Cradle Mountain Master Plan

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Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby philm » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 6:41 am

Just saw this come up - the new masterplan for Cradle Mountain

http://cumulus.studio/portfolio/cradle- ... ster-plan/

Not sure about this - certainly will change the environment!
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby aloftas » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 6:54 am

looks like a space portal.


I think, they should top dress the un boardwalked areas with gravel to compensate for the tree roots and eroded surfaces and leave the damn place alone.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Nuts » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 6:57 am

Of course it doesn't stop there, how about we now see some some publicly released plans for similar developments further into the park, relationships are blossoming out there as well.

And, from the superstars, some responsibility taken for driving tourists out into parks, the on-ground effect of these often 'culturally challenged' visitors being courted as they continue to innocently trash the place. Mundane stuff I know but the environs do kinda matter don't they?

I can't make it through the day walk area any more without seeing numerous unchecked incidents of maximal impact. I dread the walk personally.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby aloftas » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 6:58 am

further, what is it about untreated vertical board on buildings which is considered attractive?

back in the day, it was an economic necessity, then a fad, now a hackneyed architects wet dream.


please.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby tastrax » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 11:51 am

and not a cable car in sight....
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 11:54 am

There's already a thread on this subject.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=22700
Just move it!
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby philm » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 12:00 pm

There is a thread on the cable car not the masterplan (no cable car mentioned!)
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby aloftas » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 12:28 pm

anyways, it will obviously grow as the kudos of the place grows. I guess, there is a need for efficient logistics and some degree of comfort/safety for the walker and visitor. I guess the conflict arises between the need to cater for the visitor, whilst the walker must endure the entrapments of civilization to get to it. However, the same walker will want/need the refinements of civilization at the end of the walk.
We must also consider the elderly, often do I hear the lament "well I am 80, what can I see/do in there?" and in all honesty, I cant see any octogenarian willingly strap emselves into the gurney provided... I imagine being trundeled over a myriad of tree roots and boulder dodging would cause some consternations...

Anyway, looks like we are stuck with the evolution of this park, and possibly, it is a good thing. I would only hope that Wiendorfers plea that it be open to all is carried with some aplomb, respect for the cultural mores with a hearty dose of realism, some true ecological building (ie rammed earth, how hard can it be?) and a mindset of integrity, in that, this is how we provide "worlds best practices" into the marriage of convenience/necessity of wilderness and transit point.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 12:48 pm

The link and discussion on the matter had already started. Should merge.
Just move it!
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby aloftas » Fri 11 Mar, 2016 2:11 pm

Merging sounds like a plan, if its an issue.
:)
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Overlandman » Sat 04 Feb, 2017 2:54 pm

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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Nuts » Sun 05 Feb, 2017 4:46 pm

People don't seem to be hanging around the shelter at Dove Lake?, if the weather is rough they get back on the shuttles and head out,if they even go to DL or get off the bus. In better weather they are out by the lake or walking around? So building a new centre is speculative on enhanced use? I mean they could simply cut some windows in the south wall?

I know how hard it is to hold on to the concept of 'value for money' for public servants (splashing around government funds). On the face of the works at the Lake (i'd live with the current VC as well but others tell me it is pretty inefficient system.. even though it was obviously the pinnacle of best practice just a few short years ago? :? ) priority would be to rather fund a track ranger out in our day walk area before it's further trashed. No grand openings , plaques or back slapping but value for money and exercising responsibility V facilitating increasing damage, albeit largely out of view of the masses and award winning bus stops.
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Mark F » Sun 05 Feb, 2017 4:58 pm

So different to accessing the area by travelling at excessive speed, dodging pot holes and wallabies along 30 plus km of dirt road as it wound between trees with Dennis Maxwell at the wheel. The old accounts books used to be in the entry to Waldheim. So sanitised now days.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Nuts » Sun 05 Feb, 2017 5:27 pm

Sanitised, some of it necessary. With continuing ingress of commercialism (and politics) will never be 'enough'.
Minimal funding for recurrent P&W costs, maintenance of conservation based infrastructure, no wonder.
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Overlandman » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 7:40 pm

More from ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-06/u ... ns/8241566

Cradle Mountain ranger in charge Kate Burton said shuttle buses had been increased from 15 to 22 per day.
"We're moving people in and out of the park a lot quicker, and we've also invested heavily in upgrading our visitor infrastructure such as walking tracks, heritage buildings and viewing platforms," she said.

