First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

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First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Tue 25 Nov, 2008 7:24 am

Hi, Myself and my husband are about to do the Routeburn and Hollyford tracks. (9 days with a re-fuel stop at Gunn's Camp in the middle). We leave in just over two weeks.

I have done an overnight hike before, and we have been doing lots of research on the matter, but I would love some advice about the food we are taking. I feel like we are taking too much weight and not enough calories. I know I am adding extra weight by insisting on taking fresh vegetables where possible (For me they are a nesessity). I guess I fall into the 'I like gourmet food' category.

How many calories per day should we be taking? (I have planned for 2200-2600 per day per person)
What weight should we be aiming for? (My planning has us carrying 1.5-2kg per day combined)


An example of our menu (for two people) for this not wanting to download the file:
Breakfast
Cereal - Kellogs style (2 cups) 120g 416cal
Milk 45g 225cal
Naan bread (3 pieces) 141g 450cal
Eggs (3 eggs) 159g 240cal
Bacon (3 pieces) 60g 240cal

Lunch
Mountain Bread (4 pieces) 116g 280cal
Cheese (2 thick slices) 60g 240cal
Salmon or Tuna 100g 160cal
Chutney 15g 20cal
Tomato (1 medium) 150g 30cal
Avocado (1/2 medium) 90g 130cal

Dinner
Dinner 2 - Tuna Casserole 306g 700cal
Fresh Vegetables (2 cups) 230g 100cal
Dessert 4 - Custard & Cake 294g 844cal

Snack
Trail Mix - Fruit 100g 460cal
Trail Mix - Sweet 27g 210cal
Biscuits (2 per day per person) 40g 360cal

Total weight: 2.14Kg ---- Too much?
Attachments
HikeFood.zip
An excel document with our food list.
(14.36 KiB) Downloaded 574 times
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Son of a Beach » Tue 25 Nov, 2008 8:21 am

I also like to take good food in preference to light-weight food when it's suitable to do so. However, I generally make light-weight a much higher priority when doing longer walks (say, more than two nights). The longer the walk, the more I try to cut the weight down.

Nine days is long enough to be wanting to cut down your food weight as much as possible, without cutting down on nutritional value. This means that you'd have to compromise on fresh food, and perhaps on the overall taste of some of your meals.

As much as I like to have eggs and bacon for breakfast, and fresh veges for dinner on short walks, I'd never consider taking these on a long walk. For a nine day walk, I might consider taking them for just one day, to have a special meal or two in the middle of the walk.

If you're carrying 2 kg of food per day for two people, that comes to 9kg each total (getting less each day, of course). 9kg is a lot to add to an already full pack (some people carry 9kg total, including food).

You might want to consider compromising on the freshness and tastiness of your food to cut the weight down. But this doesn't mean you have to eat boring packet meals every night (although some packets meals are OK - might be worth taking a couple for some easy meals). Home dried meals can be very good. It requires a lot of preparation work in the days (or weeks) leading up to a long walk, but is well worth the trouble if you really want top quality meals on your walks. It takes some practice to figure out what works well, but there's some good tips in this forum.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby frank_in_oz » Tue 25 Nov, 2008 9:03 am

Agree with Nik who is his usual very polite and considerate self!!

Keep your weight as light as possible.

My daughter dries a lot of vegetables and rehydrates them for curries etc. She wrote a blog post about it here http://frankinoz.blogspot.com/2008/11/v ... ideas.html and http://frankinoz.blogspot.com/2007/09/m ... arian.html which might help you.

Tasadam also wrote a great post on this forum (which he also gave permission for me to put on our blog) about his wifes 9 day menu: http://frankinoz.blogspot.com/2007/12/f ... iking.html

We are just finishing off our food for 7 nights in Tassie next week.
basically we have:
2 fresh at the start - fresh meat, deb spuds and peas with gravy.....
tuna casserole
dried spag bol
dried savoury mince
dried chicken curry and rice
packaged pasta and smoked chicken breast.

We HAVE dried some vegetables and will rehydrate and add then to the pasta and chicken breast dish.

Hope this helps
Frank
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Tue 25 Nov, 2008 10:57 am

Thanks for the advice.

You are right, I do need to lose the fresh vegetables. I was also under the impression that we could not take food with us into NZ. However on researching a little, I think we are allowed to bring in 10kg of food for personal consumption, so it might be worth looking at dehydrating our own food.

I do want to look at doing my own dehydrating, but I really would rather wait until next year when I have time to play around with it.

We have actually been taste testing a variety of foods (backcountry meals were our dinner last night!). I ate the meal, and it tasted nice at first, but by the end I was forcing it into my mouth.

