Develop the South Coast Track walk

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Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby dazintaz » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 6:25 am

Im a big fan of Bob Browns but this time he's lost touch. I can't understand why we can't turn the incredible South Coast track in to a safer, more pleasurable experience by building huts.Its absurd. Numbers will be capped, whats the problem? Paying? What are people really scared of?
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:05 am

What is safer than 'due diligence' or more pleasurable than a night in a tent? I'm with Bob.

Surely a squillion can be made at either end. With the mysterious (incredible) wilderness left as a challenge?
(or at least as a change.. which is a good as a bonus holiday! !!)
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby MrWalker » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:35 am

There are basically three things we can do with areas that are not suitable for agriculture, cities, etc

Mining. This often only takes up a small area, but usually destroys that area and can cause pollution that spreads much wider.

Forestry. This requires more area, but can maintain biodiversity if done over a long enough period and can provide roads to waterfalls, picnic areas, lookouts, etc that would otherwise be inaccessible.

Tourism. This may involve more people and infrastructure, but gets more people out into these areas, providing more public support to preserve them.

If your response is none of the above, by keeping all wilderness as wilderness and no development in parks, then don't expect to have any new national parks and don't expect to keep the ones we have. If we don't support a reasonable level of tourism in remote areas, then you can be certain we will get mining or forestry instead.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby norts » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:56 am

Well there is a 4th , leave it as wilderness for future generations

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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby gayet » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 11:34 am

norts wrote:Well there is a 4th , leave it as wilderness for future generations


+1 future generations of flora and fauna (other than humans)
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby weetbix456 » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:52 pm

Ha! Once again...humans hell bent on dollar making ONLY!! Not every piece of this earth needs to have a MAN-ingful purpose. There is nothing wrong with leaving the South Coast Track as is - a more challenging tent based wilderness adventure.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby geoskid » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 4:41 pm

dazintaz wrote:Im a big fan of Bob Browns but this time he's lost touch. I can't understand why we can't turn the incredible South Coast track in to a safer, more pleasurable experience by building huts.Its absurd. Numbers will be capped, whats the problem? Paying? What are people really scared of?

Have you got a link to what he has actually said , that you are not happy about, regarding a particular proposal.
Regardless, whatever Bob has said should be irrelevant to one making their own mind up.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby dazintaz » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:23 pm

Absolute nonsense. So, by your anti development sentiment none of you have used a hut at Frenchmans, Overland track or 3 capes? Are these places ruined, no longer a pristine wilderness experience? Cmon. The South Coast is the longest most popular multi day walk in Tasmania, makes perfect sense to hut it. This state depends on tourism, theres nothing much left to offer anymore. The ludicrous and hypocritical views by most nay sayers in this state prohibit growth and reason Tasmania languishes last in Australia. Thanks to the likes of David Walsh who had the vision to build his dream i applaud him, because left to Joe Public in Tasmania, nothing gets done.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby dazintaz » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:25 pm

geoskid wrote:
dazintaz wrote:Im a big fan of Bob Browns but this time he's lost touch. I can't understand why we can't turn the incredible South Coast track in to a safer, more pleasurable experience by building huts.Its absurd. Numbers will be capped, whats the problem? Paying? What are people really scared of?

Have you got a link to what he has actually said , that you are not happy about, regarding a particular proposal.
Regardless, whatever Bob has said should be irrelevant to one making their own mind up.


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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby dazintaz » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:26 pm

Nuts wrote:What is safer than 'due diligence' or more pleasurable than a night in a tent? I'm with Bob.

Surely a squillion can be made at either end. With the mysterious (incredible) wilderness left as a challenge?
(or at least as a change.. which is a good as a bonus holiday! !!)



Whats your point?
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:28 pm

They wont be public huts - just private commercial huts (if they get up....)
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby dazintaz » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:29 pm

MrWalker wrote:There are basically three things we can do with areas that are not suitable for agriculture, cities, etc

Mining. This often only takes up a small area, but usually destroys that area and can cause pollution that spreads much wider.

