A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

For all high tech electronic equipment including GPS, PLB, chargers, phones, computers, software. Discussion of simple electrical devices such as torches, belongs in the main 'Equipment' forum.

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby north-north-west » Thu 20 Aug, 2020 7:11 pm

tasadam wrote:The guys fly with night vision goggles. These magnify light by 6000 times.
This makes night rescue possible. When it's dark, a light source such as that of the backlight of a mobile phone, a cigarette lighter, a small fire, a head torch, whatever... All stand out as really bright hot spots on the night vision. So don't rely on the PLB, if you hear the chopper coming for you, start waving the head torch or the backlight of the mobile phone display, or whatever you have.


My ride out from near Eldon Bluff was in the dark. I was really cheesed off at missing the views, but one of the crew gave me his night vision goggles for the flight. Awesome things. I want a pair.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 13179
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby tastrax » Fri 21 Aug, 2020 9:29 am

:D :D Better save your $$$, but you will get free shipping!

https://www.nightvision.com.au/category ... n-goggles/

I was lucky enough to do the course in their use when I worked for Parks - amazing technology!
Cheers - Phil

OSM Mapper
User avatar
tastrax
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Fri 28 Mar, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: What3words - epic.constable.downplayed
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: RETIRED! - Parks and Wildlife Service
Region: Tasmania

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby north-north-west » Fri 21 Aug, 2020 10:05 am

Typical you can't even get the cheap ones ($1,250) any more. But $3,800 for colour night vision . . . only 500g for the dual setup and no more need for headlamps. Think of the fun you could have walking at night.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 13179
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby Robi » Thu 01 Oct, 2020 3:43 pm

Sorry to show my lack of knowledge. However, I wondering where garmin devices fit into rescues. Are spot, garmin and plb signals all treated the same way? Any recommnedations on the best source to find out?
Robi
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:28 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 01 Oct, 2020 6:45 pm

Robi wrote:Sorry to show my lack of knowledge. However, I wondering where garmin devices fit into rescues. Are spot, garmin and plb signals all treated the same way? Any recommnedations on the best source to find out?


I 'think' how it works is the following

SPOT and Garmin Inreach : On Emergency activation the signal goes via satelite to a 24/7 private rescue organisation. Usually its https://www.geosresponse.com/ The private rescue org communicates with you via your device (if possible) and contacts the closest offical SAR co-ordintion agency to your postion for search and rescue.The SAR agency will activate and dispatch search and rescue services to you.

PLBs: On emergency activation the signal gets sent via satelite to an automated base station which routes it the closest offical (government) SAR co-ordintion agency to your postion. The SAR agency will activate and dispatch search and rescuse services to you

Regarding the actual radio signal.
Thats a bit more complicated.

Generally speaking a PLB sos activation signal has a higher chance of being picked up quicker as they use the global coverage COSPAS SARSAT satelite network thats has geo stationary satelites, low earth orbit satelites and now medium altitude satelites (in a higher orbit). Upon PLB activation SAR SAT satelites provide the detection/routing to rescue serices and location fixing of the PLB. The SAR SAT network is a dedicated search and rescue satelite network/system. http://www.cospas-sarsat.int/en/system- ... sat-system

Garmin uses the global coverage iridium satelite network for SOS and two way messaging. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_s ... stellation
These satelites are in a low earth orbit which could mean the SOS doesnt get picked up as fast as the PLB signal as there is greater chance of a low earth orbit line of sight to your device being interupted by a mountain or the curviture of the earth (of course if a iridium sat is directly above you or in your devices line of sight then it will get picked up right away)

The other challenge is that the iridium satelites dont offer a postion service. So your garmin device also needs to be in line of sight of a postion fixing satelite such as GPS. (as far as i know they cant use the SAR SAT satelites which have dual sos and postion fixing ability). Of course even if your garmin inreach cant find a GPS satelite you can still tell the private rescue service GEOs your location via the two way messgenger service. Spot uses a similar satelite network that used to be inferior to Garmins in terms of global coverage but im not sure if thats still the case.

One major advantage of most garmin/spot vs a PLB is that you can tell if your SOS activation has been received and help is on the way. (as the private rescuse org will msg you and provide medical info and rescue eta etc). If you dont receive acknowledgment then you know to move to a postion with a better line of sight to more sky. The private rescue org GEOS can also update search and rescue services on your condition and enviroment so SAR deploy the most appropriate assets for a quick and safe rescue.

With a PLB you activate and pray that your signal is getting through. (It probably is but if your down a steep valley it might take a few hours for a SAR SAT satelite to have line of sight to you) And you dont know if help is 3 hours or 13 hours away. If for example your bitten by a snake (where moving after being bitten is bad) then not knowing if the signal has gotten through could be very stressful and cause you to make a potentialy bad decision for your health. (like climbing to the top of the hill to get a better line of sight to the sky...with your movement reducing the time it takes for the venom to reach your vital organs)
User avatar
wildwanderer
Auctorita modica
Auctorita modica
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: Tue 02 May, 2017 8:42 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby Warin » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 10:46 am

wildwanderer wrote:
Robi wrote:Sorry to show my lack of knowledge. However, I wondering where garmin devices fit into rescues. Are spot, garmin and plb signals all treated the same way? Any recommnedations on the best source to find out?


I 'think' how it works is the following

PLBs: On emergency activation the signal gets sent via satelite to an automated base station which routes it the closest offical (government) SAR co-ordintion agency to your postion. The SAR agency will activate and dispatch search and rescuse services to you

Regarding the actual radio signal.
Thats a bit more complicated.


The PLB/EPIRB system uses 2 radio signals. Both signals are transmitted at the same time.

406MHz communicates to satellites. Use is as described above.

121.5MHz is for local ground/air communication. All commercial aircraft carry detectors for this and will communicate that they have received an emergency signal and where the signal strength is strongest. Search and rescue aircraft carry detectors for this signal and can use it to get the general idea of where it is coming from (reflections from things like mountains permitting). Some remote area mines also have detection systems for this signal and their workers are equipped with PLBs for safety reasons. A few gound based searchers have detection systems for this signal too so they can get a general idea of where it is coming from.
User avatar
Warin
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:02 am
Region: New South Wales

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby Robi » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 6:03 pm

Thanks all pretty useful info. I have a Garmin mini as I like the idea of being contacted and knowing my signal got through. Hopefully I will never need it, but I like solo hiking, there are plenty of snakes around and sometimes even with the best preparations things go wrong. I had heard the signal from the mini might not be picked up as easily, so was wondering if there were any situations that might justify adding the additional grams and cost of a plb.
Robi
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:28 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: A bit of useful rescue helicopter / PLB info

Postby wildwanderer » Sat 03 Oct, 2020 11:00 am

In most circumstances no. While the signal of a plb has a higher chance of getting through to SAR more quickly, the problem remains that you don't know if it has gotten through.

About the only environment where I would consider carrying both plb and Garmin inreach would be if I was spending the majority of the trip at the bottom of a valley that was verynarrow and featured high cliffs (as line of sight to satellites would be more restricted)
User avatar
wildwanderer
Auctorita modica
Auctorita modica
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: Tue 02 May, 2017 8:42 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Previous

Return to Techno-Babble

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests