For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion.
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For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Scottyk » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 9:59 am

http://www.premier.tas.gov.au/releases/ ... _for_ideas

Anyone know where the likely developments will occur?
I really think this will be the thin end of the wedge. "just these few developments" and then 10 years later "just a few more" and then before we know it we'll have helipads a and eco resorts everywhere.
I think it is bad news for Tassie bushwalkers
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby ILUVSWTAS » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 10:11 am

Scottyk wrote:

I think it is bad news for Tassie bushwalkers



We knew that from the day this government got elected. :(
Nothing to see here.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby north-north-west » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 10:30 am

Someone please find me a safe cave to go and hide in . . .
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Mechanic-AL » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 11:00 am

Can someone please help me get my head around this? Will Hodgeman, the man who would like to see more areas of World Heritage Wilderness opened up tourism developments, is he the same Will Hodgeman who is in favour of revoking 74 000 hectares of World Heritage listed forest? Or is there more than one Will Hodgeman down there?

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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby gayet » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 11:08 am

How about a "compromise" of sorts?
Leave the 74,000 hectares in the WHA but allow the "required"tourist development in those areas only and further limit the development to the areas claimed to be the most degraded? Raise the minimum environmental protection requirements for such developments to ensure that there is no leaching into neighbouring non-degraded areas and it might achieve something useful.....

NB> I am not in favour of delisting nor am I in favour tourist developments in wilderness areas.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Scottyk » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 11:20 am

I suspect that there is already some preliminary "off the books" proposals on the premiers desk. These would likely have been put to him, along with a nice party donation before the election.
If they want to build a tourism development then they should buy some land at market price and do what ever they want with it, not get access to unspoilt wilderness they don't have to buy.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby devoswitch » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 2:55 pm

It's such a shame. The 74000ha debate and media coverage of it is just to pull the wool over everyone's eyes as it's the 400000ha if pristine bush which they are taking and don't want anyone to kick up a fuss about :
http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasma ... 6877604004
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Turfa » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 4:50 pm

This is a real dilemma....Tasmania needs to support itself, but a subsidised forestry industry is about the worst solution I could think of ! .....but if it goes, what will replace the income & jobs it creates in the local economy ? Tourism would seem to be one option given the natural beauty of much of the state. However the sad truth is that people like me (and probably most other members of this forum) don't want huts, toilets, signs, etc. (or track fees :wink: ) and would contribute very little to the local economy if the wildeness was managed the way we would like it to be (ie. leave it just the way it is)

Unfortunately some development & infrastructure seems to be necessary to attract the paying guests, especially from overseas.
How do we balance those conflicting needs in a sustainable way ?????
I would be really interested to hear from the locals about what you think the best solution is.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Sun 22 Jun, 2014 9:21 pm

No- It's a bad bad thing! All the accommodation at Cradle Mt carves a very nice slice of the pie with no need for infrastructure inside the park :?
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby DanShell » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 12:43 am

This is going to be an unpopular post but I support the suggestion to at least look at possibilities of opening up areas that are otherwise inaccessible for the world to enjoy.
If it is done in an appropriate and responsible manner, all parties can agree and its as low impact as possible and creates a better economy for the state while show casing another beautiful little pocket of our state then I'm happy to see it go ahead.
I know none of us want to see crowds and development in the wilderness but there is definitely room for better promotion of tourism into the state based on our greatest asset, the beautiful landscape.
I'm not suggesting that we turn more great walks into another overland style track but surely ideas such as the air walks and nicer camping areas with some basic facilities in certain areas can't hurt if it's limited?

Just my opinion of course. :)
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby gayet » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 7:58 am

DanShell wrote:.... of opening up areas that are otherwise inaccessible for the world to enjoy.
....


