Radio Communications for Function and Fun

[gingeraman]

-- Yes I have a PLB --

I'm interested in radio options for hikers... E.g. I have two 5W full band UHF / VHF radios and am considering getting my amateur licence... I'm wondering if this sort of thing could be useful out of phone range - e.g. in emergency situations, getting 'late home' messages out to the wife, weather broadcasts and general interest in what sort of options are available..

For now due to tight budget I'll see what I can do with these starter radios e.g. amateur licence so I can use UHF repeaters or something. There's one at Mount Ginini here around Canberra but I believe you'd need a amateur licence to use it, it's below the UHF CB band...

http://www.crarc.ampr.org/index.php/Main/Services

Thanks...

[neilmny]

UHF and VHF comms are mostly line of sight (except for unusual atmospheric or terrain anomalies) and would only be more effective if a CB or amateur repeater was line of sight when a mobile phone tower wasn't. For emergencies when out of radio/phone range you need a PLB which signals your distress call to a satellite system.You can search a lot of discussion on PLB's here.

[gingeraman]

I have a PLB, the only issue is they are one way and you need to be in serious trouble to use it. I'm looking for middle ground options..

Yes I'm happy to use repeaters once suitably licenced and capable.

[neilmny]

The issue is whether or not a repeater is contactable from where ever you are. You can't rely on that without prior knowledge. In other words been there before.
If you study propagation etc. to get a ham license you will understand what I'm on about.
There are many things that make UHF and VHF unreliable particularly in mountainous terrain.
Just because you are on an amateur band does not guarantee communications.
The only benefits would be less crowding and generally speaking a lack of feral activity blocking any possibility of communicating.

CORRECTION DOES NOT GUARANTEE COMMS.
I should read my typing more carefully when posting.

[tastrax]

If you are looking for two way communication then its either a satphone, InReach or Iridium Go device depending on how geeky you are with equipment.

http://www.pivotel.com.au/pivotel_iridi ... phones.php
http://www.pivotel.com.au/pivotel_personal_trackers.php

and the latest inReach (now owned by Garmin)

https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/

[gingeraman]

thanks yeah I'll look at that one day or a Spot device or something. For time being I'm labouring under the initial stages of a crushing mortgage so I need to be resourceful. If I can achieve anything that's a bonus.. for example I think national parks sometimes monitor or broadcast on some bands? Maybe I can carry a high gain antennae for when I set up somewhere, and I do notice when I am on prominent hills I tend to get even perfect mobile reception so I'm ok with that.. I'd also be interested in radio reception mapping and contributing that back to the community if such an option exists. E.g. I try to record mobile reception with OpenSignal although my recordings seem to show on the map then randomly disappear so I have no idea.. But reception mapping would be a useful tool to have..

I can be pretty geeky, it's just how resourceful I need to be presently. I have to make do with cheap and / or existing / free equipment for now.

I've heard amateur satellites can be used as repeaters too... That's interesting.

[neilmny]

gingerman,
To make use of amateur bands your wife would have to be licensed as well. Amateur band equipment is expensive.
Look for a local amateur radio club and organise a visit. They will be able to fill you in on the details and give you some guidance.

[tastrax]

Maybe mesh grids will catch on at some stage and enough folks will be carrying the devices to make them useful.

https://www.gotenna.com/

[gingeraman]

That mesh looks like a great idea!

Either way my original question was about range and what people have found they can accomplish. Yes I'm aware about licencing, Spot, Satphones etc... I'm asking about UHF / VHF radio and how useful this can be in remote locations and around repeaters - what sort of range can be achieved on VHF and UHF even if between split groups. I dunno... Say one group goes to get firewood or in a convoy or whatever... those sorts of uses too...

[neilmny]

VHF and UHF radio is useful around repeaters provided someone is listening to the repeater.
The range question cannot be answered other than to say that line of site is effective and can be a good (long?) distance under perfect circumstances.
Line of site means there are no obstacles between the transmitter and the receiver.
Obstacles at UHF and a lesser extent VHF can be as simple as wet trees or rocks in the vicinity of the line of site particularly wet trees moving in the wind.
You are not talking about clever digital systems that compensate for all these things but an FM signal which is subject to various interferences just like a TV signal was before digital.

[gingeraman]

Fair enough, thanks... are there any public VHF bands or do I need to wait to get my amateur licence.. It'll be challenging to get everyone licenced including my wife especially.

I figure terrain will get in the way... Even so, I presume a good kilometre or so can be achieved at least under normal circumstances... Say the party splits up for whatever reason, or in a convoy...

[neilmny]

If you are talking about your own group within a short distance of one another but without any high intervening ridges, a couple of KM is readily achievable even with 2W hand held UHF CB's.
We regularly use UHF CB's when on family skiing trips to stay in touch across the Falls Creek or Hotham resorts. Ski resorts are fairly open though.

[tastrax]

Personally, UHF is good if the other person is in the 'near vicinity' - same worksite, farm, convoy etc up to a 2-5 kms (totally dependent on power of unit, terrain and aerial used). That's about as far as I would expect communication.
I never take a UHF on bushwalks.

If there is a good repeater network then the distance can be much greater - https://secure.tropinet.com/uhf-repeaters/

VHF I have used for work but that was part of a dedicated system with a massive repeater network (closed to the public). That covered 100's of kilometres in the right conditions.

PS - UHF you dont need any licence

[gingeraman]

thanks.. The Ginini repeater here is amateur only, so I will need a licence to legally use it. I just did a test and can see UHF will start dropping out after around 1-2kms with terrain. But that's good enough for most purposes. I'm sure it will go further from a high hilltop which I am rather fond of. I wonder if VHF would go even further then. Is VHF better outdoors for better range? I'm going to join the local amateur radio club and learn more too.

[neilmny]

In very simple terms the longer the wavelength the longer the range.
Each band has it's foibles though. Joining an amateur radio club is a great idea since you are so
keen to learn more. You should get a great deal of pleasure out of it.
It wiill most likely hook you like bushwalking does.

[andrewa]

I use those little cheap hand held things for fly fishing ( so someone can spot NZ trout from the other bank), and ski touring ( for the one that goes down a run first). Never worked out their range. Said to be up to a few km in good conditions.

A

[ribuck]

Since the title of this thread mentions "fun", I should mention the "Summits On The Air" challenge. Amateur Radio operators try to log as many summits as possible by communicating from them.

There is a list of Australian summits, and I was surprised to see that many "mainstream" bushwalking summits have yet to be worked. For example, Cloudmaker in Kanangra. If you are the first amateur to operate from one of these summits, you will be sure to have a "pile-up" of other hams wanting to work you.

I haven't done it myself, because carrying a rig goes against my preference for lightweight walking, but if you're carrying a radio anyway...

[neilmny]

The issue is whether or not a repeater is contactable from where ever you are. You can't rely on that without prior knowledge. In other words been there before.
If you study propagation etc. to get a ham license you will understand what I'm on about.
There are many things that make UHF and VHF unreliable particularly in mountainous terrain.
Just because you are on an amateur band does not guarantee communications.
The only benefits would be less crowding and generally speaking a lack of feral activity blocking any possibility of communicating.

CORRECTION DOES NOT GUARANTEE COMMS.
I should read my typing more carefully when posting.