The advantages of new lightweight gear.

[flyfisher]

Hi all, just another attenpt to find out more about the lightweight and lighterweight stuff that folks are using.
I'd love to see or hear of makes and models (and weights) of gear including sleeping bags, packs, cookers etc.
Perhaps more a factual type topic to avoid previous failings.
Don't hesitate to tell us what doesn't work as well.
Please let's know if you take different gear for different trips or is your pack weight fairly constant.
ff

[Lizzy]

While probably not UL I recently bought & took the Sierra Designs Lightning XT 1 on a solo trip to Tassie (Lake Cygnus WA's)
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/sierra-designs-lightning-xt-1-ultralight-tent.aspx?a=557486 this link gives a bit of a review
It is 48 ounces or about 1.3kg which is significantly lighter than my old Macpac Eclipse (about 2.2kg I think...)

My Review
lightweight (I know there are lighter but light for me)
Had a fair amount of hail & rain - the tent held up really well and everything stayed dry
Vestibule held my pack, boots, etc easily
Inside tent isn't huge but easily fits my full length neoair & can fit in bits & pieces like clothes (had most of them on anyway!) & food
Can sit up (I think I am 5'8")
Mesh interior- no condensation but obviously a bit cooler than a tent with material inner (pro's & con's depending on temperature)
Was camped in rairly protected areas- forest & tent platform at L. Cygnus but was gusty- held up no problems in these conditions
Set-up : you definitely want to try this one at home first but was simple & quick
Tent is freestanding
Must pitch inner first- but this can be done quickly & throw fly over
Can pitch inner alone for hot night/ stargazing
I was tempted to buy a tarptent but in the end decided I'd go the double wall (I know you can get double wall TT) & got a pretty good deal. Tent arrived within 2 weeks.
Overall: I really like the SD lightning- it was a good size & weight for me to travel solo, kept me dry
Cheers
Lizzy

[Lizzy]

On the same trip as above (Tassie November) I also took my Montbell UL Spiral Down Hugger 3http://www.moontrail.com/mont-bell-ul-spiral-down-hugger-3-reg.phpThis is the version with 800 fill down & weighs 544g for the 5'10" regular version & is rated by montbell as 30 degree F or -1 degree C

My Review:
This bag is incredibly light & packs down very small
It has a 3/4 zip, a DWR finish to the material (water beads up nicely), & the bag does strecth with the cut of the bag.
I must admit I was a bit cold on this trip- would love to know what the temperature was????? But it was hailing outside. I was sleeping on a neoair in the SD lightning tent (all mesh inner). Contributing to my coolness was that I got quite cool and spent alot of time in the tent because of the hail etc so didn't really go to bed warm.
I have used the bag previously in NSW & NZ and it was fine- I probably underestimated the coolness of the weather & should have taken a heavier weight bag: so I am not blaming the bag rather my idea of the temperatures.
Overall: The bag is what it is- a very light weight bag. It is missing features of some warmer bags such as neck baffle but these things come at a size/weight penalty. I think the bag is great for 3 season NSW use & probably needs to be boosted with something for winter (for me anyway!). Would be interested to hear what others think

Cheers
Lizzy

[flyfisher]

Thanks for the info Lizzy, I'm looking to replace my sleeping bag at some stage as mine is a Fairydown Scorpion rated -10c but at nearly 1600gms does give me somewhere to cut weight.
ff

[corvus]

ff if you are looking to save weight with your sleeping bag but still want one for most cooler conditions (rated -5%) with a water resistant outer a Warmth Unlimited Tundra Pure weighs in at 960gm and as a bonus the down is ethically sourced from flock Geese (ie collected from nests not dead birds) check out this site.
http://www.tundrasleepingbags.com/Ethics.asp
I have used this bag in winter and summer in Tasmania for a couple of years now and cannot fault it .
c

[photohiker]

the down is ethically sourced from flock Geese (ie collected from nests not dead birds)

I've no doubt its a good bag, but the point about ethical sourcing is lost on me.

I'm having trouble feeling guilty about the down in my WM bag. Whats the deal? Are they killing birds for down, or harvesting down from birds killed for the table?

