iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 19 May, 2015 10:29 pm

Good references there Keithy. I note that iFixIt take down only mentioned the cellular antenna and that a smartphone such as an iPhone has more than one antenna built in. Not sure if that 'cellular antenna' is also used by the GPS. Can't find any info on Google on the relative performance of the different antennae designs. But as you also suggested, GPS performance is more than just the antenna, one that relates to both the antenna and the particular GPS module. Newer chips are getting better all the time. This is making me wanting to do a GPS home test b/n my Oregon 650 and iPhone 6...
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby keithy » Wed 20 May, 2015 12:00 am

GPSGuided wrote:I note that iFixIt take down only mentioned the cellular antenna and that a smartphone such as an iPhone has more than one antenna built in. Not sure if that 'cellular antenna' is also used by the GPS.


It's the same antenna used for the GPS - It's a combined antenna in the iPhone 6's case (the replacement part is this one http://portableparts.com.au/iphone-6-pl ... -flex.html). They no longer use a separate GPS chipset, but use a Qualcomm WFR1620 chip which combines the cellular reception & GPS reception in one chip http://www.datasheetbank.com/datasheet/ ... R1620.html. This chip incidentally is used on other smartphones as well, like a few Samsungs.

The iPhone 3 had a small ceramic patch antenna, and the iPhone 4 had a combined wifi and GPS antenna and a separate antenna for cellular signals as it was running a separate Broadcom GPS chipset (BCM4750). But I think from the iPhone 4s onwards, they started using a Qualcomm combined cellular/GPS chip.

I mentioned in this previous thread viewtopic.php?f=21&t=18850#p256798. I have only tested my Garmins against an iPhone 4. I don't have a 5 or 6 to test it against.

GPSGuided wrote:This is making me wanting to do a GPS home test b/n my Oregon 650 and iPhone 6...

That would be cool if you have the time. Have a look at the page I linked to earlier http://gpserror.azurewebsites.net/. If you collect some GPS logs, you can upload it to the guy, and his tool will calculate the GPS accuracy. His blog and methodology is described here http://blog.oplopanax.ca/2012/11/calcul ... -accuracy/

When I get a chance, I plan to do this on my Etrex, my Oregon, and a few other GPS devices I have.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 20 May, 2015 5:46 am

Cool! Will make use of that tool when I do.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 20 May, 2015 11:09 am

An update... As it turned out, this stationary GPS accuracy test as described in the links above is harder than it looked to implement on the iPhone, all because the app I have (MotionX-GPS) and others that I have looked at all applied filtering to the raw data. As a result, a 10min track log on an open balcony generated just 1 data point, irrespective of whether I selected cycling or hiking mode.

The log on the Garmin Oregon had to be generated by opting for data recording at fixed 5s interval. A 10mins log has been uploaded but it would appear that others have recorded into the hour or more for their upload. I am not sure if that has contributed to the decent result achieved. I'll have to try again and leave it out for an hour or more and see.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby keithy » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:09 pm

GPSGuided wrote:all because the app I have (MotionX-GPS) and others that I have looked at all applied filtering to the raw data. As a result, a 10min track log on an open balcony generated just 1 data point, irrespective of whether I selected cycling or hiking mode.


For MotionX-GPS, I think you can turn off the filter. Under Settings/Accuracy Filter. Also under Track Recorder, you want to turn the Auto Pause setting off (which stops recording when it thinks you have stopped). Failing that, there are a few other iphone apps that can log/export GPX files like:
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/trckr-g ... 21899?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/mytrack ... 97908?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/gps-hik ... 10494?mt=8

I don't have an iPhone anymore, so I can't test it out unfortunately.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby Suz » Fri 22 May, 2015 11:17 am

Thanks heaps for all the info Keithy. It is good to see in a factual way, the difference between dedicated GPS and phone GPS. I have now received my 6 plus and downloaded a few GPS apps - currently running a test on MotionX to see how long the battery lasts with it running non-stop.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby warnesy » Fri 22 May, 2015 1:18 pm

You can't run it non stop when you are out bush. The phone keeps searching for signal and battery degrades really fast. As far as I'm aware you can't turn cellular off on the iPhone but keep GPS running. I only use it to get quick location info rather than always on.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 22 May, 2015 1:37 pm

warnesy wrote:You can't run it non stop when you are out bush. The phone keeps searching for signal and battery degrades really fast. As far as I'm aware you can't turn cellular off on the iPhone but keep GPS running. I only use it to get quick location info rather than always on.