"Visitor numbers will continue to increase in the next couple of years, so we do need to make sure that our infrastructure continues to be developed and upgraded to meet that increasing demand."

Cradle Mountain is expecting a record 250,000 tourists this year.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Overlandman » Sat 24 Jun, 2017 7:05 pm

Update from the Advocate

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/475 ... s/?cs=5312

A new visitor centre will be the feature of the Cradle Mountain Master Plan.

Minister for Parks Matthew Groom revealed the $21.8 million stage at Cradle Mountain on Saturday, part of an overall $160 million plan to revamp the tourist icon.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby north-north-west » Sun 25 Jun, 2017 10:00 am

How do you 're-vamp' a mountain?
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby taswegian » Sun 25 Jun, 2017 11:11 am

Whilst acknowledgement there needs to be a suitable place to receive visitors, it's the experience or what tourists expect when they arrive at their 'must see destination' that counts.
I often wonder if Cradle, being one of those 'must see destinations', is to many, another place to receive the stamp and tick off their bucket list.
They come, they see, they go.
Many come through here, see Mt Roland and ask 'is that Cradle Mountain?'

Having worked in the 'Cradle precinct' on an off for years it's appears (to me) the experience is not the silence, sounds, smell, wet, wind, frost, snow, bracing air, the sheer pleasure and privilege of being in such places, but all the trappings that modern, insulated from the harsh environs has to offer.

To answer your question NNW I'm concerned for that very question.
The mind boggles.
Light shows, strategically placed, Casino, JB hifi....
Perhaps strippers and pole dancers.

I remember pushing dad around a boardwalk years ago and the pleasure he had from seeing, smelling and touching. Made his day.
He went to see what that area does best. It's wardrobe of natural wonders that adapt with the seasons, drawing endless ever changing patterns across the landscape.

Much of 'the experience' that many attend could be had, off course, in a modern site and sound experience with sounds of our 4 seasons, cold air blasted in, screen shows of Cradle over Dove Lake from dusk to twilight to dusk.
Then offer the real experience with a caveat of the reality of what to expect.
I love Maria Island. It's laid back, and to many antiquated approach to modern tourism and I hope they can keep that.
That approach could be used at Cradle and help keep its beauty and bring an awareness (hint) of what our real wilderness is all about.

I'll stop dreaming now,and just savour the many beautiful times I've had in the area of a now fleeting era.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby tastrax » Sun 25 Jun, 2017 4:01 pm

At least most of the development is still OUTSIDE the park. Some of those ideas would be disgraceful if they were 'plonked inside'. Most of this stuff is not new as the plan has been around for a while. Its really just the development application that has been commenced with still no idea where the money is coming from for all the development.
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby north-north-west » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 7:43 am

What I don't understand . . . that article says the visitors will be able to see the mountain without leaving the visitors centre. But unless they plonk the thing at Dove Lake, that's not possible except by video link. And if everyone's just going to look at it on a screen, what's the point of going all the way to Tassie to do so ? You can look at real-time video images anywhere in the world. If you're going to 'experience' the 'wilderness' you have to be there, outside, in it.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Nuts » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 8:30 am

The video philm linked gives a good overview. The new VC is to be situated past where the choppers land, near the existing one, a great view from there.
Which is a good thing, maybe they'll put in some big bino's.. and a frozen wind tunnel experience there too.

It should really be released as a 21.8m project, the rest is speculative? Even that, i'd imagine, wont be a give away. A fee to use the buses meanwhile?

Anyhow, back on a positive note, getting rid of that carpark at Dove Lake is a good idea.
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Happy Wanderer » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 9:09 pm

I'm not so sure that getting rid of the carpark, only to have it replaced with an equivalent-area building which has sharp angles and high faces, will be such a wonderful idea. If the carpark is to be removed there is a question as to where/whether it will be relocated. This is an issue for my husband and me as we tend to start walking before the shuttle bus operates, particularly in winter, and on longer day walks we may return after the last shuttle has left Lake Dove. Has anyone any idea as to how we will be able to manage with the planned changes? Adding extra distance, e.g. having to park at Ronny Creek and walk from there, would not be feasible for us.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby tastrax » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 9:43 pm

north-north-west wrote:What I don't understand . . . that article says the visitors will be able to see the mountain without leaving the visitors centre. But unless they plonk the thing at Dove Lake, that's not possible except by video link.