Forestry. This requires more area, but can maintain biodiversity if done over a long enough period and can provide roads to waterfalls, picnic areas, lookouts, etc that would otherwise be inaccessible.

Tourism. This may involve more people and infrastructure, but gets more people out into these areas, providing more public support to preserve them.

If your response is none of the above, by keeping all wilderness as wilderness and no development in parks, then don't expect to have any new national parks and don't expect to keep the ones we have. If we don't support a reasonable level of tourism in remote areas, then you can be certain we will get mining or forestry instead.


You've just named the ONLY 3 things Tasmania can do for employment. Where else will you generate jobs. I tell you what, if we did eliminate all 3 half the public service would have nothing to do and there would be no job for them. Bravo, great point!!
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:33 pm

dazintaz wrote: The South Coast is the longest most popular multi day walk in Tasmania.


What? It might be long, but its far from the most popular multi day walk in Tasmania. Where are you getting your numbers from?
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:51 pm

Here is the proposal for those that dont know about it.

http://cg.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_ ... s_Walk.pdf

Personally I cant see it getting up unless he has a bottomless wallet or a big subsidy of some sort. Maybe he might cut it back to Prion Beach to Cockle with seaplane access to better match high end walking experience (3 - 4 nights). This will also miss the Ironbounds! The Southcoast track is way more difficult for commercial punters than either the Overland or Three Capes.
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:54 pm

You can also keep up with some of the other submissions here

http://cg.tas.gov.au/home/investment_at ... m_projects
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby weetbix456 » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:06 pm

I am saying that not ALL walks in Tasmania have to be accommodated with private huts the same as the next. What is wrong with any tours through the area utilising a traditional tenting experience? The sites are solid & hold up well. Tenting to most is much a part of any Tasmanian bushwalking experience. The South Coast is definitely not the most popular long distance walk in Tasmania (The Overland, Three Capes, Bay of Fires, Walls of Jerusalem, WA's, Frenchman's???), and holds its own for what it is. It is different to other walks in Tassie...why are we obsessed with choking every last gem/uniqueness until they are all the same.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby weetbix456 » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:12 pm

dazintaz wrote:The ludicrous and hypocritical views by most nay sayers in this state prohibit growth and reason Tasmania languishes last in Australia. Thanks to the likes of David Walsh who had the vision to build his dream i applaud him, because left to Joe Public in Tasmania, nothing gets done.


I support a lot of projects/developments around the state at the moment. What I do not support is squeezing an idea dry so the profit spreads across a too out of control playing field and only a select few end up reaping the rewards. There is a massive difference between smart/tactical proposals elsewhere and developments smack in the middle of the supposedly forever protected WHA.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 6:23 am

MrWalker wrote:Tourism. This may involve more people and infrastructure, but gets more people out into these areas, providing more public support to preserve them.


Ah that red herring.

Big conservation wins, results, haven't relied on developing wild places, or, for weight of opinion, even occupying them...

At the pointy end this sort of tourism, bringing a new group of users to a tamed and tailored experience, may very well be as destructive as forestry and mining albeit by a less obvious (more insidious) mode.

Usually accompanied by some bottom line, faith, that things can only get as 'bad' as examples from other countries/ pre-school view that problems don't exist if hidden from sight, just a little cut, just over there behind those pesky bushes..

tastrax wrote:You can also keep up with some of the other submissions here

http://cg.tas.gov.au/home/investment_at ... m_projects


Hack, slash and buzz. Sold out or never knew better? 'Eco'-tourism'? Really?? Exclusivity and profiteering, political and personal gain.
Deplorable basket of projects with few exceptions.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby pazzar » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 9:33 am

dazintaz wrote:Absolute nonsense. So, by your anti development sentiment none of you have used a hut at Frenchmans, Overland track or 3 capes? Are these places ruined, no longer a pristine wilderness experience? Cmon. The South Coast is the longest most popular multi day walk in Tasmania, makes perfect sense to hut it.


Have you been to Frenchmans lately? The development of the track has left the area swamped by walkers and is struggling to cope with the numbers. There are more platforms being built, plus a hut being replaced to help cope with the numbers. I think this seriously detracts from the wilderness values of the area.

