Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli access

Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion.
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Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby vertigrator » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 9:29 pm

Richard W wrote:1. The proposal originally being for access by float-plane. As far as I know, the submission to the EPBC, made on March 28, is the first information that the proponent is actually planning to use helicopters for access instead. This is quite a change and would be the first time helicopters would be permitted to land inside the TWWHA.


Daniel's Skullbone Plains site already has helicopters coming in a couple of times a year for maintenance I believe. Also there are helicopters regularly used by Parks for maintenance in parks and also don't the Tas Walking Company who runs the guiding & private huts on the Overland Track use choppers for maintenance of their huts?
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Mafeking09 » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 11:51 pm

Richard W wrote:I have been following RiverFly 1864's proposal to build a permanent standing camp on Halls Island, inside the Walls of Jerusalem WHA.

Access will be via helicopter to a new helipad and track to be built just south of Lake Malbena.

The proposal has now been posted on the Federal Environment Department EPBC website, so it must require approval under the EPBC Act 1999.

http://epbcnotices.environment.gov.au/invitations/, number 2018/8177.

They have invited public comment, which closes on 17 April.

Pretty extraordinary that they are able to do this inside the boundary Walls of Jerusalem WHA.

Stage II, according to the proposal, will be a new, walking track to Mount Oana, likewise inside the WHA - at the moment there are not even footpads in this area.

I understand how the original owner was able to get a lease on Halls Island in 1955, and how that lease passed to his daughter.

What I don't understand is how Riverfly 1864 were able to get that lease transferred to them in the last few years. Shouldn't the lease have been transferred to the Government so Halls Island could be incorporated into the Walls of Jersualem National Park?

The proposal is for 30 trips a year - assuming 4 days per trip that essentially puts Halls Island off-limits to the public for 120 days a year.

Aside from that, the precedent for private developments in remove parts of the WHA where there are not even any formed tracks at present, and helicopter access for clients, is an extremely negative development in my view.

I've been visiting Halls Island most years since 1995 - I would be extremely sorry to see it developed as proposed.

Interested to hear people's thoughts on it.
. Hi all. I’m worried about Daniel Hackett’s proposal to start running chopper trips to Malbena. I’ve posted this in the Tas fly fishers forum as well.

Years ago I read Greg French’s Frog Call and my mates and me made two trips to Malbena and Halls Island - with our kids. It’s wild and amazing. I’m shocked that Daniel Hackett has a proposal to fly choppers in there to run fly fishing trips. This will make a wild area a chopper day trip destination. I know it’s a big call but I reckon it’s wrong. Daniel - stick to the fringes - keep choppers out. Don’t destroy the wilderness.



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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby bogholesbuckethats » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 7:54 am

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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Richard W » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 8:08 am

Daniel's Skullbone Plains site already has helicopters coming in a couple of times a year for maintenance I believe. Also there are helicopters regularly used by Parks for maintenance in parks and also don't the Tas Walking Company who runs the guiding & private huts on the Overland Track use choppers for maintenance of their huts?


Maintenance is one thing, routine access for tourists would be a first as far as I am aware.

Daniel Hackett could easily expand his original operation at Skullbone Planes to include foot access to Lake Malbena as an alternative to helicopter access.

He's planning to build extensive new walking tracks in the area as Stage 2 of the proposal anyway.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby stepbystep » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 9:59 am

Hackett's coercion of the Halls Island lease holder into handing it over is a massive part of this... How can that even be allowed in the TWWHA. If a families historic connection is to stop surely the lease should be ceded to the state!
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Richard W » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 10:06 am

Apparently the previous leaseholder, who is Reg Hall's daughter, is a strong supporter of the plan.

As Daniel Hackett himself said, Reg Hall was very protective about the area and told virtually no-one about it.

So building a luxury camp and helicopter landing pad there to facilitate 30 trips a year seems like an odd way to honor Reg's memory.

I have submitted a Right To Information request to Parks and Wildlife requesting information about how, amongst other matters, the lease was transferred to Daniel Hackett instead of being incorporated into the TWWHA,
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby taswegian » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 1:22 pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-11/tas-anger-over-fly-fishing-proposal-in-wha/9636466?WT.ac=statenews_tas

Above is from Advocate.

Interesting points raised above here in forum.

He has a lot of contradictions in the submission.
A careful analysis would be useful in any submission.

This is 2018. Not 50 years ago, not in the late 1800's early 1900's.
The world has moved on since then.

These proposed a activities can be successful outside this area.
His argument are there alternatives - No, is rubbish.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby ofuros » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 2:07 pm

And hopefully all his overseas clients clean their gear thoroughly & declare...once it's here its almost impossible to get rid of, ask the kiwis.

http://dpipwe.tas.gov.au/biosecurity-ta ... (rock-snot)
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Nuts » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 2:49 pm

While we continue to approach each EOI by value judgement from our own personal experiences these insidious incursions march on. It's easy to flip off a popular track, or the next valley over, as collateral damage, but meanwhile the proposals & their respective precedents will just keep rolling out. In an overview, the proponent, even the proposal, they don't really matter? (edit: not to dismiss the concern & work involved in reprising each one.. i'm disgusted this is all necessary, good on those contributing in any small way)..

