Mt Anne VS Federation??

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hiya all, Was a previous user but had to create a new account....
Recently did Mt Anne circuit. Was wondering what the final climb of Federation was like in comparison to Mt Anne/ The Notch area?? is it similar in difficulty?? I didnt find Anne too bad at all... but Fedders Scares me a bit.....

Thoughts from those in the know would be great thanks!!!!!

[Azza]

The final climb up Fedder is much longer and way more exposed than Mt Anne.
Difficulty wise if you've done any rock climbing and are comfortable with the exposure its not that difficult.
If heights make you nervous then you probably want to think twice before heading up, most accidents occur on the descent.

I think some of the moves required to get up Mt Anne are harder, but the exposure is the big difference.

[ollster]

Geez Azza,

Dave won't be happy about that pic of him...

[ILUVSWTAS]

Awesome pics and great info thanks very much!!

[sirius Tas]

Great pics.....though after looking at that middle pic....this Mt. is definitely out for me...no hope at all...unless aided by ropes or ladder..lol.

[corvus]

Last time I went rock climbing I fell with thankfully comparative little damage (other than permanent mental and physical scarring) so this is a definite no no for me.
Fantastic pics makes me very envious but now that I am of a certain age I have no regrets and have no wish to be 30 years younger as I can reminice about the Mountains I did ascend

[MrCAMEL]

Instead of sleeping last night when I should have been,
I found some videos that I had not seen posted about before.
They were all pretty awesome and show the hill in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1M3ZN_wxg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCbWq-n9 ... re=related

And a longer part of the first one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXAMXLyn4kg

[sthughes]

Thanks for the pics - but bugger that!

[NickD]

I believe I have found the "correct" way up both of these mountains, and if the correct route is followed on both they are not that bad.
I have compared notes with other mates who've summitted Feders and they went a completely different and more petrifying way than I did. I think a lot of people have gone the wrong way, a way that is still achievable but significantly more brown pantsing. Remember, climbing guides consider the direct ascent no harder than a 5. This is always give and take, but if your climbing whats considered 12+, YOUR PROBABLY GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!!!

[Clownfish]

My feet are aching (my standard physiological response to heights) just looking at those.

[tasadam]

I think some of the moves required to get up Mt Anne are harder, but the exposure is the big difference.

That's what I've heard, but I have only been to Anne so I have nothing more to add.
Feders is on my "want to do" list too. Interesting reading, and viewing. Looks ok to me but you'd want to get the weather right for an ascent attempt.

[farefam]

Have climbed both summits a few times.
The summit of Federation Peak is much more serious than Mt Anne (and the Notch on the way to Mt Lot is easy by comparison).
Federation is a rock climb, it is not a walk or simple scramble. You must know basic rock climbing technique. There are several points where if you fall, you will be killed.
If you are at all uncomfortable with heights do not attempt the summit of Federation Peak.
If you know correct rock-climbing technique and it is dry with not much wind (and definitely no snow or ice) then the Direct Ascent of Federation Peak can be done safely without a safety rope.
However the descent is quite a bit more difficult than the climb up and at least 1 person fell to their death on the descent only a couple of years ago. The most dangerous bit is when you are lowering yourself back onto the narrow ledge shown in the photo elsewhere in this thread. Fall off that ledge and you will die.
In my experience, on a sunny day the view from the top is very nice. But equally, on an overcast, grey day the same view is somewhat underwhelming.
In any case the views from the nearby ridge and tracks are almost as good as the summit view and are far safer. The view from the nearby Devils Thumb is a good example.
Personally I will not bother to climb to the summit of Federation again as I feel the reward is not particularly worth the (potentially fatal) risk of a fall.

[Ent]

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[Tread Lightly]

Great photos and insights! How is it that an image on a screen can give you sweaty palms? Fedder's definitely on my list after doing Mt Anne and the circuit last November - if only to attempt to apply the 'matter over mind' principle.

