marker tape removal

NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion.
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NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: marker tape removal

Postby ribuck » Tue 22 Aug, 2017 7:46 am

ofuros wrote:Self removing....Biodegradable flagging tapes.
Wood fibre based, 6-24months before degrading.

In that case I don't see any reason to EVER leave the synthetic stuff in the bush.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby taipan821 » Tue 22 Aug, 2017 7:48 am

ofuros wrote:Self removing....Biodegradable flagging tapes.
Wood fibre based, 6-24months before degrading.

https://prospectors.com.au/collections/ ... 75m-x-25mm

https://www.forestrytools.com.au/index.php?id=149


I'll look into this stuff, see if our unit is happy to use it, thanks for the info!
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby johnf » Thu 14 Sep, 2017 12:48 pm

roysta wrote:I checked out this route for the first time on Sunday. There's still a good deal of tape, but honestly I don't think it's needed. There's a well formed track.

The tape might be the reason there is a track there.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Bushgirl » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 1:39 pm

I don't want to see tape or cairns, thanks. Plastic tape = pollution/littering IMO. Let us all find our own way, and take the bush as we find it. On some Grampians walks there were cairns every few metres or so, where the track was unmistakable - maybe walkers with too much time on their hands.

I too often arrive home with pockets full of pink plastic...but it wasnt me on Waterfall Creek :)
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby neilmny » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 4:05 pm

Bushgirl wrote:I don't want to see tape or cairns, thanks. Plastic tape = pollution/littering IMO. Let us all find our own way, and take the bush as we find it. On some Grampians walks there were cairns every few metres or so, where the track was unmistakable - maybe walkers with too much time on their hands.

I too often arrive home with pockets full of pink plastic...but it wasnt me on Waterfall Creek :)


I think what happens in the Grampians is people do the copy cat thing particularly in the busiest places.
I doubt a lot of the Grampians punters even know what purpose a cairn serves. Near the Balcomnies there was hundereds of "cairns" and it was rediculous.
The rangers came along and busted them up.......... a job well done. People were heard protesting...... :roll:
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Neo » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 4:50 pm

I don't like tape or cairns as they can be misleading. Then the tape becomes litter.

I wouldn't remove tape unless obviously old and weathered. Because someone may be out currently and relying on it for their return.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 5:37 pm

Many people stack cairns for fun or other reasons ie. LEGO in nature. Recall on many NZ pebble beaches and by various streams, there are masses of them. So agree not all are for track marking.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Neo » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 5:53 pm

Yeah, I do mini bush Lego sometimes. Saw a spot between Cairns and Port Douglas, a whole bunch of them on a rocky beach. Was cool and a photo opp for passers by.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby johnw » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 10:45 pm

Neo wrote:I wouldn't remove tape unless obviously old and weathered. Because someone may be out currently and relying on it for their return.

Agree. As a volunteer bush regenerator we largely rely on tape to mark points of entry and exit to off track locations, accessed from along tracks or pads. We do try to keep it out of view, and out of reach. But need to find them again, so it's a compromise. Please don't disturb them. We do remove the tape as we progress but in remote places may not get back to that spot for 6 to 12 months, sometimes longer. Eradicating noxious weeds from the bush is a long slow process that sadly never ends. Sometimes they are also there for legitimate research purposes; don't assume (tape) is always to compensate for someone's poor navigation. Cairns may be a different story.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Huntsman247 » Wed 02 May, 2018 10:10 am

GPSGuided wrote:The only real logic to complete removal of tapes are for virginal look and to keep the tracks hidden from all but those few in the know, be it for selfish or conservation reasons. Safety for noobs is more of a stretched excuse in that mix.
If someone is green enough to be lead astray and gets themselves lost following tape and can't backtrack their way out of it following the tape back... They're probably someone that's going to get lost anyways. [SMIRKING FACE]
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby weeds » Wed 02 May, 2018 12:14 pm

Just wondering if those that remove tape also remove all the introduced weeds, plants, trees and and domestic animals....

I try to ignore tape mainly to hone my nav skills and I generally find more than enough rubbish where people have previously camped and always carry some or all of it out.


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Re: marker tape removal

Postby rcaffin » Wed 02 May, 2018 12:36 pm

Of course, sometimes you get too many cairns.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Nuts » Wed 02 May, 2018 12:38 pm

johnw wrote:
Neo wrote:I wouldn't remove tape unless obviously old and weathered. Because someone may be out currently and relying on it for their return.

Agree. As a volunteer bush regenerator we largely rely on tape to mark points of entry and exit to off track locations, accessed from along tracks or pads. We do try to keep it out of view, and out of reach. But need to find them again, so it's a compromise. Please don't disturb them. We do remove the tape as we progress but in remote places may not get back to that spot for 6 to 12 months, sometimes longer. Eradicating noxious weeds from the bush is a long slow process that sadly never ends. Sometimes they are also there for legitimate research purposes; don't assume (tape) is always to compensate for someone's poor navigation. Cairns may be a different story.



I'm sure with some trivial measure of co-ordination land managers could require the use of printed flagging tape (with a parks logo or such) for any sanctioned use and user group.. It 's possible in a timely degradable form. Anything else could be removed.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 02 May, 2018 1:07 pm

And more of them... Here at Fantail Falls in Mt Aspiring NP, Sth Island, NZ. Some just love them. Knocking these over would get a lot of people quite upset.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby johnw » Wed 02 May, 2018 2:04 pm

Nuts wrote:
johnw wrote:
Neo wrote:I wouldn't remove tape unless obviously old and weathered. Because someone may be out currently and relying on it for their return.

