For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion.
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Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Tue 11 Sep, 2018 6:40 pm

Yes, that is gross mismanagement 2HT. Any semblance of 'sustainable development' wouldn't skip public funding and go straight to the end game. Management planning is just a hurdle to remove. Get set for the post match where the state government will even just disregard minimal impact all together in looking to fund an entirely new track (somewhere.. with 20mil of their hard earned..). I'm sure proponents of development have stumbled upon this perfect opportunity in which they even have 'conservationists' proposing new tracks for them. Sniggering at the thought bushwalkers expect there'll be some sort of reprieve from mining or forestry. That is not an intention at all. And it may be a long time before the weight of tourist numbers leads to any meaningful reduced impact as a sneaky consequence. Evidence suggests our agents will even approve a new track for exclusive huts only... why wouldn't they?

Meanwhile derision between conservationist groups will continue to work in developers favour, like playing 'one man down'.

If it was as easy as calling for a Ta Ann style boycott of private developments in public reserves.. but it's not, even some die hard bushwalkers and conservationists don't see any real issue (or didn't, like Bob, they may be coming around to at least acknowledge their choices). And detached tourists everywhere will follow each other without question, tick-lists in hand. Any second thoughts, well too late for those places or ideals that are already lost. Forever.
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby warnesy » Wed 12 Sep, 2018 11:03 am

For those passionate about protecting the Western Lakes World Heritage Area, and against helicopter access into the area you may be interested in the newly created Facebook site below.

https://m.facebook.com/FAWAHATas/?ref=bookmarks
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby potato » Wed 12 Sep, 2018 11:40 am

Nuts wrote: If it was as easy as calling for a Ta Ann style boycott of private developments in public reserves.. but it's not, even some die hard bushwalkers and conservationists don't see any real issue (or didn't, like Bob, they may be coming around to at least acknowledge their choices). And detached tourists everywhere will follow each other without question, tick-lists in hand. Any second thoughts, well too late for those places or ideals that are already lost. Forever.


This is interesting bit for me - those walkers and alike who don't see much of an issue in these tourism proposals. Maybe they can afford it and want to visit these areas with less effort... I don't understand that. Wilderness is an uncultivated, uninhabited, and inhospitable area that is maintained in that state for all. When you put huts in, fly around in helicopters and cut tracks it is no longer wilderness.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Thu 13 Sep, 2018 4:17 pm

Thanks warnesy, i'll sign any petition they wish to generate. Choppers service the guided huts, them too.

Potato, i'm at a loss. There are some compelling reasons for suffering development but their facts just don't hold water.
And, we shouldn't loose sight of critical analysis and rational thought, aside from that of others or collectives of others. Keeping out private development altogether, its a very purist position but it's entirely well placed. Politics / politicians, they get far too much weight and too much say in such precious things. 'Now is so soon a distant past'.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Paul » Tue 18 Sep, 2018 12:37 pm

Is it correct that a Development Application has to be lodged with Local Government for this proposal to proceed further ?

If so, it is members of Local Government that we all need to lobby against the Development Application. Maybe we can make this one the same as the protest against the Franklin Dam. I'll be there.

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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Tue 18 Sep, 2018 5:43 pm

I'm sure they'd be subject to planning permission. Was wondering if there was any legality in the fact they degrade the value/condition of/primary function of surrounding land/ landholders, ie. wilderness WHA/ The public.. clutching at straws perhaps.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 3:18 pm

Iv'e spent some time trawling through recent Central Highlands Council minutes and agendas and didn't find any reference so far. Could be hidden in closed sessions, I could have missed something (not a lot of patience/time for such distractions).
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby weetbix456 » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 9:11 am

Anyone got an update about the Lake Rodway "base camp" hut proposal or the SCT??? Google search is not leaving me with much - either that or I can't break into the Mercury pages. Let's just say I don't trust that there is no new development or inner-workings behind the scenes going on!!
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby stepbystep » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 10:38 am

Press release yesterday....my money is that their money will go to the SCT to get the track up to spec for Ian Johnstone's abomination. Or perhaps the Walls....

