Kosciuszko NP in Winter

[bushtucker]

Hi all,

Can anyone give me point me in the right direction for a winter trek in the Kosciuszko NP? I am struggling to find a starting point for such a trek online... Ideally, it would be a multi-day trek during winter and through the snow covering some of the mountains in the area. Any ideas much appreciated.

Best regards,

Daniel

[icefest]

Kozzie kills people in winter. Have you walked through a blizzard before?
https://www.emknowledge.gov.au/resource/?id=150

Many people start at the top of thredbo or at Perisher. Or you can walk in from the north.

[north-north-west]

For a gentle intro try the other side of the road - the Big Boggy, Teds, Chimneys Ridge, Bobs Ridge, the Cascades. If you're up to the Main Range in winter, then my preference is usually to go in from Guthega or Munyang. A bit less crowded.

Just make sure you're prepared.

[DarrenM]

Hi Daniel,

If you can give us a little background experience in terms of what kind of winter travel you have done in the past and the type of gear you will be using, it can help point you in the right direction. Not having any experience is ok, but will determine the best areas and what gear you may need and where to hire etc.

I agree with NNW about leaving from Munyang and up through the Whites river corridor if you are new to the game. Understanding the weather and forecast is absolutely critical, as is being confident in navigation, and by this I mean map and compass.

There is a fairly massive difference in gear required, skill set, and weather conditions in winter over the rest of the year in KNP.

[icefest]

As an example, we had a weather change from blue sky and almost wind-still - shorts and t-shirt weather to 115kmh gusts and 10m visibility within 12 hrs.
That being said, it's an incredible area.

[Lophophaps]

The mountains make their own weather. While the weather forecast is very useful it can only go so far, and forecasts can be wrong. Not often, but enough to warrant not having total confidence in the forecast. This is not a reflection on the meteorologists, just a fact of mountain life. Also, altitude can make a significant difference. One of the best examples is the quad chairlift from Thredbo to start of the Kosciusko walk, where it can be balmy and mild winds at the bottom and bitterly cold with a strong wind at the top.

With the right gear, experience and mind set the mountains can be magical. Just treat them with respect and caution.

[swills]

A good idea would be to hire some snow shoes and do a day walk out from Dead Horse Gap to see what you are in for, in no way should you attempt an overnight trip of any significance without experiencing the conditions of an Alpine environment. Cross Country skies are another excellent way to explore, but can take you far in a short time from assistance if you may need it. By doing a day walk you can carry a tent, sleeping bag, stove, etc etc and at lunch make camp, cook up a meal and experience what you will be in for on an extended trip.

[Lophophaps]

A good idea would be to hire some snow shoes and do a day walk out from Dead Horse Gap to see what you are in for... and experience what you will be in for on an extended trip.

Good idea. Skis can take a while to master, and snow shoes are easier; at least they don't descend at warp speed. See how long it takes to stamp the tent site down wearing just boots (well, keep the other clothing on, preferably), level the site (skis make this easier), put up a tent and set up inside. It takes a lot longer than in summer.

[icefest]

And try melting snow for water. That takes ab significant amount of extra tone and fuel.

[westernarthursaddict]

I did a back country snowboarding walk up koszi a couple of years back. You need snow shoes for sure, and yeah do not get caught in a blizzard, it sucks like …. yeah you get the picture. You'll need to bring a lot of gas to melt snow. Obviously snow attire and tent gear. Bring a shovel as well.

[bushtucker]

Hi all,

Thanks. This is all fantastic and really helpful.

DarrenM (thank you!) -- the types of treks we've done are based in Blue Mountains, Budawangs, some snow in Barrington Tops - all treks were fairly long distance and hilly - say between 22km (if lots of vertical ascent) to 65km (if flatter) over a weekend. We have appropriate camping gear and have been stuck in bad weather before but would need to buy/hire a few extra items specifically for the snow. Example treks here: http://getout-adventures.com/

Thanks again everyone for the tips.

Daniel

[DarrenM]

Hi Daniel

Here's a few things I can think of that may or may not help with your trip planning.

First up, I'd recommend snowshoes over ski options initially if you haven't had any backcountry skiing experience in your crew. My reasoning is to keep it simple at first to allow you to travel without the added hassle of skiing ability, skins and route choice while hauling packs. It's not to say you can't but from my experience using both the shoes are a great intro.

It is an essential piece of kit for everyone in the group and it is absolutely necessary to be able to travel safely in icy conditions. It may be fine soft snow on the way out but can turn bullet proof in a matter of hours and restrict all movement without some sort of traction. These and most of the gear below can be hired from a few places in Jindy. Wilderness Sports and Paddy Palin have good knowledgeable staff and can help with all your gear and more. They also offer guiding (not that you need it) along with K7 Adventures. I have no affiliation with any of them but have had pleasant dealings with all of them over the years.

Your tents will need snow pegs and they are cheap to buy. Take the best tents you have!