You can actually see Cradle from several locations way back out of the park - the end of the old airstrip, the office at the caravan park and also Ozi Ellis's old house verandah (which I seem to remember is owned by Sapphire these days??). Its a 'distant view', and given how often its clagged in it may also need to be on a 'delayed video link' to serve the appetite of the armchair tourists!
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Tortoise » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 10:14 pm

Happy Wanderer wrote:If the carpark is to be removed there is a question as to where/whether it will be relocated. This is an issue for my husband and me as we tend to start walking before the shuttle bus operates, particularly in winter, and on longer day walks we may return after the last shuttle has left Lake Dove. Has anyone any idea as to how we will be able to manage with the planned changes?

My understanding (I could be wrong) is that we will no longer be able to drive to the lake (or beyond the current boom gate at all?) so we will no longer be able to do long day walks in the area. :(
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Nuts » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 10:15 pm

Happy Wanderer, I agree, and i'm not sure either that the visual impact wont be much better with the glass and sharp edges. Lets hope it is. Maybe they'll hold off on that cable car terminal at Dove Lake till they actually secure an operator, and re-think it's placement back over the ridge..

Personally, i'm driven more by what these planners have in mind further out, anywhere above the lake and beyond, just a passing interest in this plan and 'professional' interest enough to have read through it. Even then, it relies on some re-imagining as to the longer term change that will occur, implications not mentioned, maybe not even imagined (though i doubt it) in the planning. Combine that with the typical level of personal responsibility inherent in public planning.. and mode of testing by seeing how many good people get upset (before being seen as truly committed) and pinning down the actual outcome must be akin to getting a grip on a buttered leech..

But then the plan is a final draft.. and, with much of the old guard gone from up there the path is smoothed for any 'plan'.

Road access to private vehicles is to be closed during the hours of operation of the Bus/Cable Car/ open outside those hours (yes.. I know..), restricted to 50 public car spaces.

The actual siting/mapping of re-sited car parks, i'd assume is in the document 'Cumulus Drawings 230216FINAL.pdf ' a document iv'e not seen (or had that level of personal interest to find).
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby tastrax » Tue 27 Jun, 2017 10:55 am

Cheers - Phil

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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Happy Wanderer » Wed 28 Jun, 2017 8:31 pm

Thanks for the link Tastrax.... I think...
I have had a skim read and it seems to be very little different to the draft document. Once again there is an almost total emphasis on economic impact and absolutely nothing mentioned about the impact of the weight of visitor numbers on an already stressed environment.
I also note that there appear to be many Rangers doing the 'meet and greet' thing at the cable car terminal and the lakeside pods. Since there is nothing mentioned about adding any more Rangers to Parks staff, I assume that these glorified genial hosts are going to be pulled away from such (to the proponents) unnecessary tasks as track monitoring, environmental management, etc, etc. I find the whole document depressing.

Nuts, I have tried to find the Cumulus Drawings PDF without success, so I still have no idea of their plans for private vehicles and any carparking facilities. The closure of the road still raises some questions. If you arrive at the barrier just after the time it is closed (or after a large contingent of visitors checking out of accommodation early and travelling to the Lake in numerous cars to briefly view the sunrise before leaving) and are forced to catch the shuttle, you may run the risk of missing the last shuttle returning from the lake. I have heard that if that happens you are on your own, and you either sleep in the shelter or walk back on the boardwalk - both of which could be regarded as safety risks, particularly in winter.

I share Tortoise's fears - long day walks may not be possible in the future, and yet more much-loved locations to visit may be taken away from me and others ...
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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby tastrax » Wed 28 Jun, 2017 8:43 pm

Happy Wanderer wrote:Nuts, I have tried to find the Cumulus Drawings PDF without success, so I still have no idea of their plans for private vehicles and any carparking facilities.


All the links I have found all point to this same document (linked above) but I will keep trying to find any more actual floorplans, carpark plans etc
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby tastrax » Wed 28 Jun, 2017 8:44 pm

Cheers - Phil

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Re: Cradle Mountain Master Plan

Postby Happy Wanderer » Wed 28 Jun, 2017 9:03 pm

Thanks Tastrax, although it still doesn't answer the question about private cars. From the map it appears as though there will be no private parking at all there, so where shall it be?

I am amused by the idea of the description of Location O: "Vertical picture window for solitary viewing experience". On one hand the plan is trying to add another 80,000 people to the mix and on the other suggesting that a solitary experience is good. I have visions of 500 people queuing up for their few seconds of solitary viewing experience!!!
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