Emergency Help Devices - EPIRB/PLB, Sat Phone, SPOT, etc [sp

[photohiker]

I think the recommendation is that they should be sent in for service after activation?

The Spot track progress service is $49 or something like that. Worth its weight for family and friends back home IMO. Now that they have gotten used to the idea, I suspect they'd demand I carry the Spot even if I took a PLB.

The breadcrumb trail from a GPS is far better than what is available from Spot. The 10 minutes 'track progress' gap is too far between points - at a good walking pace that would put the points at anything up to a km apart while a normal GPS tracklog difference between points is metres (and usually configurable).

As Tofu said: "It depends on what you want"

[Tofu_Imprint]

On the Bushwalkers Search and Rescue website they quote AMSA as saying (in regards to 121.5 frequency PLBs)

What's more, even activating a beacon on this system will be illegal from 1 February 2010. As mentioned above, all beacons on this system should be disposed of through your nearest Battery World shop.

Pardon my ignorance but does this mean a unit such as the GME MT410G which uses both 121.5 and 406mhz, make using this unit illegal? I'm assuming no because everyone still recommends this unit...?

Regards.

[tsangpo]

The Victorian S&R site has that exact model as the display picture for the 406mHz beacon so you should be fairly safe:
http://bsar.org/epirb

[rsser]

The various SPOT devices rely on the Globalstar sat constellation for comms. Until recently this had some gaps in Aus coverage over the course of the day, and this has applied for some years. Last month Globalstar was sposed to have launched the remaining 2nd gen sats to provide full-time coverage.

The gap prob. accounts for the SPOT design where it keeps sending msgs for a period and any redundant ones are filtered out.

[rsser]

An update on Spot Messenger costs:

Got one shipped from the US for AUD 150. Promotional prices there have hit USD 100.

Annual sub is USD 115; that covers SOS signals, unlimited emails to contacts as far as I can see, and 200 SMSs to contacts. Continuous tracking option is another USD 50 p.a. or so.

And re tech stuff, it can tell you that you've got a GPS fix; it can't tell you whether your msgs have gone through.

[photohiker]

And re tech stuff, it can tell you that you've got a GPS fix; it can't tell you whether your msgs have gone through.

Spot2 blinks the message light red if it was unable to transmit. As far as I know, this is verification that the Spot is talking to the communication satellites. This is a Spot2 additional function, the original Spot did not have this capability. No idea if this correlates with any missing messages at the other end of the chain.

[rsser]

Hope you're right. If the red blink means it's talked to the sats, that must mean it can receive sat comms. I wasn't aware that it had this capability.

[photohiker]

Hope you're right. If the red blink means it's talked to the sats, that must mean it can receive sat comms. I wasn't aware that it had this capability.

I had a look in the manual, and it says that a red light means that the message was NOT sent. It doesn't say anything about confirmation from the satellites so perhaps I'm wrong about that. No idea how it would know that the message was not sent though. Confusing...

[rsser]

Sorry, I was unclear.

The device can't receive AFAIK so can't confirm that a msg was got at the other end.

[photohiker]

Sorry, I was unclear.

The device can't receive AFAIK so can't confirm that a msg was got at the other end.

Yep. It knows if a message is sent, but not if it was received.

[rsser]

In researching my move from an Accusat to a Spot Messenger II it became clear that sat phones are getting much cheaper (to buy and to use) and some are now built with GPS included.

In Aus we now have 4 sat phone constellations/providers.

I was tempted by a pre-paid Inmarsat as I also do outback vehicle trips and the capability to talk two-way was attractive. This model does not have a GPS but that's just a matter of time. Certainly the purchase cost along with pre-paid credits brought it within the realm of the original market price of the Accusat with GPS.

And I understand that Telstra has funded a project to look at including a PLB in a sat phone.

[photohiker]

We have a SatPhone, but shied away from the prepaid minutes. I think it depends on how many minutes you are going to use. If the phone gets regular use then it might be worthwhile, but the expiry date on the prepaid minutes makes them pretty expensive if you don't get to use them. Instead, we just use one of the Telstra NextG post-paid sims out of one of our other phones, and they work just fine. Price per minute takes them out of the long call home category, but in an emergency a dollar a minute or so aint too bad.

You can pick up Iridium Motorola 9555 Satphones from US servicemen returning from the middle east on ebay for way less than new Telstra pricing.