• Cradle Canyons – a proposal for heli-canyoning commencing on a tributary of the Hartnett River adjacent to Waterfall Valley on the Overland Track.

With no recourse to contest the entire 're-imagining' (as a whole), without compromise, us meek will inherit whats left. It's not going to be much. I'm then ok with the term Wilderness being dropped. Doing so at least acknowledges the fact. Pleanty of wilderness left elsewhere..

Sadly, the next battleground, one now faced with little cohesion, even within 'green' opinion. It's been brewing far longer than is now evident by public concern (i recall a conversation about contesting heli landings in the park, with the ranger in charge.. back in 1997.. and it didn't sound anything like the first he'd had. At least he was invited to comment). What we see is not driven by best practice, the incursions aren't necessary for management purposes, for management (aka political) purposes, it's just the same old greeds- reshaped and reworded, 're-imagined'. Were just waiting for such a degraded integrity on a government level, as there will always be proponents ready to align or re-align their view of these places.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby cradlespirit » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 7:35 pm

This use to be on the Riverfly website but when a company no longer believes in it's own words, well they remove that page. You think they would stand by the two key values it list as being important for the World Heritage Area with their latest proposal. So much for re-enforcing those values.

https://image.ibb.co/d3fzhH/riverfly_WHA.jpg


Image

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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby vertigrator » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 9:38 am

I wonder how much negative opposition there was for The Tasmanian Walking Company when they proposed their private huts guided walking on the Overland Track. Which also uses choppers to do drops of supplies.
I also wonder how many people still think this has ruined their experience of the Cradle Mountain and Lake St Clair National Park.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby oldpiscator » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 10:12 am

cradlespirit wrote:This use to be on the Riverfly website but when a company no longer believes in it's own words, well they remove that page. You think they would stand by the two key values it list as being important for the World Heritage Area with their latest proposal. So much for re-enforcing those values.

https://image.ibb.co/d3fzhH/riverfly_WHA.jpg


Image

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Amazing how much someones values can change in a couple of years. Of course financial gain would have nothing to do with it :cry:
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby tastrax » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 12:37 pm

I just posted that back on their facebook page with the question - Do you still believe in these World heritage Values?

Nice pickup cradlespirit!
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby tastrax » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 1:33 pm

I think this is the full article in which the full WHA values were expressed.

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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Richard W » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 1:36 pm

I wonder how much negative opposition there was for The Tasmanian Walking Company when they proposed their private huts guided walking on the Overland Track. Which also uses choppers to do drops of supplies.


The overland track was already formed and popular when the private huts were established.

The area where this camp will be built does not even have any tracks at all at present.

Also, this proposal is to fly people in by helicopter ever four days- not just supplies.

Stage 2 of the proposal is to build new tracks to Mount Oana and Mary's Tarn, again, where there are currently not even foot pads.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Richard W » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 1:37 pm

I think this is the full article in which the full WHA values were expressed


That's a brilliant find- will definitely feature prominently in my submission.

Fancy saying there are no alternatives to building a luxury camp on Halls Island and flying people there by helicopter when he has had all these great alternatives all along!
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Nuts » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 2:09 pm

The proponents words are gold, a submission right there!



vertigrator wrote:I wonder how much negative opposition there was for The Tasmanian Walking Company when they proposed their private huts guided walking on the Overland Track. Which also uses choppers to do drops of supplies.
I also wonder how many people still think this has ruined their experience of the Cradle Mountain and Lake St Clair National Park.


There was opposition to the 4 huts.

'Ruined' At what point is it 'ruined'? Most people will have no idea whether the experience has even changed. :(
Especially so if they're among the ones who don't get the opportunity, as they are increasingly excluded at the expense of more decadent bums requiring more comfy seats.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby tastrax » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 2:13 pm

Richard W wrote:Stage 2 of the proposal is to build new tracks to Mount Oana and Mary's Tarn, again, where there are currently not even foot pads.


Where is the documentation on stage 2?
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby taswegian » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 2:23 pm

cradlespirit wrote:This use to be on the Riverfly website

Looks like his website got Hacked!!

Such words of wisdom from a renowned eco tourist with industry’s top accolade, The 2016 Qantas Australian Tourism Award must surely carry some weight into why this area should be further protected.