27 September 2018

Will Hodgman, Premier & Minister for Parks
Tasmania’s Next Iconic Walk
The call is out to find Tasmania’s next world-class walking experience.

The Hodgman Liberal Government will invest up to $20 million to deliver Tasmania’s next iconic multi-day, hut-based walk, and submissions are now open to determine where it will be.

The Overland and Three Capes Tracks have captured the world’s attention and are a major drawcard for the increasing number of local and visiting walkers who want to experience our unrivalled wilderness.

Our plan is to deliver the next iconic walking experience in another region, and to help make our visitors stay longer, see more of the state, and spend more while they are here.

The submissions process will give communities, tourism operators and anyone with an interest the opportunity to put forward their ideas.

Advertisements will be placed in papers this weekend seeking submissions on the Next Iconic Walk and submissions will be open until 24 November 2018.

Tasmania now has a strong reputation for providing high quality eco-tourism experiences, and we are planning to take it to the next level.

Contact: Andrew Hudgson

Phone: 0439 083 275
The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders ~ Edward Abbey
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby johnrs » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 11:40 am

There goes the the South Coast Track
I wish somone would throw $20 m of public money at my community business and let me take the profits.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Warin » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 1:41 pm

Why not make a 'new' track? :twisted:

E.G. On the west coast. I mean on the coast .. where the sea breeze blows through you.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby weetbix456 » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 4:05 pm

Thanks SBS..yeaaa right when all seems quiet!! I at least heard rumours that TWC were not pursuing their own version of the SCT hut based venture, very concerned however about their push into Frenchman's, Walls & Rodway. I feel for the small companies that run successful tent based tours in all of those mentioned areas already.

I agree Warin - new west coast (Tarkine) track = new national park or conservation area?? If the government was really that concerned with spreading the tourist dollar around the state, and promoting "iconic" Tasmanian ecosystems they would consider this a real opportunity - even backed for the most part by those that would be opposed to new huts elsewhere.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby tastrax » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 4:11 pm

They could resurrect old ideas that are already investigated?

https://www.environment.gov.au/system/f ... -study.pdf
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby tastrax » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 4:23 pm

Maybe they could even implement the strategy they already have!

https://dpipwe.tas.gov.au/Documents/Wal ... 1-2020.pdf
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Mountain Rocket » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 5:07 pm

tastrax wrote:Maybe they could even implement the strategy they already have!

https://dpipwe.tas.gov.au/Documents/Wal ... 1-2020.pdf

I want to face-palm but thanks for sharing this tastrax.

For those wondering what other trackwork you could do with a few million, here is what the current strategy proposes:
fig 7 pg 48.png


Somehow I don't think we'll see a proposal to even spend $2k upgrading tracks at Anne, Mt Field, Port Davey or the WAs. :roll:
Last edited by Mountain Rocket on Fri 28 Sep, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby geoskid » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 6:45 pm

tastrax wrote:Maybe they could even implement the strategy they already have!

https://dpipwe.tas.gov.au/Documents/Wal ... 1-2020.pdf


I have no idea where we are at with regards to implementing that strategy, but isn't the idea that this new iconic walk is separate money - not diverting funds from Parks.
The money to pour into Parks has to come from somewhere - why not from more iconic walks. All the while we have funding needs in Healthcare, Education, Public Infrastructure, Parks will be down the value list - it's just the way it is.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 7:09 pm

Is it true, that 'money pours into parks from iconic walks'?
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby geoskid » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 7:24 pm

Nuts wrote:Is it true, that 'money pours into parks from iconic walks'?


