Develop the South Coast Track walk

Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby davidf » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 10:53 pm

This is a half tongue in cheek/serious idea, no more tourist flights or bushwalker deliverys in. walk from scotts peak, paddle, sail from out of the park. Get there your self or don't go. NB I am anti hut, tassie does not have to be europe and wilderness should not be a commodity
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 8:49 am

davidf wrote:wilderness should not be a commodity


That's the key principle for me. I don't have a problem with people running businesses that make money from experiences in the wilderness (or relatively near-wilderness). But when the wilderness values are eroded by development for the sake of commercial gain or for the state economy, that is exploitation and against the basic principles of wilderness management in national parks (or should be!).

The only development that should occur in national parks should be for the sake of preserving wilderness (eg, track hardening, toilets, tent pads) and only in situations where not doing so would cause the degradation to be even worse (eg, braided muddy tracks, toilet waste scattered about and contaminating water, messed up camp sites).

I still do not like even these "necessary" developments, but I can see that they are actually necessary in some cases. But if commercial gains win out over wilderness values in a national park, then the notion of national parks is meaningless.

(They are really 'state parks' not 'national parks' in Australia, anyhow. I wonder if we'd have the same problem if they were genuinely 'national parks'.)
Last edited by Son of a Beach on Mon 17 Jul, 2017 8:56 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 8:51 am

davidf wrote:This is a half tongue in cheek/serious idea, no more tourist flights or bushwalker deliverys in. walk from scotts peak, paddle, sail from out of the park. Get there your self or don't go. NB I am anti hut, tassie does not have to be europe and wilderness should not be a commodity


I like that idea, but I can see that it wouldn't be acceptable to many. I've not yet done the SCT, but when I do, I plan walk all the way to/from the car(s) - no planes.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby north-north-west » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 9:27 am

Son of a Beach wrote:I like that idea, but I can see that it wouldn't be acceptable to many. I've not yet done the SCT, but when I do, I plan walk all the way to/from the car(s) - no planes.
Have fun with that. The SCT is a doddle compared to the Port Davey track, especially if it's been raining. And it's a lot of food to carry to combine the two without a drop . . .
Son of a Beach wrote:The only development that should occur in national parks should be for the sake of preserving wilderness (eg, track hardening, toilets, tent pads) and only in situations where not doing so would cause the degradation to be even worse (eg, braided muddy tracks, toilet waste scattered about and contaminating water, messed up camp sites).

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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 1:12 pm

north-north-west wrote:
Son of a Beach wrote:I like that idea, but I can see that it wouldn't be acceptable to many. I've not yet done the SCT, but when I do, I plan walk all the way to/from the car(s) - no planes.
Have fun with that. The SCT is a doddle compared to the Port Davey track, especially if it's been raining. And it's a lot of food to carry to combine the two without a drop . . .


Yes, I've heard that. And not the most fun walk either. But it's only a few extra days, and I've carried two weeks worth of food before without too much trouble. I'll get there... eventually.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby pazzar » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 1:36 pm

Son of a Beach wrote:
north-north-west wrote:
Son of a Beach wrote:I like that idea, but I can see that it wouldn't be acceptable to many. I've not yet done the SCT, but when I do, I plan walk all the way to/from the car(s) - no planes.
Have fun with that. The SCT is a doddle compared to the Port Davey track, especially if it's been raining. And it's a lot of food to carry to combine the two without a drop . . .


Yes, I've heard that. And not the most fun walk either. But it's only a few extra days, and I've carried two weeks worth of food before without too much trouble. I'll get there... eventually.


I'm not sure why the Port Davey Track cops such a bad wrap! I really enjoyed it. It was early January 2016 when I went through, and it was in pretty good condition. It was a little sticky crossing the Lost World plateau, and the day into Melaleuca was boggy, but from Junction Creek to Spring River, the track is mostly benched, so it doesn't get severe muddy erosion. Obviously it is the SW, and poor conditions can make any walk unpleasant though!
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 2:57 pm

Good to hear. Sounds like I'll need to be prepared for anything. I've found that even the Arthur plains can vary wildly depending on the recent and current weather too. After a few weeks of sun and heat, most of the muddy sections are a doddle.