[corvus]

the down is ethically sourced from flock Geese (ie collected from nests not dead birds)

I've no doubt its a good bag, but the point about ethical sourcing is lost on me.

I'm having trouble feeling guilty about the down in my WM bag. Whats the deal? Are they killing birds for down, or harvesting down from birds killed for the table?

G'day Michael,
The main point of this down is that it comes from free range Adult birds that are not bred for the Table and therefore the down is fully mature,when I last had a Goose ( also free range) for the table at Christmas I ordered it before it was hatched it was cooked and eaten when it was just a teen and really succulent ,old geese need to be cooked like Native Hens with a rock etc.
Do they Harvest down from live birds ? yes and they live in cages but no need to feel bad about it as I have a jacket which is no doubt full of young down from caged birds I just thought the "ethical superior down" component would have been attractive to some
c

[Nuts]

I (unintentionally) left my sleeping mat behind on my last weeklong walk. It was uncomfortable for the first night or two but i worked with the other gear and I got used to not having a mat.
It saved the 4/500grams i left behind The brand was Thermarest, the model Neoair!

[Nuts]

Good one Gerry for taking note of the ethical part. Without such diligence who knows, our down could be plucked slowly and tortuously, one by one from infant gooslings by sadistic bullies! Who Knows?

[Tony]

I left my sleeping mat behind on my last weeklong walk. It was uncomfortable for the first night or two but i worked with the other gear and I got used to not having a mat.
It saved 4/500grams The brand was Thermarest, the model Neoair!

I have tried the Prolite XS 230g with mixed success, usually spend a bit of the night sleeping off the mat, with a prolite small 370g I spend a bit more of the night on the mat, I used a neoair regular 410g for the first time 3 weeks ago, very nice and I did not fall off once.

Tony

[Nuts]

Yer, I think (especially with the inflatables) the full length is the go (especially for anyone with loose knees). I was thinking of an ol timer i worked with who used nothing but a well chosen divet under the tent. In later years he used a small square of foam for his hips (who could blame him, still guiding in his 70's, both hips were second generation titanium..)

[flyfisher]

Perhaps I should try one of those, my Downmat7 isn't far short of a kilo.
In it's favour,it's the warmest and most comfortable mat I've used and the bones are getting old.(ancient even)
ff

[Nuts]

Do you mean the thermarest or the well chosen divet? (The divet is ultralight )
The neoair are a similar nights sleep to the expeds FF, not as warm, needs help below zero but ok for summer, perhaps a thin foam mat under would still only pull up at 5/600g's for winter. You may have to watch where you put it a little more though they do use a thinner material.

[corvus]

Good one Gerry for taking note of the ethical part. Without such diligence who knows, our down could be plucked slowly and tortuously, one by one from infant gooslings by sadistic bullies! Who Knows?

Good thing about "ethical down" is that it comes from a renewable source rather than a once only
c

[Nuts]

Ive bought a few things with ethics in mind G. Its a shame the companies arent more prominent. I guess there is a higher cost for 'ethical' gear that most are still not willing to pay?

[Lizzy]

I also use a neoair regular length- which I love! It is 374g with an elastic band I do not find it noisy as I have read elsewhere & I do not find it a problem to blow up. I got the reg length one as I though for that weight & size I may as well be very comfortable and due to its thickness didn't want the drop off. I turn about a bit & like to sleep on my side- it is nice to not touch the ground on my poor hips that always get sore from the waistbelt of my pack.
Perhaps for my last trip it was not quite warm enough & I should have added a CCF mat as well.....will try that next time its going to get chilly.
Cheers
Lizzy

[Lizzy]