As to "vertigrator wrote:
I wonder how much negative opposition there was for The Tasmanian Walking Company when they proposed their private huts guided walking on the Overland Track. Which also uses choppers to do drops of supplies.
I also wonder how many people still think this has ruined their experience of the Cradle Mountain and Lake St Clair National Park."
, Nuts is spoton.
Unless you've experienced something as in immersed yourself prior to change, then one really has no idea of what life was like before the change and what is 'normal' now but once wasn't, is a far cry from those earlier, more relaxed times.

I imagine there are few here that knew what it was like to climb all peaks in the Walls over an extended stay and not meet anyone else.

You can't know if you've never experienced.
That goes for all things in life.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Richard W » Thu 12 Apr, 2018 2:40 pm

Where is the documentation on stage 2?


In the secret PWS RAA I suppose.

The EPBC referral refers to Stage 2 being walking tracks to the summit of Mount Oana and to a sensitive aboriginal cultural site, which I assume refers to the petroglyph in the Mary's Tarn area.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby bogholesbuckethats » Fri 13 Apr, 2018 1:38 pm

Just incase anyone is having trouble submitting comments

Invitations for public comment
Referrals
The EPBC Act provides for a public comment period of 10 business days (with no extensions). A decision on whether a proposed action requires approval will be made within 20 business days. The outcome of the decision will be made publicly available on the web site.

The PDF documents which may be accessed via the Invitations to Comment screen are complete copies of the referral.

Please note that all public comments will be considered by the decision-maker. However, we cannot guarantee that all comments will be acknowledged or responded to.

Ensuring your comments are effective
Clearly reference the referral (EPBC number and proposal title) in your submission.
State clearly whether, and how, you believe the proposal would have a significant impact on matters protected by the EPBC Act. The Minister, or their delegate, can only take into account comments, concerns or issues in respect to the specific matters of national environmental significance or matters protected under the EPBC Act. Be specific by stating which aspects of the proposal would impact on matters (e.g. a particular listed species or heritage value).
If you believe the information in the referral is misleading or incorrect, you should state the reasons why and provide correct information, if available.
Give the source of any key information used in reaching your conclusion.
Provide clear contact details if the Department needs to get in touch with you to seek clarification.
Provide comments by the due date. If your comments are going to be late, please contact the Department before the due date, and advise of your intention to provide comment, and the date the comment will be provided. The Department will advise you if the comments can be accepted.
Please note: Submissions may be subject to release under the Freedom of Information Act 1982, and may be provided to third parties for procedural fairness purposes (also known as natural justice).

Public submissions are not normally confidential, however if you wish your submission to be treated by the Department as confidential, please mark it clearly as 'confidential' and provide your reasons for it to be considered as such. The Department will use its best endeavours to deal with the submission accordingly but this does not make it automatically exempt from release.

If you require further information you can contact the Department's Community Information Unit by email ciu@environment.gov.au, or freecall 1800 803 772.

Submitting your comments
Please send your comments quoting the reference number and title of the referral to:

Email: epbc.referrals@environment.gov.au
Fax: 02 6274 1620

Or post to:

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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Richard W » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 7:54 am

Last day to submit comments today.

If you are at all opposed to this, it is well worth sending something to

epbc.referrals@environment.gov.au

Even something short referencing the WHA values that the proposal will damage or put at risk will help.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Nuts » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 2:36 pm

Would have thought the follow up on the proponents original view was newsworthy. That the appropriate level of respect for WHA was being swept aside (and this time not just in political speak). I would have thought wilderness values were at the heart of defence against such proposals. Sent a link to media... who really could have found that themselves.. would have thought.. but haven't seen anything since?
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby stepbystep » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 2:50 pm

No nuts, that's just a gossipy gotcha ... not newsworthy, and certainly not the basis for a fresh article. People are allowed to change their mind, after all isn't that exactly what we hope for in a progressive society...just because Mr Hackett's mind change is based on greed it doesn't make it newsworthy...pressure is ramping up on the subject of development in the reserve system, slowly. It's best to compile a little dossier on each proponent and hit them at the right time. Mr Hackett has been appropriately thwacked...
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Nuts » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 6:55 pm

The proponent doesn't need a thwacking, his re-aligned position does, and yesterday.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Richard W » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 7:26 pm

People are allowed to change their mind, after all isn't that exactly what we hope for in a progressive society..


Sure - I change my mind when the facts change, so should any thinking person.

What facts have changed since 2010 though?

The about-face would make a person question how sincerely held the values were in the first place - or what new values have replaced them.
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby bogholesbuckethats » Thu 19 Apr, 2018 4:35 pm

FYI
Attachments
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 4.32.23 pm.png
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 4.32.23 pm.png (156 KiB) Viewed 2282 times
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Rick » Tue 08 May, 2018 9:03 pm

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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby Nuts » Wed 09 May, 2018 9:03 am

This link isn't allowing access Rick?
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Re: Luxury camp inside Walls of Jerusalem WHA with heli acce

Postby tastrax » Wed 09 May, 2018 5:41 pm

This is what it links to...

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