Advice sought which GPS to buy

[Lophophaps]

Consideration is being given to buying a GPS. Like Sgt Schultz I know nothing about such things. My navigation is good, and the GPS will be a backup. I cannot find a website that gives a table comparing features, and this is sought. Assistance would be valued. TIA.

[GBW]

I have a Garmin Etrex20...does what you'd expect...logs walks, shows tracks/waypoints, gives location, topo maps, reasonable battery life.

Doesn't have some features of the Etrex30 but is cheaper. Smallish screen makes maps a little hard to read.

Plenty more info here...
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21316

[ken333]

I bought a Magellan Explorist 510 about 18 months ago, because they were giving the Aus and NZ topo maps away for free with it, during a promo. The 510 has its pros and cons. The maps were disappointing, with 20m smoothed contours, and cliffs not shown. I dont know if they are any better than the OpenCycleMap contours. Also the maps show National Parks in dark green and its difficult to see the contours. It has a larger screen than the Etrexes, and its a touch screen instead of using a joystick. It uses a lot of battery power, and they recommend Lithium AA (non rechargeable). The spec says "up to 16 hours". It works with high quality NiMH batteries, but you will need a few sets for multiday walks. I use mostly OruxMaps on my Andriod smartphone for daywalks. (Copy of previous post: OruxMaps can access Qld QTopo, NSW SIX, and Tas LIST topographical maps (free). Areas can be selected and downloaded for off-line use. See posts in this forum. It can also use the OpenCycleMaps and OpenAndroMaps which has various files for Australian states and else where around the world, that can be downloaded for offline use. I think the contours are based on the newer 30 metre satellite data, not the older 90 metre data. OruxMaps also allows scanned paper maps to be calibrated and imported into it, using the Desktop windows program. OruxMaps is free, and does all the usual gps things, like Tracks, Waypoints and Routes. i dont think free online Vic topo maps are available for use by OruxMaps, (unless you take screenshots, stitch them together and calibrate them using OruxMaps Desktop). I think you can buy Vic GeoPDF maps for $2.00 each. I think Avenza app for Andriod can be used with these maps.)

[keithy]

For Garmin GPS handhelds, check out the Garmin website. You can compare different models with their comparison tool. Another one I like is Johnny Appleseed's GPS specs lists on their website - while not an automatic comparison tool, their Specs list makes it easier to compare handheld models against each other.

Generally handheld GPS units broadly come in these formats:

• Basic Non-mapping units - like the Garmin Etrex 10, Foretrex 401, the basic Magellan Explorist units like GC and 110. These might have a basic world basemap, but the devices usually don't support including more detailed topographical maps. You can use them to leave a breadcrumb trail and mark waypoints on the device, but these are best used in conjunction with paper maps.
• Mapping units with buttons - these like the Garmin Etrex 20/30/20x/30x, Garmin GPSMap series (64, 78s etc), Magellan Explorist 310, have mapping capabilities and utilise buttons for screen navigation and interaction. They usually don't come with preinstalled maps unless on special, although detailed topo maps are available. Interaction with buttons is slower than a touchscreen, however, these units will typically have a longer battery life than the equivalent touch screen models.
  
• Mapping units with touch screens - like the Garmin Oregon, Garmin Montana, Garmin Etrex touch series or Magellan Explorist 510, 610, 710. These will have the ability to include topographical maps and the advantage of screen navigation using the touch screen. The differences in the more advanced models include things like Electronic Compass (so the compass points north without you moving), Barometer (to more accurately adjust the GPS elevation), other sensors like ANT+ for connectivity, etc. The downside is that touchscreen models tend to have a poorer battery life.

While on battery life, note that there are some models that use in-built rechargeable lithium batteries. Mostly the Garmin and Magellan units will take AA batteries but there are some that come with built in lithium batteries (like the Holux devices http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/ ... jsp?pno=14) While these can last as long as rechargeble NiMH AAs or Lithium AAs, I've found that in the long term the batteries tend not to last as long (especially if not used for a while), and can be difficult to source replacements for when the lithium battery finally dies.