While I'm busy reviewing (you can tell I am holidays ) I also bought the Montane Quattro waterproof jacket.
http://www.braemarmountainsports.com/products.php?cat=64&prod=831It is
'Entrant® DT with Super DWR:
- 66g/m², 2.5 layer 15 denier 100% Nylon with internal \'mesh\' print
- Waterproof to a minimum of 10,000mm hydrostatic head and with a minimum MVTR of 8,000g/m²/24hrs '
weighing in at a massive 240g.
Now I must say this was a massive leap for me as I have used the tried & tester MD Stratus for years which was pretty bombproof & naturally much heavier.
The Montane jacket is much shorter & fitted but luckily due to some advice (thanks Jellybean) I sized up and can fit a jacket underneath. In Tassie it worked great- kept me dry & comfortable... actually I just about wore it the whole of my walk & combined with overpants was perfect. Yes it is lightweight & I would be concerned about bushbashing but saying that the track I was on I was brushing through plent of bush & didn't have a problem so for trackwalking I am a happy camper having such a small lightweight piece of gear. Another advantage is that on walks where it is unlikely to rain you have such a small/ lightweight piece of kit to carry.
Cheers
Lizzy

[Jellybean]

I'm a massive convert to lightweight walking, the lighter weight makes the walking so much more enjoyable and gives you the freedom to go places you might not be able to safely go with a heavier pack. I do however carefully research each new piece of gear (and in particular look for real user reviews in the conditions I'll be walking in rather than rely on marketing hype). For any one trip, I'm also careful to select gear that is suitable for the conditions and terrain that may be experienced. (It really irritates me to hear suggestions that lightweight gear is dangerous - it's only potentially dangerous if used inappropriately, but so is any gear. Similarly, you often hear how expensive it is to go lightweight. I've found that to be untrue. None of the gear listed below is any more expensive than heavier weight gear and, in many cases, it is actually cheaper).

My current key pieces of gear are:
- GoLite Jam 2010 pack - approx. 900g (slightly less)
- WM Summerlite sleeping bag – 550g
- Tarp Tent Sublite Sil (including some extra stakes/guys) – 700g
- Neo Air sleeping mat (full length) – 410g
- Gossamer Gear Thinlight foam sheet – 55g (extra insulation and puncture protection for the Neo – I fold it up and put in the back of my pack as extra cushioning)
- Gossamer Gear Polycro ground sheet - 43g
Total approx. 2.66kg
(N.B. The Sublite Sil needs trekking poles - my current pair are Leki Super Makalus - they've served me well but are over 500g - am looking at getting a pair of these http://gossamergear.com/trekking/lt4-tr ... poles.html (214g per pair) as a replacement, they seem to have great reviews).

With the right combination of clothing (varied according to the conditions) and possibly my bivvy (TiGoat Ptarmigan - 198g) when it's colder, I think I can use that combination for 3 seasons in NSW. Would change to a warmer bag (or buy and use some WM down pants and my down jacket with the Summerlite) and a slightly larger pack (GoLite Pinnacle - 926g) for NSW winter.

In terms of stoves - I use an MSR Pocket Rocket (85g) plus cannister.

In terms of rain gear - when walking on track or through light scrub I use the gear that Lizzy mentioned (Montane Quattro DT jacket and Atomic DT pants - total 515g). When bombproof rainwear is required I use a Macpac Prophet (3 layer XCR goretex) and One Planet (3 layer goretex) pants (heavy - total 1.36kg); am currently looking at buying a Montane Venture Event Jacket and pants (total approx 800g) as a replacement for all but the worst conditions (where the lighter weight Montane jacket and pants wouldn't be suitable).

In terms of footwear, I've got a range of options (Zamberlan full leather boots, Asolo synthetic/suede boots, Keen Voyageur hiking shoes, and Asics Gel Trabucco trail runners and believe that Santa may be bringing me some of these for Christmas - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/au/inov-8-ladie ... 268-shoes/ (I've been wanting to try these for ages). I'm leaning more and more towards the lighter end of the footwear range (when appropriate). Having tried them I believe the saying that 1kg on your feet is like another 5kg on your back is true. Had some Salomon trail runners before - very comfortable and stable but not particularly durable (tread or inside fabric of shoe). The Asics have great tread and seem to be more durable but are quite high (like normal running shoes) and therefore less stable where you're traversing rocky, uneven ground. I'm hoping that the Inov8s will have the ideal combination of features - lightweight, comfortable, stable, and durable.