Hi Nuts, been a while :)
Well no, not necessarily of course, but it helps to make the pie bigger.(and can be a negotiating point). And Tassie needs a bigger pie. We are a welfare state, I don't mean individually, I mean we are dependent on the other states. We get handouts from the other states in the GST carve up. It kind of makes boasting about our sweet things when we are subsidised by states that dig *&%$#! out of the ground a bit hollow. We need to stand on our own feet here, and make our own money.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby geoskid » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 7:45 pm

Mountain Rocket wrote:
tastrax wrote:Maybe they could even implement the strategy they already have!

https://dpipwe.tas.gov.au/Documents/Wal ... 1-2020.pdf

I want to face-palm but thanks for sharing this tastrax.

For those wondering what other trackwork you could do with a few million, here is what the current strategy proposes:
fig 7 pg 48.png


Somehow I don't think we'll see a proposal to even spend $2k upgrading tracks at Anne, Mt Field, Port Davey or the WAs. :roll:

G'day Mountain Rocket,
The table you posted shows what spending is needed on already existing walking tracks within Parks. It does suggest to me that until an ongoing funding model is guaranteed that all talk of creating a new very large Tarkine National Park is folly.
I think existing National Parks can be sensitively monetised - and then insist that the money is poured back into existing National Parks
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby stepbystep » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 8:42 pm

If the NP’s got even a moderately fair amount of funding in relation to the money they earn those tracks would be fit for purpose and designed to work with the lowest impact to the environment. ‘New money’ will only erode more and more and more and more. That sir is the folly. Protecting what isn’t yet eroded is paramount to ensuring what is precious about this place is preserved. And if the other states fund us a little so be it, they can come visit anytime. The Tarkine offers a massive pressure release opportunity
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby geoskid » Fri 28 Sep, 2018 9:18 pm

stepbystep wrote:If the NP’s got even a moderately fair amount of funding in relation to the money they earn those tracks would be fit for purpose and designed to work with the lowest impact to the environment. ‘New money’ will only erode more and more and more and more. That sir is the folly. Protecting what isn’t yet eroded is paramount to ensuring what is precious about this place is preserved. And if the other states fund us a little so be it, they can come visit anytime. The Tarkine offers a massive pressure release opportunity

Hang on SBS. Well yeah, nobody said anything about fair - and it's irellevant. How do you think Tas Parks should be adequately funded? You also have to think about Health and Education at a minimum in your answer. No, making a new iconic track does not necessarily erode wilderness. Of course it depends on definitions. Is it a hut in the wilderness, or does a hut magically make the wilderness disapear?
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby tastrax » Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:00 am

stepbystep wrote:The Tarkine offers a massive pressure release opportunity


Alas, there is not much evidence to suggest this will be true in the case of a new track in the area. What generally happens is a track gets to a certain level of development and crowding (ie Overland) and then a new one is developed (Frenchmans, 3 Capes) and the overall numbers increase to a similar 'crowding" level and the cycle starts again, and again, and again. This is especially true when promotion of the opportunities is pushed so heavily. There is generally a slight overflow to other less promoted areas which, from a management point of view, is why you also need a good solid budget for all track maintenance to ensure they don't progressively decline to a state that then requires massive funds for refurbishment.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby north-north-west » Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:48 am

geoskid wrote:I think existing National Parks can be sensitively monetised...


Define "sensitively".
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby bogholesbuckethats » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 10:49 am

Might just be being overly paranoid but I've noticed a significant improvement in state aerial imagery on the LIST for a number of bays along the SW cape (Stephens Bay, Windowpane Bay and New Harbour). I am aware of the proposal for ~6 huts along the SCT but I didn't think that might also include parts of the SWC. Any ideas?
That looks like a pad.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby tastrax » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:23 am

Most of the imagery was taken back in 2015/16 - you can check by turning on the following layer in LISTMap - State Aerial Photo Index

I dont know of any proposals for huts in the area - way too much trackwork to be done before it would appeal to a commercial operator
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby bogholesbuckethats » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:34 am

tastrax wrote:Most of the imagery was taken back in 2015/16 - you can check by turning on the following layer in LISMap - State Aerial Photo Index

I dont know of any proposals for huts in the area - way too much trackwork to be done before it would appeal to a commercial operator


Ah oh I was just being paranoid then. Yes I thought it would require a pretty significant investment. Thanks for that :)
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Nuts » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:55 am

geoskid wrote:
Nuts wrote:Is it true, that 'money pours into parks from iconic walks'?