But we've digressed into discussing actual bushwalking!
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby north-north-west » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 6:11 pm

That day into Melaleuca makes up for a lot.
OK, my impressions of the track are from an horrific walk back in 80/81 and I suppose it would have been upgraded a bit since then, but from Bathurst Narrows to Melaleuca in the wet is worse than all the mud on the SCT combined. Or maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy . . .
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Mon 17 Jul, 2017 6:46 pm

davidf wrote:This is a half tongue in cheek/serious idea, no more tourist flights or bushwalker deliverys in. walk from scotts peak, paddle, sail from out of the park. Get there your self or don't go. NB I am anti hut, tassie does not have to be europe and wilderness should not be a commodity


I'm kinda partial to that flight to Melaleuca, i'm sure it gives a sense of the scale of unique undeveloped wilderness and an appreciation of what we have.

Unfortunate that then, as a business, having nowhere to grow; double the flights, more facilities, bigger planes, longer runways..? or the other way, add value, build accommodation if the opportunity presents, double that at the next opportunity? (as we have seen elsewhere).
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Sun 23 Jul, 2017 6:07 pm

Not purposed to steer the discussion back to the action that prompted the original post. There's no doubt the SCT will eventually be 'developed'. Personally, I have less concern for development under an 'as necessary', minimal impact doctrine. I was fascinated by the hustle and bustle, people employed on, and the 'industry' of, The Overland Track as my first overnight experience in Tas (after the solitude of other solo and group walks here & on the mainland tracks). At the same time I put most weight on thoughts such as SOAB has offered. As such, If change is necessary, it's up to those who want it to justify the need and explain these things in full to those effected. Shouldn't be the other way around.

'Bushwalking Tasmania president Andrew Davey supports the proposal and dismissed concerns over its wilderness character'

Is this group the go-to for an opinion, aligned with this government? Obviously at odds with some or many tassie bushwalkers then?
Please join in the discussion, make a statement, here on this forum of 10,000+ including many tassie walkers and our guests. Save existing in a bubble that can serve none but a few, making such public statements on behalf of us? Sounds a rather flippant attitude, perhaps they, as a group have more studied insight to share? A resort itself isn't 'widerness', what do you see as the benefit? Can you qualify this statement (did you poll all the clubs? have a study group projecting the outcome to a longer term 'vision'?) more to the point, can you simply quantify the outcome of this single proposal. What is in it for the Bushwalkers of Tasmania?
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 10:39 am

Just remember there are a few "Bushwalking Tasmania" groups. The one with Andrew Davey as President is this one

http://www.bushwalkingaustralia.org/members/tasmania

The object of Bushwalking Tasmania is: "To unite all associations actively concerned with bushwalking and mountaineering and advancement of their mutual interests".

Maybe commercial huts are in 'their mutual interests'?
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 11:38 am

Thanks Phil. I see 'Bushwalking Australia' lend their support to allowing commercial huts in the Blue Mtns. The overriding assumption appears to be that the company (Tasmanian Walking Company) will provide funding to maintain the walking track/s.

The SCT has it's public funding ( http://www.greatwalks.com.au/news/south ... cond-stage ).
There is nothing in the proposal for private huts that includes any direct funding for upgrades to the public track or facilities.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Lophophaps » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 3:31 pm

Bushwalking Australia is not the same as Bushwalk Australia. This website publishes Bushwalk Australia.

While the OLT huts are fairly subtle, I'm not keen on private enterprise on national parks. It's a slow process to gradually turn nature into business. Victoria has this under consideration now with huts enar mount Feathertop and nearby. The Razorback is a Conservation zone, and Parks Victoria is yet to explain how a lodge, helicopters and drones meets this zone. I'd apply similar questions to the SCT and all other like places.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:37 pm

More people keep asking for my opinions on track management so I had a go at a suitable rant - enjoy!