[whynotwalk]

Morning all - I'm currently writing a book that includes a description of my walk to Federation in 1991. I thought it may be relevant or of interest to some, so here's a cut & paste of one draft section.

cheers

Peter


The Direct Ascent

Direct Ascent of Federation Peak, Thursday February 7th, 1991

The tower of Federation is made of quartzite, an ancient sedimentary rock that’s been baked and tilted and contorted into a quartz-rich metamorphic marvel. Tough, grey, and shot through with cross veins and clots of pure white quartz, walkers and climbers find it strong but abrasive. I’d met this rasping quality first hand during six days of scrambling in the nearby Western Arthur Range. On that trip my white-gold wedding band was given a newly-brushed look, albeit a shoddy one.

The Direct Ascent zigzags up near-vertical quartzite by way of fissures and minor gullies that have been gouged and plucked out of by the action of ice. There has been minimal human reshaping of the hard-to-mark rock, and this combines with the numerous dead-end fissures and false leads to make route finding difficult. Not all of the ice action dates back to the Ice Ages. Ice and snow can hit this peak at any time of the year. Its closeness to the Southern Ocean places it in the direct path of cool and moist air, which rises and cools further on meeting these obstacles. Hail, sleet and snow often result.

But today the wind is fetching in from further afield, and for the moment it’s mild and dry. And although we can hear and feel it, Jim’s wind prediction is so far holding out. Other faces of the peak are bearing the brunt, with only flurries ruffling this section. That’s just as well, because we’re having enough difficulty finding foot and hand holds and a tenable route without also being buffeted by wind. Jim is behind me as I lead up the first gully or two, but the pair of us are soon at a loss for a way ahead. Bill and the Doc join us and we each scan the rock wall for the route. The other three wait nervously below us, possibly losing what little confidence we may have managed to instil into them.

For rock climbers there are sure to be other options here, but for bushwalkers like us, there’s only the one ascent route. We keep searching for it, our anxiety heading in the direction of panic. Then Bill calls out that he’s seen a cairn above him. He checks it out, then calls us up. We’ve been looking straight above us, but Bill has found that the route traverses to the right, crossing a horribly steep bulge of rock before again disappearing upwards.

We decide to deploy our length of rope. I suspect this is more about allaying the fears of the inexperienced – and possibly justifying Jim bothering to bring it – than it’s about safety. None of us really knows about knots or belaying, and Bill jokes that he thought a karabiner was a West Indian head covering. Yes, in my twenties I had done a little climbing, and had even abseiled down the huge vertical cliffs on Sydney Harbour’s North Head. But that was more about blind trust than skill. Also it involved going down not up, and it was with an experienced leader/climber.

Anyway, whatever the shortcomings of our strategy, we get out the rope and Bill takes it up to look for something suitable to secure it to. Jim and I follow, choosing to ignore the rope and trust the rock. I’m concentrating too much on my own climbing to notice whether anyone actually uses the so-called safety line. There’s one particular spot which is a bit of stretch for me, but which Jim, a shorter man, finds quite difficult. After a long nervous look at it, I reach across a shoulder of rock. It offers scant handholds. Before I have any sense of security for my hands I have to extend one foot across and down in search of what can only be described as a tenuous foothold. Jim follows close behind, stabbing his right foot out two or three times and making some inarticulate semi-panic noises before I reach back and physically guide it into the appropriate spot. Margaret comes up behind in time to support his other foot, and with a final grunt he wobbles across to my side. We shuffle along far enough for Marg to follow. I notice we’re all breathing shallowly, quickly, but we press on after Bill before panic can freeze us to this particularly inhospitable spot. Indecision, even thinking itself, seem to be enemies here.

But I also start to find a certain rhythm to ascending, and that it pays to move with that. Hand up, grip, breathe, heave, foot up, test, rest, breathe, push off, reach again. Under this regime I’m surprised to find fear and uncertainty settling like compliant dogs. While they’re sleeping, I keep climbing until I hear an unexpected whoop of joy from Bill. He’s just out of view over a small rise, but he must have got a view of the top. We heave up over the last knob to see a grinning, wind-blown Bill gesturing wildly towards the top. It looks to be only an easy 100 metres away.

[Ent]

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[tasadam]

It looks to be only an easy 100 metres away.