I will say one thing I am really liking..is the versatility of naan roti bread (lightly fried in a dry pan)..It is a good accompaniment to a dinner, tastes great wrapped around a banana, or even with maple syrup as a breakfast (ie a pancake).
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Tue 25 Nov, 2008 3:38 pm

Okay, I lost the fresh vegetables :cry: and our total food weight for the 9 days is now 12.12kg. I am happy with that, expecially considering that the heavier meals are eaten in the first three days.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Son of a Beach » Wed 26 Nov, 2008 7:09 am

Kainas wrote:Okay, I lost the fresh vegetables :cry: and our total food weight for the 9 days is now 12.12kg. I am happy with that, expecially considering that the heavier meals are eaten in the first three days.


That sounds like a good total to me. Less than 700g per day per person is good, I think.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby frank_in_oz » Wed 26 Nov, 2008 8:03 am

Kainas wrote:Okay, I lost the fresh vegetables :cry: and our total food weight for the 9 days is now 12.12kg. I am happy with that, expecially considering that the heavier meals are eaten in the first three days.


Good stuff, you will be thanking this Forum after a couple of days of a lighter pack!

What keeps me going at the end is the thought of a great meal, some chips and a couple of reds - always a great treat (and sore head the next day)
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Chris » Wed 26 Nov, 2008 11:31 am

Kainas wrote:We have actually been taste testing a variety of foods (backcountry meals were our dinner last night!). I ate the meal, and it tasted nice at first, but by the end I was forcing it into my mouth.


Just one comment Kainas; I've found that there's a huge difference in the acceptability and enjoyment of food between home and during a strenuous walk. It's amazing how wonderful something I wouldn't eat in a pink fit at home tastes when I've been suitably tired and in wonderful surroundings. :)

Hope you have a wonderful walk!
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Wed 26 Nov, 2008 1:24 pm

Chris wrote:Just one comment Kainas; I've found that there's a huge difference in the acceptability and enjoyment of food between home and during a strenuous walk. It's amazing how wonderful something I wouldn't eat in a pink fit at home tastes when I've been suitably tired and in wonderful surroundings. :)


Chris,

My limited experience testifies to this. (The only overnight walk I have done was accompanying an OE professional with a class of high school students). Both myself and the students (all first time hikers) laughed as we ate trail mix at rest breaks...the same conversation kept being repeated amongst the students:
"Wow this is so yummy"
"I know, but I wouldn't eat this at home"
"I know, If there was a bowl of this on the bench I would say 'ooh gross'"
(followed by silence as they ate)
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Wed 26 Nov, 2008 1:27 pm

Can I further the question a little.

I have done lots of research, but really found nothing terribly conclusive. How much calories do you take on you hikes? I am aiming for 2200-2600 (64kg female) and 2500-2900 (88kg male). We will be carrying 18-22kg of pack weight (including clothese we are wearing and boots).

The walking per day ranges from 3hours to 7 hours.

Both of us are using this as a chance to get a bit fitter (and lose a bit of weight - though we are not trying to starve ourselves or anything stupid).
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby tas-man » Thu 27 Nov, 2008 4:04 pm

If you haven't already, have a read through this topic which may give you some additional ideas and options. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1159 . The link I posted to an article by the Australian Nutrition Foundation gives a good overview of the balance to aim for between the various types of food sources and how best to spread your intake over the day to meet your energy requirements.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Thu 27 Nov, 2008 5:31 pm

tas-man wrote:If you haven't already, have a read through this topic which may give you some additional ideas and options. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1159 . The link I posted to an article by the Australian Nutrition Foundation gives a good overview of the balance to aim for between the various types of food sources and how best to spread your intake over the day to meet your energy requirements.


Thanks for the link. I had been reading that topic, but that link (on first glance) appeared odd...on closer inspection I found the pdf...good reading thankyou.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby corvus » Thu 27 Nov, 2008 9:03 pm

Don't deny yourselves of a Red on your walk purchase one of the new 1lt "Briques" red or white and have a nice little sip with your main evening meal on your walk :)
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Thu 27 Nov, 2008 9:29 pm

I rarely drink :cry: ... but maybe bushwalking is a good time to start!
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby corvus » Thu 27 Nov, 2008 10:22 pm

Just noticed you want to lose weight ,I used to be overweight I thought, b4 an extended walk and return exactly the same weight .
Answer converted fat to muscles,dont ask I am just a layman thats what the expert told me :)

I use Freeze Dried add boiling water for all of my main meals now some much better than others IMHO (dont buy Fish Pie) and the will save you a considerable amount of weight ,get the single serves so you can eat out of the bag with no washing up :)
Last edited by corvus on Fri 28 Nov, 2008 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Fri 28 Nov, 2008 6:11 am

corvus wrote:I used to be overweight I thought, b4 an extended walk and return exactly the same weight .
Answer converted fat to muscles,dont ask I am just a layman thats what the expert told me :)


Thanks, this is very true. By weight I should really mean 'belt size' or 'fat loss'. The best thing about losing weight via physical activities rather then starving yourself...all that beautiful lean muscle. I can tell you right now how much of my body is made up of fat, and how much of lean muscle (God bless modern technology)...I look forward to the 'scales being tipped' when I get home. I love brushing my hair and noticing my biceps tense.....Is this how many feel? :shock: Anyhow too much Warcraft not enough exercise has taken that away from me these last few years...time to get it back.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby corvus » Sat 29 Nov, 2008 10:28 pm