Bushwalk forum essay.pdf
Phils rant on track management
(385.77 KiB) Downloaded 576 times
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby geoskid » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:47 pm

tastrax wrote:More people keep asking for my opinions on track management so I had a go at a suitable rant - enjoy!

Bushwalk forum essay.pdf


Thanks! Look forward to reading it after dinner.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:14 pm

Son of a Beach wrote:PWS do what they can to minimise the ruin, but they are ruined by overuse - and I contribute to that.

And the last few times I did the OT, I did not use the huts, or the platforms.

Just curious, would avoiding those established huts and platforms be causing more or less damage for the area? Obviously it's a different experience for the individual, but is it a good thing to do? Who should be entitled to camp wild?
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby ChrisJHC » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:19 pm

Great stuff, Tas!


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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Mechanic-AL » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:41 pm

Love your work TT. ( who said you couldn't write ? )

Your essay certainly highlights just what a complex issue this is.

But I would really have appreciated hearing more of your own personal thoughts on the way forward from here. I respect the opinions of people with your level of experience.
I was about to have my own little rant but you have loaded me up with information to be absorbed first.

( I suspect I'll still be agreeing with Nuts at the end of it all but I'm sure there will be some informative reading in there ).

Thanks for you essay, much appreciated

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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 8:55 pm

Ok, so in relation to 'development on the south coast' these are the key points

Is upgrading of TRACK infrastructure in line with the track management strategy and the track classification - Yes, its a Recreation Zone and appropriate for the track classification (subject to the track techniques complying with track classifications)

Are huts appropriate in that zoning - Yes, BUT, in the case of the South Coast Track it required a change in the new WHA management plan as the old plan did not allow huts in the Southwest National Park plus, there needs to be a Recreation Zone Plan developed for the area. Recreation zones are 200 metres wide either side of the track (I think, in new plan) so any huts would need to be within that area. More public protest may have prevented this change.

Do the new huts fit in the current recreation Zone - no one knows as I am not sure that site locations have been identified in any public documentation.

Do I personally think its appropriate - no and yes - Its another step in the incremental creep of 'upgrading' remote areas to facilitate tourism which I personally dont agree with, however given the zoning it is the most likely location in which something such as this could occur (since the changes to the WHA plan). It also implies that PUBLIC huts on the South Coast Track would also be OK which means a change in the recreational opportunity spectrum for the area and possibly a displacement of walkers from that area to somewhere else....thus continuing the incremental 'hardening and sanitising' of remote areas to accommodate folks that may not have the necessary skills for the area.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 9:00 pm

PS - I think Tasmania needs a point of difference for walking opportunities. We dont need to turn into a NZ style hut based destination. If you want that, go to NZ or for more catered walks, Europe. When you have done Europe and NZ come here and have a real self reliant walking holiday and challenge yourself against mother nature. Stop being wimps!
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Mark F » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 9:24 pm

tastrax wrote:PS - I think Tasmania needs a point of difference for walking opportunities. We dont need to turn into a NZ style hut based destination. If you want that, go to NZ or for more catered walks, Europe. When you have done Europe and NZ come here and have a real self reliant walking holiday and challenge yourself against mother nature. Stop being wimps!


For me it went the other way. Southern Range to PB and Pictons, Eastern Arthurs and Western Arthurs etc in the early 70's when I was young and foolhardy and tracks were largely non-existent. Now it is Europe in my dotage but still capable of a slow tracked walk in Tassie.