As a minimum, pull the SIM card and there'll be no mobile service. So yes, it can at least be done mechanically. Need to look a bit more into a SW solution.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby magoo » Fri 22 May, 2015 2:35 pm

Software update 8.3 has changed all of that. You can now use gps while in flight mode and it will not search for cell connection. This greatly improves battery life. I used my iPhone for a 3 hour walk on the weekend in flight mode and it tracked my position beautifully while only using about 14% of the battery life.

See:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... _id=102975
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iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 22 May, 2015 3:07 pm

Great Magoo! I presume the 'Location Service' switch controls the GPS circuit.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby magoo » Fri 22 May, 2015 3:39 pm

Yes, you can turn location services off if you want to disable gps for a particular app. But, depending on the app you're using you don't need to.

I use pdf maps and I notice that when I turn phone to sleep - short press of on / off button on top of phone - the gps does not get used. When I wake up the phone it will take a couple of seconds for my location to update.

Further discussion at this other link about this question:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... _id=103031
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iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby RonK » Fri 22 May, 2015 4:59 pm

Some outdated information posted here. GPS apps I'm using like Map.Me, Mapout, ViewRanger, Maps3D are able establish my location in Airplane mode.

Straight from the horses mouth. Posted by Apple Support May 9 2015..

When Airplane Mode is on, you'll see ✈️ in the status bar of your screen. In Airplane Mode, these wireless features are turned off:

Cellular (voice and data)
Wi-Fi
Bluetooth

If you have a device with iOS 8.2 or earlier, Airplane Mode will also turn off GPS.

I'm using iOS 8.3
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby andrewa » Fri 22 May, 2015 5:17 pm

I used my iphone 6 in NZ in January as GPS and camera/video over a week.

We were well out of phone range the entire time. I turned everything off except the GPS location bit (can't remember how...!), and only used the GPS bit half a dozen times a day to try to sort out where we were.

Used GAIA for GPS program. There were a few occasions where it was not able to locate our position, but we were fishing up through a deep gorge over 4 days, and our satellite phone was also unable to pick up sufficient satellite signal to log on, so I suspect it was more likely a satellite issue than a phone one. We have often had problems getting sat phone reception in NZ rivers in the upper West Coast of the Sth Is for some reason.

Phone was used extensively for photography and video. Most days would drain about 20-40% of battery life, but I probably took about half an hour of video each day. Managed to keep phone topped up with a 7000mAh battery pack for 6 days.

Also used phone and GAIA on Bogong a few weekends ago, and spent more time using the GPS aspect in poor visibility. Battery drain was significant - ~80% over the day, but I had not disabled everything else.

I think that if I was going to be needing a GPS, I'd rather use a dedicated GPS unit. I think that the 7000mAH battery pack was about 280g, whereas I recall that the etrex 20 with batteries was less than 200g. For occasional GPS usage, the iphone was fine. I look at the iphone largely as a replacement for a camera/video, and anything else is a bonus. Battery life is the main limitation. If you could get a really good battery pack with efficient solar charger......now going to try the Apollo something or other power pack 2, which allegedly has 10000mAH and a small solar panel.

Lastly, each of these power packs has cost me about $70-100 (2 x 7000mAH, and the Apollo), so I now have a fair investment in power packs, equivalent to the cost of the etrex 20!

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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby magoo » Fri 22 May, 2015 5:27 pm

it will be interesting to see what battery life people are able to get using gps apps and flight mode in 8.3.