I think this subject was covered earlier in this thread. Somewhere, I made a short call home from the satphone and posted the resulting bill...

[rsser]

Yeah, you have to take care with the usage costs.

But it's now a much more competitive market than it was.

I found one Inmarsat dealer that offered pre-paid minutes good for two years.

And a new satphone at about $750.

Seem to recall that the Iridium sat constellation was low orbit? If so, not so good for those of us in the mountains. May be wrong though.

[photohiker]

Seem to recall that the Iridium sat constellation was low orbit? If so, not so good for those of us in the mountains. May be wrong though.

My understanding:

Iridium has 66 LEO satellites resulting in 'path diversity' - if you have a good view of the sky, you will be in contact with more than one Iridium satellite.

Inmarsat has 3 or 4 geostationary satellites, so if you can't see one, you see none.

If you are in the mountains, it probably comes down to where your view of the sky lies. On the face of it, I suspect the iridium is going to get a signal more often in difficult terrain because of their orbiting hardware rather than the Inmarsat geo-stationary hardware. They also are the only service to offer north and south pole coverage.

Buy one, and let us know how it goes

[rsser]

Sth pole is on the bucket list ;-} ... but don't expect to be there on my own. If so, I'll be suing the guide company!

Meantime it'll be suck Spot and see over the coming winter. Will be out on the ranges and plains for longer than ever, soloing, and sending msgs back.

Being a born sceptic, will take apparatus to hunker down for a few days as well.

A Spot Messenger can be set up to send an SMS saying 'deliver large Napoletana inc. anchovies, cost no object' but the chopper still won't find you in cloud.

[Tofu_Imprint]

Well, ended up buying the mt410g. dont know if i'm able to list the seller on this site will check rules later.
hopefully never have to use it, but good to know its there in the event of an emergency.

[adventures]

My two bobs worth re above recent posts.
First...SPOT works on the Globalstar system of satellites...hence has severe limitations for use in southern latitudes....check out thread by tasadam...
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=415&p=13184#p12557

Globalstar have been having satellite difficulties...also if you read the above thread you'll find the reason some people are having trouble with satellite reception with these units...mainly as these satellite are inclined to the vetical at quite a low angle.
Hence..if you're stuck in a steep gully or similar...you may not get the distress signal out.

Forget about any other type of mobile phone...they simply aren't worth relying on...as same as above. May be fine if you have an accident on top of Cradle Mt...or similar...but little use else where.

The cheapest and most reliable option is the PLB....that being the GME MT410G......these guys have been building EPIRBS and PLB's for many many years and are extremely reliable. If you want to know the difference with a non GPS PLB....read the thread above from Linda Berryman. I personally would only buy this unit...but my Sat phone IS reliable...so no need at this stage.

Everyone should be aware that PLB's are available for hire from Service Tasmania at a very reasonable charge of $40 per week.

While you may have battery concerns with normal electronic gear...I can assure you the batteries in PLB's are state of the art and guaranteed for several years.

While PLB's are expensive... is there any REAL alternative....WHAT IS YOUR LIFE WORTH???....or the angst it may be causing your family while you're away.

Re Iridium Sat phones....if contemplating purchase...you may be able to pick up a Motorola handset from Ebay at considerably cheaper prices.

I'd also steer completely away from the Optus Thuraya...until you actually know what the satellite configurations are....otherwise you may be like all the others with limited ability.

My thoughts only....sT.

... I am a great fan of the ACR ResQLink+ I had a GME and had to use it last month in a real emergency, my friends had the ACR. The ACR was detected by AMSA nearly 90 minutes before my GME beacon. The ACR is also cheaper - especially if you shop around for some of the discount codes doing the rounds with the bushwalking clubs.

Happy to tell the story of the emergency if people are interested, but being new to this forum am not sure how to find the right thread for that ...

[rsser]

To be fair to Globalstar, the info in the quoted link above is way out of date.

They now have all their 2nd gen sats in the sky and that should have dealt with the daily blank spots. Line above horizon still needs to be considered though.

...

I've gone for an Inmarsat satphone as duplex comms have become more important in my travels. About $750 purchase price, and approx. 100 mins of call time for $100 with a 2 year expiry. Calling to it however is a killer (thanks Telstra) at about $22 a minute; but a free text msg can be sent to it for a call-back.

[Strider]

Happy to tell the story of the emergency if people are interested, but being new to this forum am not sure how to find the right thread for that ...