A valid option now is using a smartphone and using the various GPS apps out there. I have tested a few smartphones and found that they are pretty good for both offline GPS signal and location acquisition as well as GPS location accuracy. Note however that not all GPS chipsets and antennas are created equal. I recently bought a cheap Xiaomi travel phone to replace my aging Sony Xperia Android phone, and found that the GPS chipset is not as accurate as some of my other Android devices. The recorded paths took had more deviations when compared to my other Android phones and my Garmin GPS devices.

There have been a few threads here about the use of smartphones and GPS apps.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21010
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=22380
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20044

And I've mentioned some comparisons with some of the Garmin models here:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21316

[peregrinator]

Consideration is being given to buying a GPS. Like Sgt Schultz I know nothing about such things. My navigation is good, and the GPS will be a backup. I cannot find a website that gives a table comparing features, and this is sought. Assistance would be valued. TIA.

I have bugger all knowledge about this as you’ll see, but will pass on what I’ve found out so far in case any of it is vaguely helpful. I can’t answer your question about comparative evaluations as I didn’t look for any. That is because on advice in personal correspondence with an occasional contributor to this forum, I bought one of what he’s got. Namely, a Garmin Etrex 20x, but only fairly recently. (wEll, iT’s aCtually cAlled aN eTrex, bUt sUch gImmicky sPelling tUrns mE rIght oFf.) I figured that if it suited his needs (not complex) it would be fine for mine. GBW also sums up the Etrex nicely.

The prime purpose I had in mind for GPS usage was to follow waypoints established by others for walks on some potentially challenging routes. But like you, I also thought a GPS device could be a useful backup to my existing navigational skills. As it happens, I’ve done fewer walks in recent months than usual and in any case these challenging routes are not ones I’d do in winter. So my use of the GPS has thus far been negligible. I’ve taken it with me of course but turned it on very sporadically as it has been quite superfluous, only telling me what I already knew. This is a good way to maximise battery life!

But with free OSM maps loaded, it does work nicely as advertised and I can see how it may be useful in some situations. I’d be keen to know whether the Garmin or other paid maps are of better quality but not prepared to pay the dollars to find out. I’m impressed by the diminutive size and weight and have no significant trouble with the small screen (but zooming in and out can be slightly tiresome) or the “slow” responses mentioned by keithy. I do have trouble though viewing the screen in strong sunlight but I presume this might be inherent to any brand of GPS. Maybe that’s something to find out about if you can. Finally, given one already has a compass, the Etrex 30x seems like a waste of money, especially if you have a watch with a barometric altimeter (I have been using a Silva ADC for many years: http://silva.se/product/outdoor-accessories/adc-summit/).

What I did look for before buying was instructional information online about how to use the Etrex. I was concerned that I might have trouble learning how to use GPS technology as I’m competent and confident with compass and printed maps and have taken no interest at all in GPS until very recently. The Etrex manual on the Garmin website itemises concepts and tells you which buttons to push but has no practical advice on what to do in the field. So it might be good to check the sites of competitors and see what their information is like prior to making a decision. What would be even better I guess is that you know someone who has a GPS and knows how to use it. I suspect it’s easy to learn very quickly if you get some show-and-tell. There is of course much practical advice posted on the interweb and typically, quality varies and et cetera, et cetera. Actually, the link in GBW’s post is a nice example of posts that start out with one issue then go tangential.

Here’s one of the better introductory articles I have read: http://www.johnevans.id.au/Pages/GPS101.pdf
John Evans’ website also has excellent notes on routes in KNP which might interest you.

[GPSGuided]

The reason for having a HW compass is not so much as to use it as a compass but to provide the orientation when one looks at the map. Otherwise it'll require a track to know your direction. As an example, standing in thick fog and looking at the map on the GPS screen, which direction to take the first step? With HW compass, one would know straight away. So yes, the built-in compass is useful and desirable.