Cheers,

JB

[Nuts]

Sounds like some well thought out gear JB.
Ive been thinking about lighter poles and boots but kinda decided I dont mind the extra work out ; )
Just a mention that the venture trousers (and jacket) are not that tear proof. Nice n light though. Also in blokes sizes montane are small, perhaps youvwe worked this out already but i had to size up.

[Kevin]

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[Kevin]

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[Tony]

Great post Jellybean,

I'm also careful to select gear that is suitable for the conditions and terrain that may be experienced. (It really irritates me to hear suggestions that lightweight gear is dangerous - it's only potentially dangerous if used inappropriately, but so is any gear.

Very well put, there are a lot of myths about LW gear, often started by people who have never tried LW gear and most probably never even seen it, I think the myths are perpetuated by people trying to justify their, usually very expensive traditional gear purchases.

Similarly, you often hear how expensive it is to go lightweight. I've found that to be untrue. None of the gear listed below is any more expensive than heavier weight gear and, in many cases, it is actually cheaper).

Again well put. A couple of years ago I started a thread comparing traditional gear prices with LW gear prices, I went around to all of the local gear shops told them that I am new to bushwalking and I want to do the OT in November and what gear do they advise me to get, I wrote down the names, prices and weights, I then chose some LW gear that I considered suitable for the OT and compared all the prices and weights, traditional gear was across the whole board was much more expensive, unfortunately I am unable to find the thread anymore, I will redo it over the break.

Tony

[Jellybean]

Sounds like some well thought out gear JB.
Ive been thinking about lighter poles and boots but kinda decided I dont mind the extra work out ; )
Just a mention that the venture trousers (and jacket) are not that tear proof. Nice n light though. Also in blokes sizes montane are small, perhaps youvwe worked this out already but i had to size up.

Thanks Nuts. Yeah, I may or may not go with the lighter poles (currently unavailable), my current ones work well and don't feel that heavy (not sure they'd make a massive difference) but lighter shoes have made a noticable difference!

Thanks for the heads up re the tearing of the Venture trousers - how do you do that? (I'd still use my bombproof gear for thicker scrub/scrambling over abrasive rock surfaces). Yep, agreed re the Montane sizing, I also had to go up a size with my Quattro/Atomic DT combo. I would also consider the Macpac Traverse Event jacket and Resolution Event pants if the weight of the pants were reasonable (the Prophet pants are 700+ g!). There's no weight for the Resolution pants (unless I'm blind) on the website and, once again, an email request to Macpac for that info has gone unanswered (Cam!?). While the current Macpac rainwear prices are great and I like Macpac gear, the difficulty in getting any info about gear (I find it almost impossible to get to a store) is off-putting. Ultralight Outdoor Gear UK (who I buy alot of stuff from, including Montane gear) are always really responsive (and frequently get my business as a result).

[Jellybean]

Dear Jellybean,

I really like your gear list. Can you give a price/weight comparison between lightweight and heavier weight gear. I am sure many budget stretched bushwalkers would be interested, including me.

Cheers,

KC

Hi Kevin,

I probably was talking higher end gear (didn't really think about it), but having said that I think that the prices below (ones that I can remember) may demonstrate that buying quality/high end light weight gear doesn't have to be expensive. Note: all except three of the items listed below - Macpac jacket and One Planet pants and Zamberlan boots - were bought on-line from the US or UK over the last couple of years (varying exchange rates), as often as possible during sales. There are some bargains to be had if you keep your eyes peeled. I think it is a false economy (not to mention dangerous) to buy cheap, poor quality gear. If I can't afford something I wait until I can.