HI

I understand where you are coming from but the problem with opening up areas is that they are no longer wilderness, nor are they safe from further spreading degradation. Opening up otherwise inaccessible areas removes most of the protection for those areas. Keep the development in areas that already have some infrastructure for the "drive to a lookout and take a photo" types. Improve information regarding access to less remote areas, perhaps provide larger carparks with camping sites nearby. Those that want to walk in for a few days and then back can do so but don't start littering the remote routes with tourist facilities. The people most interested in those areas are interested because of their remoteness and difficulty in access and being away from the chattering hordes.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 8:09 am

Scottyk wrote:I really think this will be the thin end of the wedge.

Of course it'll be! Once one sees money making opportunity, there'll be a flood of others until the place is ruined. That's the nature of the money world. So the question is, how did the government get elected? What's the will of the Tasmanians?
Just move it!
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Turfa » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 8:31 am

GPSGuided wrote:
Scottyk wrote:I really think this will be the thin end of the wedge.

Of course it'll be! Once one sees money making opportunity, there'll be a flood of others until the place is ruined. That's the nature of the money world. So the question is, how did the government get elected? What's the will of the Tasmanians?


Yes, that was my question...if Tasmania is to develop a larger tourism industry (and it does need to do something to generate more economic activity), how do you think it should be done ? Given that there will need to be more people, doing more activities, in more places (and not just low impact, low $ bushwalking). What do you think should be done & where ?
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby stepbystep » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 9:00 am

One thing that really sh*ts me is talk of "will of the people", "what do Tasmanians really want", "government mandate". It's all utter bollocks. The job of government is to look after the long term interests of the state and it's people. My dogs would vote to eat all the food in the fridge right now if I let them, but what would they eat tomorrow, if in fact they didn't explode today???

There is SO MUCH potential to tastefully develop on the fringes of the WHA and other areas. The Tarkine being an absolute prime example. A group of us recently camped at Lake Rosebery for 3 nights, wonderful spot, horrible/no facilities. Each day we did great day trips in the area, spent money at the Tullah pub and store...I could camp there for a month and do something different everyday. I could name hundreds of sites/roads/communities that with some improvements and attractions would help areas develop. Long term.

I would like to see far better access to some key locations for people with disabilities and the aged. That does not mean 'opening up' new areas, just improving access to some.

The government does not have the bravery and foresight to do the grassroots community work that can build sustainable local businesses. Instead it's all about exclusivity of access to corporate donors. Be they miners, forestry contractors or tourism goliaths. We ALREADY have amazing access to our wild places, unlike anywhere I know. I'm really afraid of what little Will and his cronies will come up with.

PS How good was Dark Mofo? The comment was made Saturday night. "Half of Hobart is here tonight, but so is half of Melbourne"...amazing what some creative thinking can do...
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Scottyk » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 10:16 am

stepbystep wrote:One thing that really sh*ts me is talk of "will of the people", "what do Tasmanians really want", "government mandate". It's all utter bollocks. The job of government is to look after the long term interests of the state and it's people. My dogs would vote to eat all the food in the fridge right now if I let them, but what would they eat tomorrow, if in fact they didn't explode today???



Ha Ha :lol:

I couldn't agree more with your post sbs

Cradle mountain is an excellent model for what can be done without having resorts inside the world heritage area.

Dan Shell, we really aren't talking about access for your average joe, these resort will likely be helicopter in style exclusive fly fishing lodges. Not for the everyday Tasmanian
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby DanShell » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 10:35 am

gayet wrote:HI

I understand where you are coming from but the problem with opening up areas is that they are no longer wilderness, nor are they safe from further spreading degradation. Opening up otherwise inaccessible areas removes most of the protection for those areas. Keep the development in areas that already have some infrastructure for the "drive to a lookout and take a photo" types. Improve information regarding access to less remote areas, perhaps provide larger carparks with camping sites nearby. Those that want to walk in for a few days and then back can do so but don't start littering the remote routes with tourist facilities. The people most interested in those areas are interested because of their remoteness and difficulty in access and being away from the chattering hordes.