A good GPS screen would be one that works well under sunlight. AFAIK, current Garmin screens all work very well under the sun. As a matter of fact, they don't even need backlighting when used under direct sunlight.

[keithy]

I do have trouble though viewing the screen in strong sunlight but I presume this might be inherent to any brand of GPS. Maybe that’s something to find out about if you can. Finally, given one already has a compass, the Etrex 30x seems like a waste of money, especially if you have a watch with a barometric altimeter

I use a DIY matte screen protector for both my Etrex and my Oregon 600. I made up a template a while back for both of these and just buy cheap matte iPad sized screen protectors and use my template to cutout the smaller screen sizes. I find the matte screen protector makes it easier to read both screen in sunlight as it cuts down the screen reflection. Also saves the original plastic from getting scratched up so far.

I like the electronic compass and the barometric altimeter does help in adjusting the GPS elevation. I also use my eTrex and Oregon with ANT+ sensors which I find handy.

Not sure what the go is with Garmin prices locally though. They don't seem to have gone down at all since the last release of the newer etrex 20x/30x and etrex touch series. If anything I've noticed that they've been going up?

But either way Lophophaps if you decide on a Garmin model, I'm more than happy to impart stuff I've learnt. As peregrinator discovered, the manual is pretty basic, and there are options and ways to do things on the various models that aren't even covered in the Manuals.

[peregrinator]

Consideration is being given to buying a GPS. Like Sgt Schultz I know nothing about such things. My navigation is good, and the GPS will be a backup. I cannot find a website that gives a table comparing features, and this is sought. Assistance would be valued. TIA.

You can compare up to four devices here:

http://www.gpscity.com/compare

Problem with these sort of charts is of course – how does one know which features one will need when one is at the starting point of investigating products??? Still, might be better than nothing.

[scroggin]

I bought a *refurbished Oregon 600 for $380(AU) from the US and am happy with it. IT might be a risk but I figured they are going to make sure a *refurbished unit works.

*Edit: I think the term is refurbished not reconditioned

[GPSGuided]

Problem with these sort of charts is of course – how does one know which features one will need when one is at the starting point of investigating products??? Still, might be better than nothing.

Solutions,
1) Borrow from a friend and see what features one likes and needs, and be advised along the way.
2) Pay your way: Buy a basic older 2nd hand model and work one's way to familiarity. Then decide where to splurge.
3) Trust forum/web site: Go with popular models and trust the law of averages.

[Lophophaps]

Solutions,
1) Borrow from a friend and see what features one likes and needs, and be advised along the way.
2) Pay your way: Buy a basic older 2nd hand model and work one's way to familiarity. Then decide where to splurge.
3) Trust forum/web site: Go with popular models and trust the law of averages.

There are two main aspects - reliabilty (which includes battery life) and functionality. Most of the time the GPS will be off, so it's mainly a slow decline on the KVA or whater the unit is. Mmm, may not be KVA. All that's needed is a decent GPS map with a position. Once I have that I know which way to go, have map and compass. So point three seems best. Within reason I'll pay what is needed to get reliability and functionality, which means brand name from a BW shop. I often pay a bit more to get a lot more, especially for technology. For example, I have an entire computer system - box, keyboard, screen, mouse, OS, software, data - ready to go in 15 minutes if the system I'm using busts or is corrupted. There's four data backup drives, mostly offsite. This insurance cost a little, but I'm happy.

[GPSGuided]

For your description (very occasional modest use) and the very limited number of established GPS makers, it really would come down to choosing a Garmin eTrex (most compact with good reviews on this forum and elsewhere) or an app on a smartphone with good GPS facility. If you care for regular consult with constant track logging, then you are probably better off with a dedicated unit and not flatten your smartphone battery. For durability, a cheap waterproof bag would sort out the water issue for the smartphone, otherwise dedicated unit are obviously much more rugged for drops and falls.