Given that battery life is the main putative advantage of dedicated gps compared to iPhone , is iOS 8.3 another nail in the coffin for Garmins etc?
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 22 May, 2015 5:30 pm

Track log recording is the battery killer and I suspect it'll remain to be the issue.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby magoo » Fri 22 May, 2015 5:35 pm

RonK wrote:Some outdated information posted here. GPS apps I'm using like Map.Me, Mapout, ViewRanger, Maps3D are able establish my location in Airplane mode.
....


I think we're in furious agreement Ronk.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby magoo » Fri 22 May, 2015 5:37 pm

GPSGuided wrote:Track log recording is the battery killer and I suspect it'll remain to be the issue.


Yes, fair point.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby RonK » Fri 22 May, 2015 5:58 pm

andrewa wrote:I think that if I was going to be needing a GPS, I'd rather use a dedicated GPS unit. I think that the 7000mAH battery pack was about 280g, whereas I recall that the etrex 20 with batteries was less than 200g. For occasional GPS usage, the iphone was fine. I look at the iphone largely as a replacement for a camera/video, and anything else is a bonus. Battery life is the main limitation.

But for a proper analysis you need to include the weight of a camera/video and spare batteries and also spare batteries for the Etrex.
The way I see it, iPhone power consumption is very reasonable for such a multi-function device.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 22 May, 2015 6:54 pm

I agree that it's a close call in terms of weight penalty analysis, one that very much depends on the trip (duration, nature) as well as one's personal preference for additional gadgets. For a starter, I will always want my iPhone with me. As for an external battery pack, for a day trip or overnighter, my 100g 3000mAh Li battery pack would be more than sufficient to complement the iPhone. No need to assume the weight of a 7000mAh unit. Also need to remember that a USB Li-battery pack can similarly be used to charge a Garmin eTrex/Oregon too. So many variations.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby andrewa » Fri 22 May, 2015 7:47 pm

Hah! Has anyone ever chucked all their electrical stuff in one bag and weighed it? Camera, iPhone, GPS, spare batteries, cords, etc. It weighs a ton! That's why I hoped I could get an iPhone to do everything.
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iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 22 May, 2015 8:01 pm

Andrew, then you'll start to add a minipod for the iPhone, a selfie-stick, a few accessory clip-on lenses and an Apple Watch for remote iPhone camera control and other functions... And the combined weight is...
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GBW » Fri 22 May, 2015 8:12 pm

What's a minipod? Can it boil water?
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 22 May, 2015 8:44 pm

LOL! A mini tripod, to hold an iPhone for that BWA prize winning shot.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby keithy » Fri 22 May, 2015 10:01 pm

andrewa wrote:I used my iphone 6 in NZ in January as GPS and camera/video over a week.
...
Also used phone and GAIA on Bogong a few weekends ago, and spent more time using the GPS aspect in poor visibility. Battery drain was significant - ~80% over the day, but I had not disabled everything else.

I think that if I was going to be needing a GPS, I'd rather use a dedicated GPS unit. I think that the 7000mAH battery pack was about 280g, whereas I recall that the etrex 20 with batteries was less than 200g. For occasional GPS usage, the iphone was fine. I look at the iphone largely as a replacement for a camera/video, and anything else is a bonus. Battery life is the main limitation. If you could get a really good battery pack with efficient solar charger......now going to try the Apollo something or other power pack 2, which allegedly has 10000mAH and a small solar panel.



Even if you went the GPS and AA option, you have to factor into account the weight of your batteries and the AA charger/solar panel. I went to Nepal for a month a while back, and took 16 Eneloop AAs (too many by my calculations now). I had an AA USB charger that I used in conjunction with a Goal Zero Nomad 7 solar panel and an Instapark Mercury 10W solar panel.

Bear in mind that 4xAAs weigh around 120grams in one of my storage cases. And you have to take into account the weight of the AA charger as well. The power/weight ratio of Lithium battery packs vs NiMH AAs is greater. And for my more recent Garmin Oregon GPS unit, I can recharge AAs inside the device using a USB Lithium battery pack with a slight "hack".