I may have missed it in my quick read but I think the history of huts or lack thereof in an area is a factor to be considered (OLT, Central Plateau vs SW). For the SCT I feel that until issues of reliable access (flights to Melaleuca) and movement along the track (river crossings - eg South Cape Rivulet) are solved huts should not be considered and I suspect neither of these problems will or can be addressed.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby tastrax » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 9:29 pm

Mark F wrote:For me it went the other way. Southern Range to PB and Pictons, Eastern Arthurs and Western Arthurs etc in the early 70's when I was young and foolhardy and tracks were largely non-existent. Now it is Europe in my dotage but still capable of a slow tracked walk in Tassie.


:lol: :lol: Maybe its all the Aussie baby boomers wanting similar experiences in Tassie that is promoting the apathy about wild areas in Tasmania. That wont help with the displacement issue though. Also remember that at one stage the Overland track was a 'wilderness'!
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Azza » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:50 am

Coastal walk with Huts...
hmmm.. sounds a bit like 3 Capes?
Variety is good.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 1:08 pm

Good effort Phil.
Last edited by Nuts on Thu 27 Jul, 2017 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nuts » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 10:55 am

(.)
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Mechanic-AL » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 6:49 pm

The proposal of huts on the SCT can't be considered without looking at the broader picture of Track (people) Management.
In Tastrax's essay a 1996 TPWS study put the annual number of overnight walkers in the state at 20 000 people. If this figure grew at the forecast rate of 7 % then the number of overnighters is fast approaching 30 000 people, Daytrippers not included. To accept this kind of growth in fragile areas without any restriction is simply not going to work. TT's essay also indicated that of all the control measures identified by a selected Track Assesment Group the restrictions on walker numbers was the least popular ( only 17% of bushwalkers supported any limits on numbers ).

So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask "Have bushwalkers in Tasmania had it too easy for too long ?"

So long as you have a valid Parks Pass and some free time at your disposal there has been very little getting in the way of walking wherever and whenever you feel like it.
Maybe the time for freedom of choice has passed. At least as far as the more popular walks are concerned.
I don't imagine anybody enjoys having to book to walk the OLT or or being told when you can or can't walk. I HATE it. But I can also appreciate that capped numbers are probably doing more to maintain the integrity of the area than anything else at the moment.

Apart from Bert NIcholls the huts on the OLT are fairly unobtrusive. But the simple fact that they are there at all gives license to the notion of huts elsewhere in the wilderness. IF it is a roof over your head you need to enjoy an overnight walk then Frenchmans Cap, The Overland Track and The 3 Capes Track are about as finer walks as you could hope for with huts available. As the number of walkers continues to grow the range of people expectations of a walk will continue to broaden. But does EVERY track in the state have to cater for ALL those expectation ?.

Tasmania has an opportunity here to maintain is unique identity in the world. By resisting the urge to dot the wild areas of the state with creature comforts Tassie could continue to boast being one of the world's last true wilderness experiences. Big business can't take that to the bank right now but I think the dollar value on it will grow faster and greater than anybody yet realizes.
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby north-north-west » Fri 28 Jul, 2017 8:23 am

Mechanic-AL wrote:But does EVERY track in the state have to cater for ALL those expectation ?.

Tasmania has an opportunity here to maintain its unique identity in the world. By resisting the urge to dot the wild areas of the state with creature comforts Tassie could continue to boast being one of the world's last true wilderness experiences. Big business can't take that to the bank right now but I think the dollar value on it will grow faster and greater than anybody yet realizes.


This is where I stand. It's supposed to be wilderness. Once you put huts in and upgrade the rest of the infrastructure it is no longer wilderness, just a sanitised approximation thereof.
Visitors have to understand that wilderness and ease/comfort are mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be painful and uncomfortable to have a genuine 'wilderness experience', but you have to expect that it may be.

btw, was anyone else fuming at the comment in Phil's excellent essay about the cessation of the track assessment program? You can't manage tracks and parks if you don't know how they're being used by how many people and what that impact is. More expletive deleted short-sightedness by idiot politicians. :x
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Fri 28 Jul, 2017 11:32 am

I know assessment is the accepted method, but is it really necessary? (the opposing care-less-ness is blatant)

It's dismal from the outset to realise that the only solution to counteract the commercial (& political) ingress, which drive development at all levels, is almost certainly a political one. I'd dearly love to see some leadership, active in representing the people who hold on to the value of wild places. But the political outcomes are likely to nobodies or no party's immediate advantage. Even the value based counterpoints seem wishy washy V's a simple economic assessment (in political terms).