And the South Coast is definitely not the most popular walk, and for good reason - it is a challenging walk. Keep it that way. I was on the track in the peak of last summer, plus a few days hanging around Melaleuca, and at most we found into 2 or 3 parties starting each day, hardly huge numbers. Give us some hard evidence and we might change our minds.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 10:14 am

Overused?, right, lock them out in order of bank balance and potential spend.
And from that quarter, Frenchman's is primed for the next permit system!

Of course there may be a morsel thrown to pacify locals (as on the Tasman penn.), the bother dependent on how troublesome they become.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby slparker » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 2:36 pm

pazzar wrote:
dazintaz wrote:Absolute nonsense. So, by your anti development sentiment none of you have used a hut at Frenchmans, Overland track or 3 capes? Are these places ruined, no longer a pristine wilderness experience? Cmon. The South Coast is the longest most popular multi day walk in Tasmania, makes perfect sense to hut it.


Have you been to Frenchmans lately? The development of the track has left the area swamped by walkers and is struggling to cope with the numbers. There are more platforms being built, plus a hut being replaced to help cope with the numbers. I think this seriously detracts from the wilderness values of the area.

And the South Coast is definitely not the most popular walk, and for good reason - it is a challenging walk. Keep it that way. I was on the track in the peak of last summer, plus a few days hanging around Melaleuca, and at most we found into 2 or 3 parties starting each day, hardly huge numbers. Give us some hard evidence and we might change our minds.


i walked the south coast track a few years ago and it could hardly be described as pristine.

The environment in 2014-5 was severely degraded by the cumulative effect of the passage of even '2-3 walkers a day'.

the walk being 'challenging' might deter even more walkers but there is no reason, IMHO, to be complacent or at all satisfied with the current state of the track (assuming that it hasn't changed much).

better off having a hardened track with three times the walkers than the overflowing pit toilets and muddy lensed track that i saw in 2014. The mudbath that is (was) the south-coast track is not the SW in its natural state, not a rite of passage, a badge of honour nor a deterrent - it is just a sign of extreme overuse by walkers like you and I.

I was ashamed to see the state of the track and to contribute to its degradation.

i sup[pose there are three options. Close the track, accept the degradation or harden it. The first is not acceptable to those who wish to use the SW for their recreation, the second is sheer complacency in the face of rampant overuse and the latter has the risk of an arms race between continued use and continued hardening.

In 10-20 years time the population using the track might be 10-20 times of now. Don't scoff - I was in taiwan 3 years ago where millions of middle class chinese were in an island the size of Tasmania - including it's mountain trails. The natural world is shrinking and Tasmania does have to face some hard choices in how it manages it's remote places.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 2:57 pm

You missed the fourth and fifth options - make all walkers pay for repair of damage (real costs not token Park Fees), restrict use to levels that do not cause damage (and let the wilderness survive)
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby slparker » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 3:13 pm

tastrax wrote:You missed the fourth and fifth options - make all walkers pay for repair of damage (real costs not token Park Fees), restrict use to levels that do not cause damage (and let the wilderness survive)


yep, that's not implicit in what i wrote.

i agree that walkers should pay fair wear and tear - i would have and perhaps a levy for cleaning the jetsam off the beaches.

As for restricting use I think that this will be inevitable. i'm glad I was of the generation that got to walk it.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby geoskid » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 7:20 pm

tastrax wrote:You missed the fourth and fifth options - make all walkers pay for repair of damage (real costs not token Park Fees), restrict use to levels that do not cause damage (and let the wilderness survive)

G'day Tastrax,
I respect your view of things because I know your history (being long term members here),
I also know that you don't often put your view across,( very diplomatic in my view), and yet I think you are ideally placed to do so.
I have been thinking about this thread all day when I should be getting on with my work.
Personally, I would like you to write an essay length view of your thoughts( here) on NP, WHA conception, usage, and the future of same.
I am going to put up links to UNESCO stuff, because some (even here), obviously have not read it.