For those who wish to bulk out their Back Country Cuisine freeze dried eat out the bag meals you can with a spoonful or two of BCC Instant Rice or Instant Mixed Veggies.
No need then to cry underfed :)
Just picked up my re supply at a Members sale for $7.13 per meal cant say that's expensive,you just need to be a canny shopper plan ahead and learn how to save money and weight.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby sirius Tas » Sun 30 Nov, 2008 2:04 pm

Hi Kainas,
With regards to your anticipated calorie consumption...I've taken the following out of the book "The 8 week Cholesterol Cure' by Robert E. Kowalski......which I've had for some time and has some really interesting stuff.
For a moderately active man to maintain their weight requires 125 kj or 29.875 calories per kg of body weight, female requires 100kj or 23.9 calories/kg of body weight. Becoming involved with a really strenuous exercise program(read bush walking here) may require an additional 5kj or 1.2 calories per kg of body weight. The difference between male and female is due to a slower metabolism rate.
Doing the maths...the 64kg Female should require 1606 calories, 88kg Male requires 2734 calories per day to maintain body weight under those conditions.
Hence in your above figures the female would put on weight while the male would stay about the same.
Hope this is of some use and I haven't confused you at all.
Cheers...sirius
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Sun 30 Nov, 2008 3:44 pm

Thanks Sirius,

Didn't confuse me at all. The math was appreciated, it gives me something to work off.

How does pack weight affect calorie considerations? Does 'body weight' become body weight + pack?
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Sun 30 Nov, 2008 3:52 pm

sirius Tas wrote:Becoming involved with a really strenuous exercise program(read bush walking here) may require an additional 5kj or 1.2 calories per kg of body weight.


This part of the calculation seems wrong, The difference between a moderate and strenuous day would be only 100 calories (roughly). Most other guides I see tell me to add over 300 (330 for f, 430 for m).

At any rate, it is a good guide, very helpful (to a math brain like me.).
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby sirius Tas » Sun 30 Nov, 2008 5:32 pm

Kainas wrote:
sirius Tas wrote:Becoming involved with a really strenuous exercise program(read bush walking here) may require an additional 5kj or 1.2 calories per kg of body weight.


This part of the calculation seems wrong, The difference between a moderate and strenuous day would be only 100 calories (roughly). Most other guides I see tell me to add over 300 (330 for f, 430 for m)..


Yep...I'd have to agree...but thought I'd better say it as the author had it written. I guess it depends on how strenuous exercise rates with bush walking....and carrying a pack. There's no doubt that bush walking over quite a few days would rate at the upper end of the scale...so I'd be inclined to use the above figures as a base then add the extra 330 & 430 calories respectively.
You'll have to do a before and after comparison and let us know the result....as its a very interesting area without much meaningful info.

Hope all goes well with your trip.
Cheers
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Sun 30 Nov, 2008 9:03 pm

sirius Tas wrote:You'll have to do a before and after comparison and let us know the result....as its a very interesting area without much meaningful info.

Hope all goes well with your trip.
Cheers


Thanks, and yes. Given all the ultra light discussions and books, I would have thought hikers would want to know to the calorie exactly what they need. I had expected to find some good 'plug in the numbers' type calculators on the web - pack size, distance, ascent, weight = x calories.
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby corvus » Mon 01 Dec, 2008 5:21 pm

For a great weight saving calorie intake you may be interested to know that "Glucodin" tablets contain 24 kilojoules each therefore one 50g pkt equals 197.5 calories.
I munch them all the time on a B/walk to keep up my energy levels without the need for much else between meals other than small amounts my "scroggin" which is unsalted peanuts ,sultanas,dark chocolate covered coffee beans,wasabi peas and jelly beans plus the occasional treat of my home made beef jerky (for an overnighter one of the commercial pkts should suit you).
Hope this helps :)
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Kainas » Mon 01 Dec, 2008 6:04 pm

corvus wrote:For a great weight saving calorie intake you may be interested to know that "Glucodin" tablets contain 24 kilojoules each therefore one 50g pkt equals 197.5 calories.
)


You have just bought back memories....of being an 18yo cotton chipping in 35degree heat. Lots of us where all just finished school, and we all used to throw those down to keep us going
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Re: First time overnight hike..and it is a big one

Postby Jai Maluga » Sun 21 Dec, 2008 9:13 pm

My limited experience testifies to this. (The only overnight walk I have done was accompanying an OE professional with a class of high school students). Both myself and the students (all first time hikers) laughed as we ate trail mix at rest breaks...the same conversation kept being repeated amongst the students:
"Wow this is so yummy"
"I know, but I wouldn't eat this at home"
"I know, If there was a bowl of this on the bench I would say 'ooh gross'"
(followed by silence as they ate)



Very true found myself eating vegimite from the jar near the end of a long hike. Was the Austraila day long weekend so quite patriotic on reflection
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