can you fit all your gear into your pack? If not consider compression dry sack for your sleeping bag.

Edit - added some stuff
Last edited by wildwanderer on Tue 10 Jul, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 12:42 pm

Baby wipes are not compostable tho and I personally have stopped using them for environmental reasons and without a campfire you can't burn them so they need to be packed out, so add in a ziplock bag So actually a weight gain there, use more unscented toilet paper is my solution but that's why I carry a big bandanna.
My own cotton bandanna is 1200 * 1200 and 70 grams, my winter bandanna is silk and cotton and 50 grams, anything smaller than 900 * 900 is a handkerchief
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 12:54 pm

Moondog55 wrote:Baby wipes are not compostable tho and I personally have stopped using them for environmental reasons and without a campfire you can't burn them so they need to be packed out, so add in a ziplock bag So actually a weight gain there, use more unscented toilet paper is my solution but that's why I carry a big bandanna.
My own cotton bandanna is 1200 * 1200 and 70 grams, my winter bandanna is silk and cotton and 50 grams, anything smaller than 900 * 900 is a handkerchief


Very true and a good suggestion to minimise the baby wipes carried. I hadnt thought of using a damp bandana for body cleaning as Im rarely walking in areas where I have spare water. (but should beplenty of spare water on the overland)
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 1:15 pm

I consider a bandanna so essential that I don't list it when I write my packing lists. Just one of those things, but Cecile sews them up for me from Ultra light fabric when we find such fabrics as scraps, it is ethereal stuff. A scrap of cotton and silk here waiting to be edge stitched on the overlocker is 1500 * 1500 and 70 grams.
Yes it weighs 70 grams but for me an essential in all weathers
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby jdeks » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 2:43 pm

This thread is like my internal monologue before a High Plains trip. Of course, then I decide to take two scotch fillets for dinner, making all those matches I chopped in half seem kindof pointless.

Most of the suggestions here for ditching equipment involve weight loss, but also capability loss too. Some I'd personally say are bordering on 'stupidlight' (sillylight? Riskylight??). If you want to go Full Aragorn as I call it, I reckon you could "trim" 2, even 3 kilos from your weight, but the question if how far do your want to go??

- Gaiters are weight, but muddy wet pants are too. Also they're annoying.
- Camp shoes aren't necessary, but gee they're useful if your feet have been wet, cold and pruney all day (over 6 days this can become a legit health issue).
- Camp seat is totally unnecessary, but boy are people gonna be jelly if your'e eating lunch, getting changed, airing feet, or indeed doing anything on wet ground.
- Spare torch batteries are completely useless, until that one time they're absolutely essential, at which point you'd carry a car battery if it were available.

You're only going to know what you personally need by field testing. For example, I always carry 20-30m of 5mm rope these days, even though its another 500g or so. Why? Because I've had so many instances where I wished I had it, that it's a worthwhile safety margin for me. Same with a good sized hunting knife. Others wouldn't consider these in a pink fit - they just dont need them for their requirements.

Likewise with your sleeping mat - from what you describe with your sleeping position and bouncy toddler, your current SIM seems like the best choice. Stick with it, until it's demonstrating in usage that it's not.

You can go round in circles all day on forums...
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Ms_Mudd » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 7:37 pm

wildwanderer wrote:
-Remove microtowel. Use the bandana moondog suggested.



Or you could consider Chux. I cut them up and have bit for 'pits n bit's', one for face and then a slightly larger cut piece to use as a towel, just dampen and use in place of baby wipes and any setting you would need a microfibre towel. If I am feeling fancy I will also have a small square with my cook kit, if not, I just let my pot air dry as best I can. Those itty pieces of chux weigh nothing. I just rinse and reuse throughout a trip, they are absorbent and dry super quick.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 10:01 pm

jdeks wrote:This thread is like my internal monologue before a High Plains trip. Of course, then I decide to take two scotch fillets for dinner, making all those matches I chopped in half seem kindof pointless.

Most of the suggestions here for ditching equipment involve weight loss, but also capability loss too. Some I'd personally say are bordering on 'stupidlight' (sillylight? Riskylight??). If you want to go Full Aragorn as I call it, I reckon you could "trim" 2, even 3 kilos from your weight, but the question if how far do your want to go??