Just create a new topic mate

[ninjapuppet]

Just thought i'd give abit of further info on the McMurdo Fastfind 211 beacon:

- i bought the 211 from another forum member here who got it in NZ. Turns out that mine was coded for NZ and I cant register it in Australia. Australian coded becons UIN must start with a BE or a 3E. mine starts with a 400E6
- Can still be activated from Australia but but its got to go through the NZ rescue centre and may add another few minutes as they call back and forth to coordinate the rescue. Thinking in hindsight, I could have gotten the US 210 version for real dirt cheap and register it in the US. but then you're taking a risk in time delay for the rescue to get coordinated back to Australia/ NZ. Most of my remote adventures are going to be in NZ anyway so its not such a bad idea for me.
- weighs 152g so its abit lighter than the GME, but its much smaller and more packable. battery life is 5 years vs the GME 7 years.
- even tho the battery stated to last 5 years, The expiriy date was more like 6 years away from date of purchase so its not too bad compared to the 7 years of the GME.
- Dont buy the 210 from ebay otherwise it'll cost you another $110 to reprogram it and post it back and forth to Perth.

- To activate, its more steps than the GME. you have to pull off the cap (and consequently BREAK OFF the cap) flick open the antennae and then press the on button. The GME's antena has a built in switch so as soon as you flick open the antenae, it is activated.
- so for anyone thinking of testing the fastfind 211 beacon, dont break the cap off, or it'll cost you $27.50 to order it from AMI sales in perth.
- my mate has the ACR resqlink and it is actually 20 grams lighter. i'd worry about the dirt on my boots before i'd worry about 20 grams but the resqlink is actually a more powerful model and quite abit flatter so I would recommend that model instead if you can spare the cash and looking for a new PLB. Cheapest I have found for the ACR resqlink was $320 in melbourne + $15 postage

[adventures]

Me too, the current model ACR was found to bet detected by AMSA up to 90 minutes faster than the McMurdo and GME PLB is a recent incident I was involved in ... probably a consequence of the 66-channel GPS and 5 Watt power output - all better than the McMurdo and the GMEs.

... whats most important to me though is they claim a 30-40 hour battery life - much more than the minimum 24 hrs!

As to price - I can't locate the $320 price, but another member found a club code that gives 10% off the ACR ResQlink at adventure safety .com.au bringing it down to $332

[photohiker]

From the Australian Magazine today, Article 'In the line of fire' regarding the WA Adventure race disaster where several competitors were badly burned by bushfire and lucky to escape death.

(John Storey, local Kununurra mango farmer/bushman with extensive local knowledge who trains Gurkha troops from Singapore in leadership and navigation):
"City people don't understand. Even satellite technology is not foolproof. Overhangs in the landscape, trees, a gorge, even a smoke cloud will block connection" he says. No matter how thoroughly people are trained to use satellite phones "they can still let you down in the field. Ninety eight percent of the time they're OK but the one time you really need them they might not work"

Lets remember that.

[Ent]

Having seen first hand a satellite needed and had it not work for reasons that I do not know all I can say is relaying on one emergency device is not good, when you need it to work. Spot 3 has a few challenges as well given that it needs a bluetooth smartphone phone connected to send messages. But at least it can from the unit itself send the come and get me message. Still have not found the holy grail of what works best in difficult circumstances but everything suggest that a PLB is the best but it does have the limitation of only being able to send one message, HELP!, when at times a less melodramatic message might be in order.

Cheers

[MrWalker]

everything suggest that a PLB is the best but it does have the limitation of only being able to send one message, HELP!, when at times a less melodramatic message might be in order.

I just can't understand why those PLBs can't send two signals.
The usual one for "HELP, send the helicopter now!"
and another one for "I'm having problems, this is where I am, but there is no need to panic yet."

This second signal would be ideal to send when you are overdue but still making headway, so you friends back home know they do not need to send a search party.
Or when you have been temporarily misplaced so you are not on the track you planned but do (now) know where you are.

[north-north-west]

From the Australian Magazine today, Article 'In the line of fire' regarding the WA Adventure race disaster where several competitors were badly burned by bushfire and lucky to escape death.