Yes I agree. More could be done to improve some basic facilities in existing areas (lets face it nearly everywhere is accessible one way or another if you want to see it), I like the idea of improving/creating camping grounds and car parks and provide better information.

Scottyk wrote:Dan Shell, we really aren't talking about access for your average joe, these resort will likely be helicopter in style exclusive fly fishing lodges. Not for the everyday Tasmanian


No, I dont think resort style development in any of Tassies wilderness areas is responsible. We can develop the economy through tourism without destroying the environment.


Would it be fair to say that the whole Cradle Mountain arrangement is a reasonable balance? Yes I know we would prefer the crowds are less and this debate could go on forever but providing its development doesn't grow, is it close to being a good balance between preservation and economical gain for the state? (I have not walked the OLT yet so its difficult for me to comment at this stage)
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:39 am

Hi Danshell, iv'e heard the access thing applied to a road through the south-west.. 'What good is it if people can't see it'.

Following the money- it's in accommodation. Not my area but consider that the least expense for the biggest return is 5 star. The footprint is smallest for the relative return and it will be smallest in appeasing environmental concerns. Still inaccessible, now to those without the money, not necessarily any other impediment. Keep letting the money in, let those with poor vision or a vested interest grab a bit while the political climate is in their favour and there will be an ongoing push for more. The next battles may well herald an era of Tourism wars.
Last edited by Nuts on Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:50 am

Turfa wrote:Yes, that was my question...if Tasmania is to develop a larger tourism industry (and it does need to do something to generate more economic activity), how do you think it should be done ? Given that there will need to be more people, doing more activities, in more places (and not just low impact, low $ bushwalking). What do you think should be done & where ?

Indeed! That's the question isn't it, one that's being faced by so many coummunities, governments and countries. In a democratic society, it's really a majority rules issue. The best solution to such really is to influence our fellow citizen. For the governments and politicians, there's too much vested interests to achieve a legitimate decision. But when faced with a ground swell of "people power" over these issues, then decisions will be overturned and appropriate actions made. Sad is, a good portion of the society only wants money to their own pocket - Wallet politics.
Just move it!
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby DanShell » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:54 am

GPSGuided wrote:
Turfa wrote:. Sad is, a good portion of the society only wants money to their own pocket - Wallet politics.


Perhaps we can all be guilty of this at some stage in life however I will leave behind my children and grandchildren etc so my priority in life is to see that they have some sort of future to look forward to as well and Im not just talking financially ;)
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:54 am

stepbystep wrote:One thing that really sh*ts me is talk of "will of the people", "what do Tasmanians really want", "government mandate". It's all utter bollocks.

After the society has been brain washed for so long on the perfect democracy and people's rights, are you also agreeing that people can be selfish and shortsighted and strict democracy may not be the best form of political structure and governance? I don't disagree with you there. But suspect it'll take a while for Western countries to accept this criticism.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:59 am

DanShell wrote:We can develop the economy through tourism without destroying the environment.

I really think this kind of statement is an oxymoron (not directed at you). Develop tourism would equal abnormal human and industrial penetration and will always have an effect on the environment. "Destruction" really is a relative term. At the end of the day, it really is a case of compromises, between the level of "destruction" we tolerate and the potential economic gains. It's a continuous spectrum.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby DanShell » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 12:05 pm

GPSGuided wrote:
DanShell wrote:We can develop the economy through tourism without destroying the environment.

I really think this kind of statement is an oxymoron (not directed at you). Develop tourism would equal abnormal human and industrial penetration and will always have an effect on the environment. "Destruction" really is a relative term. At the end of the day, it really is a case of compromises, between the level of "destruction" we tolerate and the potential economic gains. It's a continuous spectrum.



I agree, and that is the balance we must find.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 12:44 pm

DanShell wrote:I agree, and that is the balance we must find.