- Gaiters are weight, but muddy wet pants are too. Also they're annoying.
- Camp shoes aren't necessary, but gee they're useful if your feet have been wet, cold and pruney all day (over 6 days this can become a legit health issue).
- Camp seat is totally unnecessary, but boy are people gonna be jelly if your'e eating lunch, getting changed, airing feet, or indeed doing anything on wet ground.
- Spare torch batteries are completely useless, until that one time they're absolutely essential, at which point you'd carry a car battery if it were available.

You're only going to know what you personally need by field testing. For example, I always carry 20-30m of 5mm rope these days, even though its another 500g or so. Why? Because I've had so many instances where I wished I had it, that it's a worthwhile safety margin for me. Same with a good sized hunting knife. Others wouldn't consider these in a pink fit - they just dont need them for their requirements.

Likewise with your sleeping mat - from what you describe with your sleeping position and bouncy toddler, your current SIM seems like the best choice. Stick with it, until it's demonstrating in usage that it's not.

You can go round in circles all day on forums...


The OP asked for opinion and people have given up their time to respond. Of course, it all personal opinion and based on individual experience. Opinions and experiences vary. The OP mentioned she doesn’t have an opportunity to do much field testing which is why many have given their opinion.

Honestly, I think a lot of the weight reduction tips have been quite reasonable. People are giving the OP options so she can consider the trade off.

eg no one said spare torch batteries are completely useless. What was said was do a test in cold weather before departure to see if one set of batteries will be enough for the typical usage profile. OP is using a Petzl Tikkini which has a low power (verified) burn time of 221 hours per set of batteries. Leaving that torch on low power 24/7 for 6 days = 144 hours.

Personally I would bring along a sit pad.. but others sit on their pack and it works fine.

Gaiters.. I always wear them off track but, on a track I don’t feel I need them. Liquid mud will find its way under a gaiter. They can be helpful in thick non watery mud.. it’s a trade off of extra weight/sweating legs vs prevention of muddy trousers/leggings if the mud tops the OPs boots.

Hut shoes. thick socks/thongs/slippers do the same job and weigh less. Might be slightly less comfortable.. it’s a tradeoff
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby jdeks » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 10:50 pm

wildwanderer wrote:The OP asked for opinion and people have given up their time to respond. Of course, it all personal opinion and based on individual experience. Opinions and experiences vary. The OP mentioned she doesn’t have an opportunity to do much field testing which is why many have given their opinion.

Honestly, I think a lot of the weight reduction tips have been quite reasonable. People are giving the OP options so she can consider the trade off.

eg no one said spare torch batteries are completely useless. What was said was do a test in cold weather before departure to see if one set of batteries will be enough for the typical usage profile. OP is using a Petzl Tikkini which has a low power (verified) burn time of 221 hours per set of batteries. Leaving that torch on low power 24/7 for 6 days = 144 hours.

Personally I would bring along a sit pad.. but others sit on their pack and it works fine.

Gaiters.. I always wear them off track but, on a track I don’t feel I need them. Liquid mud will find its way under a gaiter. They can be helpful in thick non watery mud.. it’s a trade off of extra weight/sweating legs vs prevention of muddy trousers/leggings if the mud tops the OPs boots.

Hut shoes. thick socks/thongs/slippers do the same job and weigh less. Might be slightly less comfortable.. it’s a tradeoff


Mate I think you've taken bits of my post a bit too selectively and literally, and in getting defensive over individual points, have missed the forest for all the trees.

But now we're just going in circles.....was there a compass on that list?
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby emma_melbourne » Tue 10 Jul, 2018 10:53 pm

Thank you so much everyone for your input and advice.

I am busy "tinkering" with my list, and taking on board your feedback.

I have removed the "extra merino" top, taken out the 3rd set of panties, removed the mini towel, removed the storm matches.

I've switched out the Exped camp slippers (150 g) for hotel style slippers (50g). (Just $1.52 on Aliexpress incuding postage! And should achieve the ability to air out feet, comfort, something on sole to get to toilet or hut and back to tent at night)

I've ordered a long-handled titanium spork. (Ironically heavier than my former plastic short spork, but I agree better functionally.)

The pot suggestion - I looked previously at a 750 Toaks titanium pot for 110 grams, but then I'd also want a cup for coffee while I eat my porridge (so for example an S2S Collapsible X Mug at 60 grams). Whereas existing pot set is 210 and has both pot, and a lid which doubles as a cup. 170 vs 210 grams and the cost for that weight saving at about $60, so hence I hadn't made that switch.