100 metres is a long way when it's straight up!
I can't wait to read about the trip down again...

As the sun was on the plane window, these images don't really do it justice but I can tell you that the whole southwest looked so beautiful from the air, I might just quietly have had a bit of a tear in my eye as I was taking these.

Air 1

Air 2

Air 3

Is it possible to see the way up in any of these images?

[Ent]

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[eggs]

I am yet to get to Federation, but in my experience when scrambling on rock, going up is the easier part.
Going down with that exposure looks terrifying, but given some current trip planning its a case of will I or won't I, will I or won't I??
And you may only have second thoughts after you have got up - and then what choice do you have - you've got to go down!
Of course, the weather may put paid to any worries like that?

I love these photos & would love to get them in full size?
With that last one, surely the big gully directly below is the infamous "Geeves Gully"
If so, then the direct route must end its really hairy bit when it enters it from the left almost at the top (where there is a gap in the left side of the gully?

The rockclimbers website has the following description of this climb:
Start about half way along the Southern Traverse at a large cairn on top of the 'broad buttress'. Follow cairns directly up the slope to the foot of a rocky step in the gully above. Climb this by traversing up left then right up the ramp. About 10m higher up, the track leads left out of the gully across steep rock into the next short gully. Climb steeply up this gully for 30m then follow the steep ridge up right for another 20m. Above sheer rock walls bar the way. The route heads right to the foot of a rocky wall. Climb steeply up the comer on the left of the wall then follow the ledge right and climb the shallow groove in the centre of the wall to the grassy ramp above. Continue up the ramp into the top of Geeves Gully. Climb the gully to the ridge crest and follow the left ridge to the roomy summit and log book.

PS - I reckon you can see the Southern Traverse track in the second photo - a bit of a white line against the scrub

[eggs]

NickD

I noticed you are suggesting a number of routes that could be taken.
Does this description from the http://www.thesarvo.com climbers site tally with your thoughts?

[whynotwalk]

By popular demand ... well, Adam sounded a bit interested! ... here's the description of our descent from Federation in 1991,

cheers

Peter

____________________________________________________________

Getting Down

Federation Peak to Bechervaise Plateau, Thursday February 7th, 1991

Some cheery soul has told us that 7 out of 10 mountain climbing deaths happen on the descent. Clearly going down is more dangerous than going up, but is it more difficult? Early in the walk we’d had a dispassionate discussion about just this. We had various theories. Some of us had argued that climbers must relax too much after summiting; others that they just become exhausted after the exertions of the climb. I wondered whether they simply couldn’t see as easily where they were going during the descent. I theorised that lowering yourself tentatively is a lot more fraught than reaching up tentatively. The former has a serious point-of-no-return that the latter lacks.

As I reach the lip of the summit block such thoughts are my unwelcome companions. But looking over the edge and down to Lake Geeves, some 600m below, makes it anything but theoretical. Suddenly the third person “they” becomes first person “we”. In fact the climbing arrangements make it first person singular for me, as I’m voted the last one off the mountain: the rope-holder and rope-bearer. That North Head abseiling boast has come back to haunt me!

The problem with being last off is that you have to sit and watch everyone else get nervous at every single obstacle. Much of the time we’re not using the rope, as there’s too much traversing to make it useful. So I have little to do but wait and watch. In the fertile ground of inaction, my own nerves grow rapidly. Each problem is magnified as I see others struggle with it. The butterflies in my stomach reach eagle proportions. The nearest I can get to action is to advise from on high. I revert to this now as Bill, who’s leading, meets one of the serious bits of the descent. We’ve all turned face towards the rock, so Bill’s finding it difficult to locate the correct foot placement. As he’s below me at a slant, I have a reasonable view of where he should be going. I call down instructions, conscious of keeping a steady voice, of not frightening the horses. But the wind is roaring, and a soft voice is useless, so I doubt that my tone is as reassuring as I intend. Bill, then Margaret and the Doc, negotiate the difficult drop slowly, faultingly. But in the end there’s not too much panic. They then turn and guide Natalie and Peter down, and it’s their turn to try and sound confident. Jim and I are pretty much out of earshot by now, and cooling off while we wait. Or perhaps we’re shivering from nerves.