Sleeping mats are fairly subjective when it comes to snow so I'll start with what I use. I don't recommend it but for years I used an old (20 years old now) Thermarest Ultralite before upgrading to a Neoair directly on the snow. Most people use a closed cell and a mat of their choice on top or the best option would be a downmat. Can of worms!

Sleeping bags come from the same can. For what it's worth I started out with a 700gm bag (Paddy Freeling- had two) then a Paddy Jagungal then on to the bag I still use the most, a One Planet Custom with 1150gms down. I also own a Western Mountaineering Bison (purchased for OS trips) but rarely use it. I like warm bags as it's the one constant at the end of a hard day when I'm cold, tired, exhausted and sometimes too lazy to even cook. The body doesn't produce the heat it otherwise would so at least I'm warm. It's very hard to warm up but easy to cool down and I can bivy without a tent.

Cooking will take longer and use more fuel in general and without getting into a stove war, its personal choice. Simple answer is take more fuel and a larger pot to melt snow until you figure out the differences. Be careful taking water from any open creeks as despite people telling you they are clean... a lot of them aren't, especially around huts or common travel routes. I've been very sick and unable to move for 24 hours three days from home.

An important safety item I never leave without is a shovel. This can be hired too, and if you buy one, consider not buying one with a tiny blade. When you need to build snow walls/ shelter in a hurry the larger blades are best IMO. I have a large and small depending on the type of trip. Take more than one if you have a larger group.

Make sure you have a full waterproof shell for outerwear and the rest is up to you in terms of down jackets etc. I use full length thermals, a t-shirt, 200 weight fleece and shell. Ski gear basically. On the whole its a dry environment but I always put my sleeping bag in a garbage bag just in case as I've been known to fall in creeks or sinkholes. Gloves should be good quality waterproof ski type and you can take an inner if you're into them.

EPIRB/PLB of course which can also be hired from NPWS in Jindy and the stores above may also hire now. I'm not a big fan of recommending GPS as your first line navigating tool but would suggest taking it for whiteout nav. (common occurrence) I haven't used mine for years but always carry it as I have every hut and major peak pre programmed in just in case.

Consider doing a shorter trip in terms of overall distance initially and spend more time getting familiar with gear and having fun doing side trips. If you leave the tent log it on the GPS and make sure it wont blow away. I've seen it happen a few times.

In terms of the forecast, my tip has always been go in on an increasing high pressure weather scenario if you're new to the game. Have a bailout option if it's trending low with gale warnings etc and go skiing or find another camping option for the weekend. It can be miserable up high but ok in the valleys so keep you're options open to base camping. Jump on ski.com.au and check the forecast page as they have daily updates provided by the BOM with snow forecast % and wind etc. The backcountry forum is also a good place to pick through info.

I'm sure there's plenty I've missed and as it comes I'll post it up. Camera and trip reports are mandatory! Be careful or you'll be hooked.....

[sef]

Yeah, Munyang up into either the Kerries or Mt Tate. A lot of places to extend your trip to if things are going well, and retreat is pretty straightforward. A few last-resort huts there too.

While things could always go terribly wrong, if you're experienced in summer walking and make sensible decisions you'll be fine.

The other option (and no less interesting) would be to car camp down in Guthega or Thredbo and do some day trips up onto the Main Range proper. Between Thredbo and Munyang definitely has the most alpine feel of anywhere in the park, but not the best place to spend your first night on snow.

Have fun!

[bushnut]

What do people think about the following route for mid-July:

- Begin at Guthega following the Illawong walk
- Cross snowy river and then track NE following Pounds Creek past Gills Knobs
- Camp around Mann Bluff / Mt Tate
- Next day continue SW passing Mt Anderson, Mt Anton and Mt Twynam
- Camp somewhere in between Blue Lake and Mt Sentinel
- Next day explore Blue Lake area and head down to Charlottes Pass

Obviously would need a car shuffle. Is there parking somewhere near Charlottes Pass? I understand that there is parking in Guthega.

[Bluegum Mic]

In July the road between perisher and Charlottes is shut as its snow so you'd have to get the oversnow back to perisher. The other problem is parking at Perisher Valley is day parking only. Hopefully some of the regular tourers can pipe in on best places to park to tie into your route

[Lophophaps]

That sounds possible, and at no stage are you very far from Guthega. I have not crossed the Snowy at Guthega, and usually coss about a km above the pondage. It seems that you can cross at the dam wall. Is this your intention? By mid-July there may be snow bridges upstream. Pounds Creek should be okay. If the weather is fine, try the interestingly named Tate East Ridge, which runs NS. There's a few good sheltered spots near the Tate-Mann section You need to camp below the ridge with a solid rock on at least one side, preferably the west or north. Both would be better.

I am unaware of a sheltered campsite between Blue Lake and The Sentinal. I'm not sure where the glacial lakes no camping zone is. Depending on the border of the proscribed region, look at a point just downhill and east from where the summit circuit track meets the ridge, on the southern fall, on the site of the Soil Conservation Hut, 165698.

You could go back to Guthega, contouring above the Snowy.