Costs that I can recall:
- GoLite Jam 2010 pack - approx. 900g (slightly less) - around $100 - $120AUD (my Macpac Ascent pack - great pack but 2.2kg - lightweight by canvas pack stds - cost $300 on sale)
- WM Summerlite sleeping bag – 550g - approx. $330 - 340AUD (from Moontrail - points provided cheaper shipping)
- Tarptent Sublite Sil (including some extra stakes/guys) – 700g - $215AUD (extra guys and stakes a few dollars extra)
- Neo Air sleeping mat (full length) – 410g - about $170AUD (from Moontrail; with points I received a whole bunch of other small things for $0)
- Gossamer Gear Thinlight foam sheet – 55g (extra insulation and puncture protection for the Neo – I fold it up and put in the back of my pack as extra cushioning) - about $12AUD
- Gossamer Gear Polycro ground sheet - 43g - about $10USD for 2 groundsheets (GG postage is not cheap - best to buy everything at once from them or share postage with someone else) (Note: doesn't seem to be suitable or use in sub-zero/approaching sub-zero conditions according to Ninjapuppet's recent report from his NZ trip; I'd also be careful to check the ground for sharp sticks/rocks before putting it down)
Total approx. 2.66kg
(N.B. The Sublite Sil needs trekking poles - my current pair are Leki Super Makalus - they've served me well but are over 500g - am looking at getting a pair of these http://gossamergear.com/trekking/lt4-tr ... poles.html (214g per pair)($165AUD) as a replacement, they seem to have great reviews).

With the right combination of clothing (varied according to the conditions) and possibly my bivvy (TiGoat Ptarmigan - 198g - $170AUD) when it's colder, I think I can use that combination for 3 seasons in NSW. Would change to a warmer bag (or buy and use some WM down pants and my down jacket with the Summerlite) and a slightly larger pack (GoLite Pinnacle - 926g - $100 - 110 AUD on sale) for NSW winter.

In terms of stoves - I use an MSR Pocket Rocket (85g) plus cannister.- $35AUD

In terms of rain gear - when walking on track or through light scrub I use the gear that Lizzy mentioned (Montane Quattro DT jacket and Atomic DT pants - total 515g). When bombproof rainwear is required I use a Macpac Prophet (3 layer XCR goretex) and One Planet (3 layer goretex) pants (heavy - total 1.36kg); am currently looking at buying a Montane Venture Event Jacket and pants (total approx 800g) as a replacement for all but the worst conditions (where the lighter weight Montane jacket and pants wouldn't be suitable).

In terms of footwear, I've got a range of options (Zamberlan full leather boots, Asolo synthetic/suede boots, Keen Voyageur hiking shoes, and Asics Gel Trabucco trail runners and believe that Santa may be bringing me some of these for Christmas - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/au/inov-8-ladie ... 268-shoes/ (I've been wanting to try these for ages) - $105AUD landed in Oz. I'm leaning more and more towards the lighter end of the footwear range (when appropriate). Having tried them I believe the saying that 1kg on your feet is like another 5kg on your back is true. Had some Salomon trail runners before - very comfortable and stable but not particularly durable (tread or inside fabric of shoe). The Asics have great tread and seem to be more durable but are quite high (like normal running shoes) and therefore less stable where you're traversing rocky, uneven ground. I'm hoping that the Inov8s will have the ideal combination of features - lightweight, comfortable, stable, and durable.

Cheers,
JB

[Jellybean]

Great post Jellybean,

I'm also careful to select gear that is suitable for the conditions and terrain that may be experienced. (It really irritates me to hear suggestions that lightweight gear is dangerous - it's only potentially dangerous if used inappropriately, but so is any gear.

Very well put, there are a lot of myths about LW gear, often started by people who have never tried LW gear and most probably never even seen it, I think the myths are perpetuated by people trying to justify their, usually very expensive traditional gear purchases.

Similarly, you often hear how expensive it is to go lightweight. I've found that to be untrue. None of the gear listed below is any more expensive than heavier weight gear and, in many cases, it is actually cheaper).

Again well put. A couple of years ago I started a thread comparing traditional gear prices with LW gear prices, I went around to all of the local gear shops told them that I am new to bushwalking and I want to do the OT in November and what gear do they advise me to get, I wrote down the names, prices and weights, I then chose some LW gear that I considered suitable for the OT and compared all the prices and weights, traditional gear was across the whole board was much more expensive, unfortunately I am unable to find the thread anymore, I will redo it over the break.

Tony

Thanks Tony. Will be interesting to see your comparison!

Cheers,
JB

[walkinTas]

Discussion from here has been deleted. You can repost and take up the conversation from here.

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