Edit- Whilst I have read it, it is a complex thing, and I still don't know how it would be best to implement and manage tourism in our WHA.
I do know that I am pissed off with simplistic rhetoric.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Thu 23 Mar, 2017 6:58 am

The SCT could be permitted, locked down and controlled. Drive ten or twenty thousand new walkers out there, do similar on all the other big walks?

I'd like to see the re-imagining plan for everything else.

As bad as track and toilet conditions can get they are only minor in any grand scheme, visual/experiential impacts. While it's very worth being precious about track corridors, this direction needs to take responsibility for populating 'everywhere else', all the side walks and remote peaks. And the attitude to use of more remote places for all these new walkers, do we populate and control every route or wombat pad? .. With guns?

Unlikely. More likely a new, more complex, set of dilemmas.

Back on the topic of private operators, not only a physical assault, now an affront to the very notion of 'wilderness', semantics aside. What good does it do to assist an attitude shift to lessen the very ideal? promote the concept that building resorts is in any way respectful, soon assumed to be an appropriate norm? For what? A few $?

Not convinced by 1-3. I don't have an option six, sure it should be independent of any mere standing government (and involve a deep breath.. and a good long think.. ). Maybe even independent of the park service under such governance, selling a guide (that they don't endorse) to the most remote places, in their shops, while charged with protecting them :?
Last edited by Nuts on Fri 24 Mar, 2017 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Thu 23 Mar, 2017 8:38 am

geoskid wrote:Personally, I would like you to write an essay length view of your thoughts( here) on NP, WHA conception, usage, and the future of same.


Alas geoskid, this is unlikely to happen as I am a lousy writer! It would end up being a long winded incomprehensible rant (unless my wife spent hours editing it). :D :D
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Thu 23 Mar, 2017 9:04 am

Meh, don't sell yourself short Traxy, anything more than a quip or link is a 'rant' to some occasional hoverers. It's kind of morbidly amusing, this space, our imperfections. Even for the sober.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Son of a Beach » Fri 24 Mar, 2017 11:36 am

dazintaz wrote:Absolute nonsense. So, by your anti development sentiment none of you have used a hut at Frenchmans, Overland track or 3 capes? Are these places ruined, no longer a pristine wilderness experience?


Yes, they are ruined and no longer a pristine wilderness experience. Not completely ruined, but certainly somewhat ruined.

PWS do what they can to minimise the ruin, but they are ruined by overuse - and I contribute to that.

And the last few times I did the OT, I did not use the huts, or the platforms.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Fri 24 Mar, 2017 11:51 am

Nuts wrote:Meh, don't sell yourself short Traxy, anything more than a quip or link is a 'rant' to some occasional hoverers. It's kind of morbidly amusing, this space, our imperfections. Even for the sober.


Ha ha - thanks Nuts. If I get bored one rainy day I may just pen something for everyone's amusement
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Fri 24 Mar, 2017 12:29 pm

Part of me likes to think there could be a middle ground on this. Eg. fix up the track where it's heavily degraded, maybe do something about the loos at the campsites (ie. something more than hession around a couple of star pickets), but leave private huts out of it. I know that's not what's being proposed, and since (from a superficial look) any sort of upgrade seems to be tied to the ability to run private hut operations, it's probably a pipe dream. I'm sure I'll get flamed by some who would prefer to leave it as it is (I personally don't mind the mud!) but like it or not the SCT is a major drawcard - I've come across people overseas who talk about it - and at the very least it should be a reasonable standard along its length. I think the track can be improved without degrading wilderness value too much, but the additional numbers that would logically follow would need to be managed.

So, more a rant than a value add... It just $#|!s me that governments only seem to care about track conditions when private $$$ are on the table. At a high level having a separate set of infrastructure within a wilderness area for people prepared to pay more is galling enough on its own, but the suggestion that everyone else needs to rely on the existence of private huts to have a decent track to walk on seems out of whack.

dazintaz wrote:Im a big fan of Bob Browns...
How many are there?
tastrax wrote: It would end up being a long winded incomprehensible rant :D :D
Wouldn't be out of place in this forum at all then :D
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