[north-north-west]

If he's using the Illawong track, presumably he'll cross on the swing bridge.
Great campsite just under Mann Bluff, which I've used a couple of times. It's flat, sheltered and right next to the track.
There's a good campsite on the northern side of the Sentinel's ridge, on the creek flats. Bit exposed to the west but still good camping unless the conditions are really nasty.

Personally, I'd start by crossing the dam and going up over Guthega Ridge to Consett Stephens, and thence to Tate and Mann Bluff, and return via Twynam & Illawong. Whether you have enough time for the full Main Range circuit as well will depend on the conditions. But I've done a four-dayer from Munyang over snow (with some nastyish weather the first couple of days) which took me up Disappointment to Gungartan, down to cross the track near the Schlink Hilton, over Dicky Coopers and through the Rolling Grounds and Granite Peaks to Consett Stephens, over Tate, Anton and Twynam, around the circuit track to Kosciuszko, then back via the valley floor to cross the track near the river crossing, around (actually across) Hedley Tarn, sidetrip to Blue Lake, up Crummer Spur to Little Twynam and back via Illawong. Lucky enough to score a ride most of the way from Guthega down to Munyang on the last day.
Camps were at Diane's, Anton and below Carruthers.
But it's easier when you know the terrain.

[DarrenM]

What do people think about the following route for mid-July:

- Begin at Guthega following the Illawong walk
- Cross snowy river and then track NE following Pounds Creek past Gills Knobs
- Camp around Mann Bluff / Mt Tate
- Next day continue SW passing Mt Anderson, Mt Anton and Mt Twynam
- Camp somewhere in between Blue Lake and Mt Sentinel
- Next day explore Blue Lake area and head down to Charlottes Pass

Obviously would need a car shuffle. Is there parking somewhere near Charlottes Pass? I understand that there is parking in Guthega.

The first days route is a nice one up through Pounds creek although it does backtrack a little. NNW's idea of crossing the Dam and approaching Tate that side of Tate East Ridge is my and many others preferred route. Personally I usually cross the dam and head North for a K or so to cross the small footbridge before traversing up the ridge for a more direct approach.

Alternatively you can climb to Guthega Trig and across to Consett Pass and around as mentioned before making camp. Keep in mind that what may be sheltered in summer up high isn't always in winter.

The second days plan looks ok and there are some good camp options in the headwaters of Strzelecki Creek if the weather is behaving.

The third days route choice would be best returning to Twynam, then the saddle between Little Twynam then back to Illawong bridge via the northern side of Twynam creek. This route is the most used in winter from Guthega when accessing the more popular western faces runs.

If you spend time checking out Blue Lake, be careful approaching directly from Sentinel side as the broad ridge that runs between Twynam and Carruthers often forms a long cornice that you wont see from the camp side. You will see it from Twynam summit the day before on approach in good vis. The corniced area on Blue lake proper has claimed a life also so the best viewing from below needs a wider traverse along the Main Range Track.

You could contour around and back to the Little Twynam route but following the river is not much fun as it is moderately steep closer to the river and is a nightmare on snowshoes.

Charlotte Pass options only really become viable in Spring when they open the road. Good for late spring skiing.

Below are a few pics of the area. If only the weather was always this good!

The first is Pounds Creek looking back up Towards Gills Knobs and Tate on the original route idea.



The well used route along Illawong (swing bridge in centre) with Little Twynam and Twynam far top right.



The view down to Guthega dam and the two options to Tate. On the right, Guthega Trig ridge climb to Consett Pass.
Centre of pic, a more direct approach to Tate starting by crossing the footbridge North of the pondage then up through the trees to the Summit in the far background.

[bushnut]

Thanks for all that. That really helps and gives a great loop with plenty of variety and some peaks to bag.

Very much appreciated all!

[north-north-west]

Guthega Trig route is longer but easier.

[bushtucker]

Hi all,

I've just returned to this phenomenal response. There's been great dialogue here. I really want to thank everyone for the efforts in putting together some comprehensive, insightful responses. Darren M, NNW -- particular thanks for your detailed responses. I'll need to digest some of this material and will come back to you shortly.

Darren M - definitely will have a trip report from this one and photos to go with it (hopefully, get some clear days and nights for some nice starry photos). Cheers mate.

Best regards,

Daniel

[bushtucker]

Hey DarrenM, nice blog! You've done some awesome adventures and have great photos and descriptions!!

[bushtucker]

Hi all,

Thanks again for the detailed responses here, which really helped inform our trek. I finally got around to putting together the trek write-up a couple of weeks ago, which is available here: http://getout-adventures.com/2015/07/20 ... iuszko-np/

Best regards,

Daniel

[north-north-west]

Some really nice photos there. A bit of everything from the weather, but that makes for a more interesting trip, doesn't it?

[Chris-Toms Outdoors]

Hi all,

Thanks again for the detailed responses here, which really helped inform our trek. I finally got around to putting together the trek write-up a couple of weeks ago, which is available here: http://getout-adventures.com/2015/07/20 ... iuszko-np/

Best regards,

Daniel

Hi Daniel,
Awesome trip and great photos. It just makes me even keener for winter. So much planned, so little time
Chris