Eventually we too get to descend. If it’s a climbing test, we probably rate a terminating pass. And even then not without praying a prayer that’s only marginally more articulate than “God save us!” I think I specify my need for strength and wisdom, a self-centred and preservationist prayer perhaps, but nonetheless a crie-de-coeur. My old climbing instructor had hammered into me that “knees are for praying, not for rock climbing”. Never the purist, I am using my knees at almost every opportunity on this scraping and scrambling descent. But if I disregard his rule, I at least remember to pray. And not only on the several hairy sections of the descent, but also during some of the long waits in beautiful and terrifying places. If God is both Maker and Protector, it’s as well to remind him you appreciate both!

[stoogest]

Great writeup. I'm definitely interested in reading more as it becomes available (no way I'm ever going up Fed though )!

[tas-man]

Fantastic closeups of Fedder, Tasadam. If you will pardon my taking liberties with your images, I have cropped and adjusted two from your flypast images to create a stereo pair that gives an even more amazing stereo 3D effect when viewed crosseyed. IE, view right image with left eye, and left image with right eye (like going crosseyed) then once the images have merged, keep your attention on part of the merged image and re-focus on that part of the photo until the whole peak leaps out in 3D.

[tasadam]

Another trick to getting the 3D effect to work is to use two pieces of paper or better, dark cardboard. One in each hand.
Close your left eye, hold the right-hand cardboard about 6 inches (no more) from your face so it blocks off the left image.
Hold it steady, close your right eye, hold the left cardboard so you can only see the right image.
(If the cardboard for one image is blocking the other image for the other eye, move them closer to your face.)
Then open both eyes and focus on an imaginary point between the bits of cardboard - you should see a blurry image of one peak in the background.
The trick is to remain cross-eyed and bring the image in the background into focus.
It feels at first like you're doing totally BAD things to your eyes but they come right.
Once the image in the background comes in to focus, you will be amazed!
If the images in the background does not line up properly you might need to tilt your head slightly one way or the other (works for me).

To do it without cardboard (I used my hands to make it easier), you can just go cross-eyed by focussing on a point just in front of your face - the correct point to focus on is when you see 3 blurry images in the background and then you just need to concentrate on the middle one and bring it into focus while remaining cross-eyed. Concentrate on a part of the image that has high contrast, it seems easier.

[Taurë-rana]

Did we find an easy route up and down? Was I just too young and silly to be scared? I was told that there was a stretch on the ledge bit that there was no way I'd be able to reach, and that ropes were essential. I just don't remember it being that hard. Very exposed, but very grippy rock, except in the gully. I wouldn't mind going back, maybe next summer?

[tasadam]

Did we find an easy route up and down? Was I just too young and silly to be scared? I was told that there was a stretch on the ledge bit that there was no way I'd be able to reach, and that ropes were essential. I just don't remember it being that hard. Very exposed, but very grippy rock, except in the gully. I wouldn't mind going back, maybe next summer?

It's being worked on, stay tuned...

[MichaelP]

both are on my to do list. looks scary but im keen....

[Steve]

Another trick to getting the 3D effect to work is..

..to have a mirror like surface on either side of the cardboard. The more reflective the better.

[Singe]

Fantastic closeups of Fedder, Tasadam. If you will pardon my taking liberties with your images, I have cropped and adjusted two from your flypast images to create a stereo pair that gives an even more amazing stereo 3D effect when viewed crosseyed. IE, view right image with left eye, and left image with right eye (like going crosseyed) then once the images have merged, keep your attention on part of the merged image and re-focus on that part of the photo until the whole peak leaps out in 3D.

Well, I still can't see it... but at least trying kept me distracted from the photos of the final climb for long enough to get my pulse rate back down!

I'm with Brett and stoogest on this one - I'll admire it from afar

[tasadam]

My computer's hooked up to a 40" screen at the moment, and I just tried it again while sitting about 18 inches away... My eyes now hurt!