(John Storey, local Kununurra mango farmer/bushman with extensive local knowledge who trains Gurkha troops from Singapore in leadership and navigation):
"City people don't understand. Even satellite technology is not foolproof. Overhangs in the landscape, trees, a gorge, even a smoke cloud will block connection" he says. No matter how thoroughly people are trained to use satellite phones "they can still let you down in the field. Ninety eight percent of the time they're OK but the one time you really need them they might not work"

Lets remember that.

Yeah, I thought of this thread when I was reading that, too. Although I've never heard of smoke cutting out a sat link.

[Gusto]

Yeah, I thought of this thread when I was reading that, too. Although I've never heard of smoke cutting out a sat link.

Makes sense, cloud cover can affect it.

[flatfoot]

After further investigating the performance of the Spot Messenger in an emergency situation, I've come to the conclusion that the trade-offs suggest I look at getting an EPIRB.

The spot messager logs show that initial 'SOS' message took about 20 minutes. Admittedly, it wasn't in an ideal location (small forest clearing at the base of a 100-200m cliff face). Reasoning for this is my failed call to 000 (poor phone coverage) was at 10:51am. I activated the Spot immediately afterwards. First 'SOS' record in the spot website shows as 11:12am (say 20 minutes allowing for time to switch devices).

The below article is a worthwhile read:

http://www.energyindustryphotos.com/a_guide_to_personal_locator_beac.htm

From the article:

The signal EPIRB's use is transmitted on 406 Mhz, a lower frequency than the SPOT Satellite Messenger and other SPOT products. This enables the signal to penetrate cloud cover better. Also, true 406 Mhz EPIRB's use a full 5 watts of power, compared to only .4 watts used by SPOT products. This higher wattage, combined with a lower frequency, means that 406 EPIRB's can penetrate heavy cloud cover, tree cover, or perform better in marginal areas such as alongside cliffs. This means that for life and death situations, you'll be better served by a real EPIRB. The trade off in emergency functionality of an EPIRB vs. the message capability of the SPOT is something you must be aware of.

I can't find any similarly in-depth reviews.

NB: spot operates at 1610-1620MHz.

I'll keep the spot since the non-emergency 'OK', custom message and tracking functions are useful. Some redundancy is also useful. That additional information can also be useful for a rescue situation. I may eventually upgrade that unit.

PLBers - what ones do you have or have used? Are there any brands other than GME to look at? (after reading this topic, the ACR ResQLink looks like a good unit)

I'm also interested in situations where PLBs have been activated in tree-cover or adjacent to cliff-lines (for work-related reasons I've got a good general understanding of radio propagation / attenuation so am aware of the issues, well as much as a software-boffin can understand - I'm just interested in real-world examples of PLBs being activated in typical bushwalking situations).

[LandSailor]

Flatfoot...dont forget to consider something like the Delorme Inreach.
It needs a bluetooth smartphone for messaging but for basic remote communication (including emergency beacon) its pretty cost-effective.
It uses the Iridium sat network so has good coverage.

[Ent]

Hi Flatfoot

For what is worth I came to the same conclusion but we are lucky in the group that there is a Spot 3 so we have the best of both worlds. Spot 3 is great for armchair walkers but be prepared to cope some flake if the owner of the Spot does not turn it on from home office. Not sure if I am a fan of the bluetooth link from phone to an emergency device. If some are honest they would admit to stuffing this link up. But then a Spot does not need a phone to send the dramatic come and get me now message.

When I looked at PLBs the GME 410 with GPS was the leader but I did see a much smaller unit at Mountain Design. Check if it has the same specs and battery life. I believe that the standards on PLBs are very high so yet to read of poor quality ones.

Cheers

[flatfoot]

For what is worth I came to the same conclusion but we are lucky in the group that there is a Spot 3 so we have the best of both worlds. Spot 3 is great for armchair walkers but be prepared to cope some flake if the owner of the Spot does not turn it on from home office. Not sure if I am a fan of the bluetooth link from phone to an emergency device. If some are honest they would admit to stuffing this link up. But then a Spot does not need a phone to send the dramatic come and get me now message.

At least the Spot 3 does have an 'SOS' function on the unit. It would be better if it still had all the buttons that the Spot 2 has. It would be interesting if a teardown comparison was done of the Spot 3 and Spot 2. The Spot 3 may actually cost less to manufacture because it has fewer buttons.

I have forgotten to setup the sharing before, but that's ok if you are using the 'OK' functions at the end of each day.

The spot website is slow. I really wish they would setup the iPhone app so that it can also configure device settings/intentions for Spot 2 devices as well.