[Lophophaps]

For your description (very occasional modest use) and the very limited number of established GPS makers, it really would come down to choosing a Garmin eTrex (most compact with good reviews on this forum and elsewhere) or an app on a smartphone with good GPS facility. If you care for regular consult with constant track logging, then you are probably better off with a dedicated unit and not flatten your smartphone battery. For durability, a cheap waterproof bag would sort out the water issue for the smartphone, otherwise dedicated unit are obviously much more rugged for drops and falls.

Thanks for that advice. Most sophisticated phones go flat within a few days, even on deep sleep. My cheap no-frills mobile phone will last for at least three weeks, ample for a 15 day excursion. I'll look more closely at the Garmin eTrex. I attempt not to drop anything with batteries or that needs power. Even the GPS is clipped into a pocket, cannot fall out.

[GPSGuided]

If you have a good late model smartphone and you are careful, there's no reason not to utilise it, obviously with a recharge battery for longer trips. Otherwise defaulting out to a Garmin unit is safe, just carry spare AA batteries or charger for them. What you'll need to decide then is which model of eTrex. Differentiation b/n mapping vs no mapping (just gives the coordinates in various formats with logging capabilities) and quality of the colour screen (late models have better screens than older but at a bit more cost). Look at some of the Youtube reviews or drop in to a store to compare. Johnny Appleseed tend to have various models on display and the staffs are knowledgeable on all things GPS.
https://www.ja-gps.com.au

[peregrinator]

Solutions,
1) Borrow from a friend and see what features one likes and needs, and be advised along the way.
2) Pay your way: Buy a basic older 2nd hand model and work one's way to familiarity. Then decide where to splurge.
3) Trust forum/web site: Go with popular models and trust the law of averages.

There are two main aspects - reliabilty (which includes battery life) and functionality. Most of the time the GPS will be off, so it's mainly a slow decline on the KVA or whater the unit is. Mmm, may not be KVA. All that's needed is a decent GPS map with a position. Once I have that I know which way to go, have map and compass. So point three seems best. Within reason I'll pay what is needed to get reliability and functionality, which means brand name from a BW shop . . .

Further reinforcing point number three is the invaluable information that keithy, GPSGuided and other knowledgable members are able to provide here about popular models. (Hmm, probably time I asked a few more questions.)

But on point number one, I'm happy to lend you my Garmin Etrex 20x. Unfortunately, you'd need to borrow it in short instalments in between periods when I'm using it myself. E.g., it will be doing nothing all next week. If you think that could work and your need to buy one is not urgent, let me know.

I'm dubious about point two, simply because you may need to spend a fair amount of time learning one setup, then have to spend as much time again learning a different one. But GPSGuided may be able to elaborate.

[GPSGuided]

#2 is for geeks who have too much time and treating it as a recreation and learning exercise. Thinking the number of GPS units I've bought along the way (car, handheld and smartphones), learning a bit more with each model and feature addition. Fortunately I have not wasted too much as it was more a mix of #2 and #3.

One thing to be said with #2 is that we now have the option to sell on the older unit on eBay or Gumtree, thereby recuperate some or all the cost.

[Lophophaps]

Thanks for the advice and offer. I'd rather undertake due diligence and rely on people who know more than me in this area. This has stood me in good stead for many years, way back when I was buying my first personal computer. I wanted a 20 MB hard drive but an IT mate said to get 40 MB: he was right. So I'm going to have a closer look at the Garmin range, see what can be obtained, best value for money, etc. I don't suppose these things code in Assembler. The GPS will be for a trip in a few months, plenty of time.

[GPSGuided]

Bottom line, GPS has come a very long way both in technology and interface design. You virtually can't go wrong by staying with recommended models. Personally I currently use an Oregon 6xx for the larger touch screen for easier operation. If you just want to get a coordinate, then mapping, screen size and colour may not be that critical. But you never know know how you may change in your navigation method after you started to own a GPS unit.