Or rather, a balance we must all agree to. A consensus. As with all these, cycle theory applies, causing decisions to swing from one extreme to another through successive political cycles.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby north-north-west » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 1:26 pm

stepbystep wrote:One thing that really sh*ts me is talk of "will of the people", "what do Tasmanians really want", "government mandate". It's all utter bollocks. The job of government is to look after the long term interests of the state and it's people. My dogs would vote to eat all the food in the fridge right now if I let them, but what would they eat tomorrow, if in fact they didn't explode today???

You. If you're lucky, they'd kill you first.

There is SO MUCH potential to tastefully develop on the fringes of the WHA and other areas. The Tarkine being an absolute prime example. A group of us recently camped at Lake Rosebery for 3 nights, wonderful spot, horrible/no facilities. Each day we did great day trips in the area, spent money at the Tullah pub and store...I could camp there for a month and do something different everyday. I could name hundreds of sites/roads/communities that with some improvements and attractions would help areas develop. Long term.

Indeed. One can see a great deal with daytrips into an area from anything up to and including 5-star accommodation on its boundary. There is no need to stuff up what people are supposedly coming to see by smothering it with concrete.

I would like to see far better access to some key locations for people with disabilities and the aged. That does not mean 'opening up' new areas, just improving access to some.

Fair enough. There really isn't that much when one thinks about it. Even the Dove Lake circuit isn't wheelchair friendly.
Still, I'd settle for a new pair of knees.

The government does not have the bravery and foresight to do the grassroots community work that can build sustainable local businesses. Instead it's all about exclusivity of access to corporate donors. Be they miners, forestry contractors or tourism goliaths.

Has any government, anywhere, anytime? Is it possible with our system, given the compromises that must be made to gain and retain political power?

We ALREADY have amazing access to our wild places, unlike anywhere I know. I'm really afraid of what little Will and his cronies will come up with.

They'll do what Bailleau's mob did in Victoria - announce the tendering process while having some secret deals already in process. The kunanyi/Wellington cablecar will be nothing but a pimple compared to what they'd like to do.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby headwerkn » Mon 23 Jun, 2014 11:39 pm

I think it is perfectly possible to set up small scale but effective/attractive accommodation infrastructure within such areas without totalling the place. "Development" doesn't automatically mean an exclusive/expensive Sapphire-type resort dumped in the middle of the WHA.

Case in point - Dan Hackett's Wilderness Huts at Lake Ina (http://riverfly.com.au/western-lakes-tasmania-huts/). Dan had to pass a-million-and-one environmental regulations to get permission to set up these non-permanent shelters, as well as cop a lot of uninformed nonsense from the fly fishing community.... waste from the toilet is choppered out regularly, visitor numbers are strictly regulated, etc. Alas, the cost of a few days out there is a bit rich for my wallet (for now anyway), but from all reports it's well worth the $$$ for those who've parted with their money.

Dan and Simone have created a totally unique experience to help share an exceptionally awesome part of the state that otherwise required the time and physical ability to hump it in.

I think it is all too easy for 'people like us' to forget that not everyone has the fitness, knees, backs or spare time to do multi-day bushwalks everywhere. That doesn't mean we need wheelchair compatible paths and shuttle buses to everywhere, but just because someone is less able doesn't mean they're less entitled to enjoy a taste of our great wilderness areas.

As for tourism being Tassie's economic saviour... well, without derailing things totally, let's just say that it'll take more than some Batman lights in Hobart to improve visitor numbers over winter ;-) Simply getting to the state in summer is problematic enough....

Cheers, Ben.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby walkabout » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 8:17 am

Finally some good news - no heritage de-listing :D
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 8:28 am

headwerkn wrote:Case in point - Dan Hackett's Wilderness Huts at Lake Ina (http://riverfly.com.au/western-lakes-tasmania-huts/)... Alas, the cost of a few days out there is a bit rich for my wallet (for now anyway), but from all reports it's well worth the $$$ for those who've parted with their money.