Taking time from my day job ( :evil: :roll: ) I've made a start on instigating a petition (many actually) but i'm nothing like the best person to be doing so, they quickly divert from what would be seen as pleasant or acceptable reading..

Dear big fish of the little bowl. We, those constituents hanging around the airstone, ... yada yada..

The only true representation, that I'm sure at the end of the day (a day 50-100yrs from now) can only be ignored by economists and hippies alike, would probably ask for a requisition of existing private infrastructure, it's reinstatement for public use, and demand request any further development be underpinned by minimal impact assessment.

Even that, mix economics with minimal impact and you probably do end up with exclusive private huts, exclusively, with All other access denied.

so... 'underpinned by minimal impact policy and not economic growth'?

For me it's as much about developing Lindeman Island (NP) as a resort for Chinese high rollers as it is a few huts on the SCT.

_______

For any expression of concern (or indeed backslapping), local members are probably the best access to government (as Phil mentioned), otherwise:

'Parks' minister: matthew.groom@dpac.tas.gov.au

Shadow 'Parks' minister: //craig.farrell@parliament.tas.gov.au

Who else?

________

(ps. admin. was it really necessary to again remove the longer time lag for deleting a post?)
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Re: Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby Nuts » Mon 31 Jul, 2017 6:02 pm

I'd hide too from that statement, 'Bushwalking Tasmania'.

This didn't go far enough but at least it's a start appears to still be relevant (if indeed they back themselves going into the next election) (at least so will I).
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-11/g ... ks/7834336
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Develop the South Coast Track walk

Postby chapman » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 4:20 pm

I might be wrong but I suspect much of the opposition from Bob Brown to huts on the South Coast Track is about where does this end. If the South Coast Track gets huts, whats next, South West Cape or the Western Arthurs. While I think that maybe huts along the South Coast Track is OK if done properly, the real issue is - will this be the last and only hut walk in the South West. Once they sell out their hut trips on the South Coast Track, I suspect the commercial operators might next think that huts around South West Cape would be a great idea as well. So where does this end. I think thats why Bob Brown has taken a stand to say development must have a limit otherwise its no longer wilderness. Lets have no huts at all in the south west, the management plan states that but as we know governments can change such plans or make amendments or exceptions so the plans that we all contributed to mean little.

If we cant stop huts along the South Coast Track then we need to concentrate on how and where the huts will be built. It should be like the overland Track where parks selected the sites, not the operators which what I suspect the minister might allow. The OT huts are deliberately hidden so they dont steal the views or take over existing camping areas. Those who want the South Coast Track upgraded to tourist standard will not get the money to do it unless there are huts so I tend to think one depends on the other.

Of course do we need to repair the South Coast Track to tourist standard? As it stands I dont mind the current state of the South Coast Track. While some think its a disaster its much much less muddy then it used to be and actually is in better condition that it was 30 years ago. Its just that many of the more recent walkers dont have the memory of 16km of knee deep mud on the Louisa Plains etc. Yes in the last couple of years it has deteriorated a bit, but much of the reason is that all the spare cash for track work has gone into the Three Capes Track and very little left for anywhere else. Hopefully that will change once they finish that project.

While talking about the Three Capes Track, a big thanks to the local tassie walkers who embarrassed the government into allowing tent based campers to walk to Cape Pillar for free. They did a great job and showed that politicians cant just ignore the community all the time. While you can now walk to the cape as a day walk (we have recently done that), many will find camping a nicer more leisurely option that is ideal for families and less experienced walkers.
chapman
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
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