[keithy]

Lophophaps - if you want a hands on to test out, I am in the inner eastern burbs. You are welcome to have a crack with my eTrex 30 or Oregon 600.

[Lophophaps]

Keithy, thanks. I'm still assessing the tech specs, and attempting to work out the maps. I'd like the maps to be viable as is, no need to download. I'm sure I can download maps, but a simple "plug and play" GPS (so to speak) is easier. I'm also comparing Garmin's 20X and other units. Too many competing priorities at present.

[Lophophaps]

The Garmin series has been compared
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/catalog ... uct=518048
The prices are acceptable. The 10X seems not to have quite enough features, and the 30X has more than I need, I think. The 20X at about $270 from
http://www.ryda.com.au/garmin-etrex-20x-handheld-gps
may be the best option. Has a few extras. Or for $274 at
https://www.ja-gps.com.au/

Comments would be valued.

[tom_brennan]

If you're using a map and compass as your primary method of navigation, then an eTrex 20x is a good choice.

I have the eTrex 20, and it's been a good unit. I just leave it on in my pack to log the trip, and use it occasionally if I want to confirm a position. It does as much as I need it to.

[GBW]

It's irrelevant now LHH but I paid less than 200 for an ETrex20 from Anaconda 2 years ago. They had a special on them...probably clearing stock as they don't seem to sell them anymore. That price included a 10% voucher reduction and a membership discount...just got lucky I suppose. I'm surprised the prices haven't dropped for that unit with the new models that are available.

There's a lot of extra stuff that's not much use to me on the 20...I only use it for storing and logging tracks and waypoints and pinpointing my location on a map if necessary. It's pretty well a set and forget..turn it on at the start of the day...turn it off at the end...it's not like you are continually referring to it. I'd go for the 20 unless you really want the compass. I'd also recommend getting a holder of some type for it as well. I have one of these with a lanyard so I don't lose it...

etrex20 holder.jpg (10.27 KiB) Viewed 40614 times

Good luck.

[peregrinator]

You wrote earlier about maps, so I'm wondering what you propose to do about that now that you've decided on the unit.

. . . I'm still assessing the tech specs, and attempting to work out the maps. I'd like the maps to be viable as is, no need to download. I'm sure I can download maps, but a simple "plug and play" GPS (so to speak) is easier . . .

I have no idea on the quality of Garmin's map. How does one find out without paying? It seemed very expensive, so I thought I'd try some free options first. Downloading the OSM maps mentioned here was very easy and I think they will suit my requirements. Haven't done much field testing at all so far, but will be doing that in a week or so. Watercourses are not shown, which seems odd, but (a) I have paper maps for the areas I'm walking, and (b) contours obviously imply watercourses, so I'm not worried about this. There are other free maps referenced here, butI haven't had time to compare them.

Otherwise, I'm not all that further advanced in this business than you are, so I have substantial empathy!

[keithy]

I have previously bought from both Ryda and JohnnyAppleseed - both reputable mobs. I really wouldn't recommend the eTrex 10 unless you are really on a budget. With no mapping capabilities it is a very basic entry level device suited to be used in conjunction with paper maps.

With regard to prices - I mentioned in another thread I've not seen Garmin prices come down even with the release of newer models this year. If anything, they've gone up around 10-20% from my quick looks. Not sure if that was due to the falling dollar or Garmin's updated pricing. Someone asked me to look for an Oregon 600 a few months ago and I it was much more expensive than one I bought for someone else last year.

With regard to the maps that you mention, I have the V3 and V4 official Garmin topo maps, and have looked at the V5 light maps. Be aware that there seem to be some inaccuracies in the contours introduced in the V5 maps (that weren't present in the V3/4 that I have checked against) - see here for discussion viewtopic.php?f=63&t=22557. In VIC, the contours on the OSM can be a little rough and there are some omissions, but overall I've been quite happy with the OSM maps that andrew put contours and water courses on as well.