I am not sure these elite developments are in the interest of the society at large. Whilst they return bang for the buck for the investors, it's socially backwards. To open such an area up, it really should be affordable to as many in the society as possible, not just big spending foreign tourists. But it's true, Eco-friendliness can be expensive and those resort styled accommodations are just lovely to stay in.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Scottyk » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 2:01 pm

headwerkn wrote:
I think it is all too easy for 'people like us' to forget that not everyone has the fitness, knees, backs or spare time to do multi-day bushwalks everywhere. That doesn't mean we need wheelchair compatible paths and shuttle buses to everywhere, but just because someone is less able doesn't mean they're less entitled to enjoy a taste of our great wilderness areas.


Cheers, Ben.

If this proposal was simply about increasing access for the disabled and frail it would be totally different in my mind. For example if the Dove Lake circuit was made wheel chair friendly that would be great, that won't be happening because there is no big liberal party donor who wants to do that.
This will be exclusive resorts I bet.
Picture helicopter in, resort style huts right in between the Eastern and Western Arthurs. Clients can chopper in and sip champaign with views, do a day walk or two and then chopper out, for a price of course.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby north-north-west » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 4:47 pm

headwerkn wrote:Case in point - Dan Hackett's Wilderness Huts at Lake Ina (http://riverfly.com.au/western-lakes-tasmania-huts/). Dan had to pass a-million-and-one environmental regulations to get permission to set up these non-permanent shelters, as well as cop a lot of uninformed nonsense from the fly fishing community.... waste from the toilet is choppered out regularly, visitor numbers are strictly regulated, etc. Alas, the cost of a few days out there is a bit rich for my wallet (for now anyway)...

This the problem - that's the sort of thing they'll be aiming at, but with exclusive licenses to keep the riff-raff at a distance. It only makes things more accessible if you can afford to pay top dollar for the access and accommodation - for everyone else it'll be Keep Out! or do it the old fashioned way (while dodging choppers full of cashed-up bogans).
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby walkon » Tue 24 Jun, 2014 4:56 pm

fs Tas garage sale

Where do I start, I've got lots on offer. Here goes I must let you know that all items are used some in very good condition, others a bit tarnished. Make an offer as I'm willing to do a deal on almost anything, actually correction everything must go!

Franklin River: bit dirty had big plans at one stage but I seemed to have lost interest in it. Just needs fresh legs to get this one going again.

Frecinet Bay/Overland Track: as the old adage goes it's 'location location location' these high volume lots are prime real estate so hurry these are selling fast. If you get in quick, you too can be a part of these Virgin Bush blocks

Frenchmans Cap: recently refurbished, got rid of the soggy bits. The cap is in good Nick, someone mentioned seeing a hole in it, even supplied photos, but no one can accurately say where it is.

Walks of Jerusalem: some call this the promised land and who am I to disagree. Close to other high profile units on offer

SW Track: renovaters delight, rising damp in various sections. I know I promised the missus that I'd give it a tidy up, a few boards and lick of paint, but you buy it and my problem is solved!

Maria Island: see above re Frec bay and the overland

Any Island: all offers considered, currently buy one get one free sale whilst stocks last

Lakes: we have lots of lakes on offer. Some are even lakes upon lakes so you get two for the price of one. Currently 40% off rrp, members discount a further 15% off, clearance stock excluded.

Western Aurthers: had been described as Gods own country. I think that's because when you are walking around there is like 'God why is this hill so steep' haa haa gee I'm funny sometimes. Huge potential here, lots of rocks ideal quarry location.

Three types of forest: State, National and WHA, though the later has caused me some heartburn of late. Actually they all have really so here is the deal. Under our loyalty program, the more you spend, you get first right of refusal on any lot. Plus that's not all, we will pay you subsidies because your business is important to us.

Other incidentals: sandstone shack in Salamanca, currently surplus to requirements. To big as a three room buildng is more in keeping with our business now days
Cheers Walkon

"I live in a very small house, but my windows look out on a very large world."
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walkon
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