But there are other options if you go down the actual GPS unit route for charging AAs, like this one that I've read good things aobut http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/ ... ryIDs=6578 It is good to Eneloop batteries, and folds down to about cargo pocket sized, but is only designed for AA battery charging - ie. no other USB outputs for charging other devices.

andrewa wrote:Lastly, each of these power packs has cost me about $70-100 (2 x 7000mAH, and the Apollo), so I now have a fair investment in power packs, equivalent to the cost of the etrex 20!

That is quite a bit, but not unusual. My older good quality 5000mAh packs cost me around $30-40 ea at the time. Luckily now there are some cheaper manufacturers like Xiaomi who are making some good quality units are cheaper prices - like their 16000mAh pack (outputs around 10-11000mAh at 5V) for around $40-$60 locally.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby Suz » Sat 23 May, 2015 8:36 am

Great on all the additional info again. My motionX test gave my iPhone about 13 hours running time non-stop with some other phone things happening too (calls/text/games) (not a very scientific test as it turned out - I will rerun it). Of course I don't have the screen up all the time - it goes to sleep after a few minutes as well which probably means it wasn't really using much battery then and was just running in the background. I will try leaving my screen 'on' with the app running all the time too, to see how many hours I get out of it before the battery dies. I will also try the test on 'airplane' mode and assess. It is never going to be like operating in the wild, maybe this test is pointless.

Let's say I had an Etrex 20 or whatever, how often do you have to change the batteries in them? That could help me work out the weight of AAs for a trip vs a Xiaomi 16000Ah.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Sat 23 May, 2015 9:07 am

A good set of AA like Eneloop can keep an eTrex/Oregon logging on a long day walk with regular position checks. If one regularly keeps the screen on then the run time will be dramatically reduced. Really depends on one's personal usage habits.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby DanShell » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:55 am

Suz wrote:Great on all the additional info again. My motionX test gave my iPhone about 13 hours running time non-stop with some other phone things happening too (calls/text/games) (not a very scientific test as it turned out - I will rerun it). Of course I don't have the screen up all the time - it goes to sleep after a few minutes as well which probably means it wasn't really using much battery then and was just running in the background. I will try leaving my screen 'on' with the app running all the time too, to see how many hours I get out of it before the battery dies. I will also try the test on 'airplane' mode and assess. It is never going to be like operating in the wild, maybe this test is pointless.

Let's say I had an Etrex 20 or whatever, how often do you have to change the batteries in them? That could help me work out the weight of AAs for a trip vs a Xiaomi 16000Ah.



Was you dropping a bread crumb trail all day while doing the test? Theres a difference between having an app running and actually having the app having to process and log what your doing all day. I can have my gps app on for days and it won't use a lot of battery power but when I go into the bush and use it for its intended purpose it kills the battery so fast I can almost see the % drop in front of my eyes ;)

I don't have an etrex but my Garmin 60csx uses a set (2xAA) every two days leaving it on all day and turning it off when I arrive at camp as a rough guide. However even if I go on a 2 day walk Ill still take a spare set just in case, well depends where Im walking but if there is a slight chance I may need to extend my compass and paper map skills I take extra batteries!
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby Strider » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:57 am

I think Garmin quotes around 25 hours battery life for the Etrex 20.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby GPSGuided » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:11 am

Like many electronic gadgets, quoted run time is based on a particular test protocol, one that may or may not match one's usage pattern.
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Re: iphone 6 plus functionality in the wild

Postby Suz » Sat 23 May, 2015 12:27 pm

Yeah I was logging a track but just in the office at work - so it probably wasn't making many way points. I'll try again today.

Changing batteries on the gps every 2 days doesn't sound like it'd save me that much weight. If Keithy is right and its 60gm for 2 AAs. And then the xiaomi 16000 - which weighs 350gm should charge my iPhone 5 times (assuming the 6 and 6 plus suck up the same amount of energy which perhaps they don't), then the weight per charge is 70gms. When you say your AAs last 2 days...how many hours of operation are we talking?
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