Agree. As a volunteer bush regenerator we largely rely on tape to mark points of entry and exit to off track locations, accessed from along tracks or pads. We do try to keep it out of view, and out of reach. But need to find them again, so it's a compromise. Please don't disturb them. We do remove the tape as we progress but in remote places may not get back to that spot for 6 to 12 months, sometimes longer. Eradicating noxious weeds from the bush is a long slow process that sadly never ends. Sometimes they are also there for legitimate research purposes; don't assume (tape) is always to compensate for someone's poor navigation. Cairns may be a different story.



I'm sure with some trivial measure of co-ordination land managers could require the use of printed flagging tape (with a parks logo or such) for any sanctioned use and user group.. It 's possible in a timely degradable form. Anything else could be removed.

Good practical suggestion Nuts. I think some of the more recent incarnations of tape we've been using may already be biodegradable. Happy to raise the discussion next trip. As you would already know from your own dealings with parks/land managers down there, the obstacles are usually budget and bureaucracy to get anything new introduced. Not impossible, but long winded.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 02 May, 2018 4:03 pm

Realistically, for the cost of making custom tapes, order, supply, distribution, it's probably not worth it unless the department has an excess of disposable funds. At the end of the day, there'll remain to be walkers who put up tapes and others will remove. The world will go on...
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Allchin09 » Thu 03 May, 2018 2:14 am

Is not using a GPS a viable alternative for those such as land managers who need to mark locations?

I can think of a few advantage over taping such as the the additional information that can be associated with a waypoint and the fact it won't degrade with time or be removed by someone who's 'cleaning up' the bush.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby taipan821 » Thu 03 May, 2018 8:41 am

A little update regarding flagging tape.

Queensland State Emergency Service is now issuing degradable flagging tape, normal tape collection conditions still apply
(remove the flagging tape from the area once search is complete)
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby johnw » Thu 03 May, 2018 11:54 am

Allchin09 wrote:Is not using a GPS a viable alternative for those such as land managers who need to mark locations?

I can think of a few advantage over taping such as the the additional information that can be associated with a waypoint and the fact it won't degrade with time or be removed by someone who's 'cleaning up' the bush.

We do use GPS as a backup Alex. Tech solution, so it has some issues - batteries can go flat, and work locations are often at the bottom of steep sided narrow creek gorges, and/or under dense veg cover - can be difficult to get a reliable signal. Also logistics usually require us to split into two or three groups, travel off track through riparian scrub then reconvene later, so more than a single GPS would be needed. Tape is a simple and effective solution in practice. It is used minimally and just needs to be removed when finished, which we do. I don't think the problem is responsible practices by land managers/volunteers, rather those who are using tape for whatever personal reasons then leaving it in the bush.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Lith » Fri 04 May, 2018 7:20 pm

For everyone who removes tape and especially cairns, know that you're severely hindering those who are not as experienced.

It's a big jump to go from well graded tracks with signs to your typical overnight hike trail and while now if I couldn't find the trail, I'd have no problem finding my own way, just a few years ago I'd be lost, stressing, and not having a good time. Tape and metal squares are unsightly and a sore reminder that humans really are everywhere but it's a small price to pay to ensure that everyone enjoys themselves and doesn't get lost. As for cairns that mark junctions, that's ridiculous if you want to remove those.

Not to mention that when you're not familiar with an area, it's encouraging to know that someones been there before you and took the time out of their day to do something purely for the benefit of other hikers. Don't stop people from enjoying the wilderness just because you're more than capable and they're not.

Regards
someone who got lost going up the east side of solitary when he was less experienced because someone removed the pink tape past the river crossing marking the trail
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby davidf » Fri 04 May, 2018 8:20 pm

Lith everyone can learn to navigate. Yes people are everywhere, that's why you can buy a map.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby wildwanderer » Sat 05 May, 2018 6:22 am

davidf wrote:Lith everyone can learn to navigate. Yes people are everywhere, that's why you can buy a map.


Agree. Its actually more unsafe to rely on tape for the route. Who knows who put it there and for what purpose.... Its quiet conceivable that the pink tape you think is marking the route is actually an old hazard burn line or bushcare section marking. both of which are not going to lead you where you wish to go and following them will only get you lost.

You can get a free app on your phone showing topo map and gps location. Use these as a backup while learning to navigate with your map and compass (carry a spare battery/powerpank), its going to be a lot safer than relying on tape. There is really no excuse for tape except in areas there is bad gps coverage (eg gorges) or areas with no identifiable features to enable navigation.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby peregrinator » Sat 05 May, 2018 9:44 am

A Parks Vic employee told me that plastic tape was used to mark locations where bait (foxes, dogs) had been laid. In some situations, it needed to be visible on the side of a track by other staff when driving. Perhaps others can confirm or deny whether this is routine. All I will say is that if such baiting gets results, I'm happy to put up with seeing the tape.

As for marking a spot in the landscape where one might be unsure of one's precise location and needs to calibrate, I've found that a suitably positioned small tree branch and/or a scrape in the dirt will do the temporary job. It's an I woz here that will normally only be identified by me.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Neo » Sat 05 May, 2018 1:10 pm

Printed tape should be cheap as chips to organise for 1080, Landcare etc.

Can't trust a cairn, or tape, as stated above.
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Re: marker tape removal

Postby Mark F » Sat 05 May, 2018 2:46 pm

For most of the identified needs logging a way point or a track on a gps will work - definitely lnt. Physical marking is only needed if under 1m accuracy is necessary. When I head off from a camp to explore, I always take a waypoint after an experience in the Pyrennees where it went from a cloudless sunny afternoon to 2-3 metre max visibility fog in under 10 minutes.If things are organised properly in sharing the waypoints etc there should be very little need to use tape and if it is used then it is up to the person who placed it to remove it.
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