For a case, I like the use of the belt clip but also use the lanyard hole at the bottom, and have made my own DIY bumper case viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20683&p=276856 and I've also put on a DIY "button protector" to help prevent accidental joystick button presses.

I also use a DIY screen protector as mentioned above - you can see my rough cutout on the front of my eTrex 30.

[GPSGuided]

Does the 20 have barometric altimeter? If the price differential is small, getting the 30 may avoid future regrets, along with a nicer screen.

[GBW]

No altimeter on the 20 GPSGuided but if you have the Garmin topos it still gives a fair indication of where you're at...unless you're in a plane. Screen resolution is the same for Etrex20 and ETrex30. There is a good comparison chart of Etrex models here...
http://www.gpscentral.ca/products/garmi ... arison.htm

[Strider]

Does the 20 have barometric altimeter? If the price differential is small, getting the 30 may avoid future regrets, along with a nicer screen.

But the price differential is unfortunately not small. Both are now discontinued but the 30 didn't really offer much extra over the 20. I bought the 20 and am happy with it.

[Lophophaps]

As long as there's a six figure grid reference the altitude does not need to be supplied by the GPS. I can get the altitude from the map. In any case, would not the 20X have a map with contours?

[farefam]

As I don't have a smartphone (or plan to get one) I recently purchased a Garmin e-trex 20x when Rays outdoors were closing down in WA.

The map supplied free with the unit is virtually useless for bushwalking and did not have contours, so I purchased an older version of the Garmin Australia and NZ map (v4) which has 20m contours and shows most roads and hydrographic features but doesn't show vegetation type (the current version of the map has 10m contours but would have been much more expensive). Overall I like the v4 map I bought but was disappointed that it didn't show any of the bushwalking tracks in Tasmania. I searched this forum for answers and then downloaded for free the shonkymaps shonky topo without contours map which seems to have a few of the main bushwalking tracks on it such as Frenchmans, Overland, South Coast, Freycinet, Walls of Jerusalem, Western and Eastern Arthurs, Mt Anne circuit etc (though not the Jane River track, the Penguin to Cradle track, Lake Rhona or the smaller tracks such as Lake Meston etc).

I also downloaded for free the OSM-AU standard Tasmania and Western Australia maps. The OSM-AU standard Tasmania map seems to contain most of the major and minor Tasmanian bushwalking tracks. The main ones I noticed missing were the tracks leading to Southwest Cape, the Southern Ranges route beyond Pindars Peak and the Jane River track.

Altogether these maps supply most of the info I was after for minimal cost and it doesn't take long to download the maps to your PC, copy them into the GPS and then select the maps you want to display (you can have several maps on the GPS screen at once).

I also downloaded EasyGPS on my laptop so that I could use that program to enter Waypoints calculated from my maps and import them into my GPS for use in navigating on future off track trips. It took a while to enter the dozens of waypoints for one future trip, but it is far quicker than trying to do it on the e-trex 20x itself. You do need to make sure you are using the correct information to convert the TASMAP coords to GDA94! In my case a simple crosscheck is to check the waypoints on the GPS screen against the v4 map before I head out bush.

Overall, although the e-trex 20x screen is small compared to a smartphone, I do like the small size, low weight, toughness and good battery life of the e-trex 20x compared to the option of using a smartphone. It's just a shame that you can't seem to get the TASMAP's in a Garmin compatible format so that you can have a vegetation map. I've seen someone else use TASMAPs on their smartphone GPS and was impressed at how useful having a vegetation map can be when navigating off-track (e.g. can I dodge that horrendous scrub by navigating through some more open forest instead?).

I still intend to use my paper maps as my prime navigation method but it will be nice to have the GPS as an aid in misty conditions or as a safety backup should I take more wrong turns as I get older.

On the other hand if I already had a good smartphone and was prepared to risk damaging it out bush I would stump up the money for the electronic statewide 1:25,000 TASMAP and use that that instead if I was only walking in Tassie.