Hi Nuts, been a while :)
Well no, not necessarily of course, but it helps to make the pie bigger.(and can be a negotiating point). And Tassie needs a bigger pie. We are a welfare state, I don't mean individually, I mean we are dependent on the other states. We get handouts from the other states in the GST carve up. It kind of makes boasting about our sweet things when we are subsidised by states that dig *&%$#! out of the ground a bit hollow. We need to stand on our own feet here, and make our own money.


Indeed :)

And it's probably true that, in this case, money from less fashionable mainland industries could be funding the existence of undeveloped Tassie wilderness.
I also have the view that, as national parks, so be it.

I suspect our parks would be largely self-funding, if remote tracks are expected to- grow the general economy- then we have only seen the start of substantial and ongoing ingress.



For those concerned, it's worth keeping an eye on the list of projects going on to be approved, especially now 'staged' release (a ruse to test the waters) has given way to an open ended EOI process:

https://www.cg.tas.gov.au/home/investme ... m_projects

All we have (who knows what 'negotiations' are taking place?)

I did notice, in announcing the latest successful proposals, the state government terminology is now for 'sensible'... development. 'Sustainable' never made a lot of sense/ suggests, in the case of wilderness, a cap or boundary is/was ever set. Is it 'sensible' development or development sensible? well.. given there's no agreed value for wild places, projects can only be proven sensible in the short term/ for the operators making money / for politicians and their point scoring. In ignorance of any unrealised future value, even if seen as merely a 'resource'.

geoskid wrote: No, making a new iconic track does not necessarily erode wilderness. Of course it depends on definitions. Is it a hut in the wilderness, or does a hut magically make the wilderness disapear?


At some stage the development of The Overland Track set it up for people, often local bushwalkers, to capitulate that the track was 'sacrificial', or 'not wilderness'.. Now, in the mix, the fact that (among these proposals) hut numbers are permitted to double on the track hardly raises an eyebrow. Of course, as generations or decades or casual employees roll on, if we follow trend and allow urban planners/ urban planning driven for political purpose, wilderness will eventually only need look wilder than a suburban park, with a few wildernessey attributes, to be considered 'wilderness' :(

(How to be other than ambivalent over that list of funding shortfalls.. do we really want faster tracks to the outer reaches?)
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby weetbix456 » Sat 13 Oct, 2018 9:36 pm

bogholesbuckethats wrote:Might just be being overly paranoid but I've noticed a significant improvement in state aerial imagery on the LIST for a number of bays along the SW cape (Stephens Bay, Windowpane Bay and New Harbour). I am aware of the proposal for ~6 huts along the SCT but I didn't think that might also include parts of the SWC. Any ideas?


Hmmm...I do hope not!! It would be pretty cheeky to chuck that area into the proposal late - but yep I guess it is technically along the south coast. A recent re-run across the SCT gave me a little more peace of mind that any kind of "dry boot" Three Capes...pffffft...even Overland Track comparative track along that stretch is going to be possible any time soon. There is SO much up and down on the SCT, and a mountain of uncomfortability (mud, roots, vegetation) waiting for the uninitiated walker between huts. Milford creek has been recently bridged - but this makes sense IMO for environmental reasons. Fingers crossed that is how the trend of track work & maintenance continues.
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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby Paul » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 8:47 am

Why not make a 'new' track?


E.G. On the west coast. I mean on the coast .. where the sea breeze blows through you.


Hey Warin,
I agree with your suggestion of a West Coast new track - how about from Bathurst Harbour to Hells Gate. ?

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Re: For Sale - Pristine Tasmanian Wilderness

Postby stepbystep » Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:11 pm

The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders ~ Edward Abbey
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