I'm testing my fuel consumption, so will see if I can get away with small fuel canister. (Doing pre-soaking of porridge overnight, cold lunches of mountain bread with salami/hard cheese, nutella and banana chips, tuna sachet etc; and dinners sticking to pre-soak or quick-cook things like couscous or angel hair pasta. I'm not doing things like Continental pasta sides as take too much time burning fuel to cook.)

I think dropping spare batteries for headlamp is sensible too. Done.

I've added proposed bread bags for rubbish.

Re medication, when I wrote "tab" I meant like the whole foil sheet - as in 8 tablets / 10 tablets / 12 tablets that come on the sheet. Sorry for causing confusion. The weights were accurate to the whole sheet of each type of medication.

So all useful tips, and I'm tinkering away in background on it all.

Big thank you!
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby Zapruda » Wed 11 Jul, 2018 7:41 am

emma_melbourne wrote:Thank you so much everyone for your input and advice.

I am busy "tinkering" with my list, and taking on board your feedback.

I have removed the "extra merino" top, taken out the 3rd set of panties, removed the mini towel, removed the storm matches.

I've switched out the Exped camp slippers (150 g) for hotel style slippers (50g). (Just $1.52 on Aliexpress incuding postage! And should achieve the ability to air out feet, comfort, something on sole to get to toilet or hut and back to tent at night)

I've ordered a long-handled titanium spork. (Ironically heavier than my former plastic short spork, but I agree better functionally.)

The pot suggestion - I looked previously at a 750 Toaks titanium pot for 110 grams, but then I'd also want a cup for coffee while I eat my porridge (so for example an S2S Collapsible X Mug at 60 grams). Whereas existing pot set is 210 and has both pot, and a lid which doubles as a cup. 170 vs 210 grams and the cost for that weight saving at about $60, so hence I hadn't made that switch.

I'm testing my fuel consumption, so will see if I can get away with small fuel canister. (Doing pre-soaking of porridge overnight, cold lunches of mountain bread with salami/hard cheese, nutella and banana chips, tuna sachet etc; and dinners sticking to pre-soak or quick-cook things like couscous or angel hair pasta. I'm not doing things like Continental pasta sides as take too much time burning fuel to cook.)

I think dropping spare batteries for headlamp is sensible too. Done.

I've added proposed bread bags for rubbish.

Re medication, when I wrote "tab" I meant like the whole foil sheet - as in 8 tablets / 10 tablets / 12 tablets that come on the sheet. Sorry for causing confusion. The weights were accurate to the whole sheet of each type of medication.

So all useful tips, and I'm tinkering away in background on it all.

Big thank you!


Good on you, Emma. Its great to see someone take on advice and actually apply it. Bringing less stuff isn't just about dropping weight, it can be really liberating bringing less gear.

Please keep us up to date with your trip planning and future adventures.
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Re: Advice on footwear, gloves & tent (mainly for Overland)

Postby dagsands » Mon 16 Jul, 2018 8:05 am

Hi Emma,

thanks for sharing your lighterpack list. I'm currently looking at changing my cook system, and that little pot and lid set looks great, especially for the price. (https://www.snowys.com.au/furno-pot-set)
Means I can (albeit sadly) ditch my beloved willy smith's ceramic hot cider mug. It weighs 80gm, but I could never come at using a collapsible for my hot drinks. It just doesn't feel the same, but mainly I just know I would spill my drink all across my stuff in my tent. So the lid/flattish mug with handle option is a great idea... can, as you say, have dinner and a hot drink on the go at the same time.

One other comment, a previous poster said don't use a pack cover. Unless you have a cuben type exy waterproof pack (which I see you don't), I completely disagree with this. A wetted out pack will weigh a lot more than a pack cover. FWIW I use both a liner and a cover.

You've clearly done a lot of research. I think it's best you do what works for you and echo the suggestion to have some trial runs, although I understand the limitations on your time due to your wee one :)

Oh, and talking trial runs - you might want to do a comparison of your heavier stove with the BRS so you don't have failures out there. See, for example https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.co ... stove.html
A couple of dags and their pooch who live by the beach in their home named 'Dag Sands', of course.
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