Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion.
Forum rules
NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby thejungleisneutral » Sun 26 Jul, 2015 9:32 pm

I don't usually look at the GPS as I walk, but I noticed today some big errors on the NSW eTopo map

I thought I might create a thread where folks who track their route while using NSW LPI eTopo mapping can post inaccuracies via screenshots.

Here's the one from today - McCallum's walking track from Long Point near Tallong NSW, down onto McCallum's flat on the Shoalhaven River. According to the GPS track this well-formed track is way off course on the map.

MAP - 8928-3N CAOURA 1:25k eTopo

ERROR/S - McCallum's Walking track is shown way off course after it passes Kingpin Mountain.

SCREENSHOT OF TRACK -

Image
User avatar
thejungleisneutral
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu 30 Jan, 2014 8:40 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Australian Bushcraft Magazine
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 26 Jul, 2015 10:27 pm

I get the impression that the map office cares little about walking tracks as they seemed to be more keen on removing tracks from their latest edition than correcting them.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby kanangra » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 8:48 am

Yes I noticed the same thing when I was down there recently but does it really matter? It is pretty obvious on the ground that you're not following the marked route of the track.

k.
kanangra
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Sun 25 May, 2008 3:52 pm

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby michael_p » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 12:11 pm

Over time tracks can change. Some changes are on purpose and some incidental. My bet is that the track in question was added to the map decades ago and has never been reviewed and is never likely to be reviewed.

Similar thing happened several years ago to me after NPWS changed the Coastal Track in the RNP. The new track is way off from the old and my GPSr track log looked very "off-track".

Nowdays I treat all tracks published on a topo as a guide only and expect that some change may have occurred since publication. This includes any e-version of topos, which are just an electronic version of the paper map and will contain the same errors as a paper version.

Cheers,
Michael.
One foot in front of the other.
User avatar
michael_p
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun 15 Nov, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: Macarthur Region of Sydney.
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 12:17 pm

Agree. As for significant changes after a major bushfire.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby tom_brennan » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:30 pm

BWRS was tracking some things like this, though more about features than tracks. I don't think it's been updated recently
http://www.bwrs.org.au/?q=MapErrors

You could ask LPI whether they want to get feedback on issue like yours.

I agree that LPI is a bit useless on this. There was a long standing error with the old Grassy Hill Fire Trail near Canoe Creek on the Colo. They seem to have "fixed" that by removing the incorrect section of fire trail altogether! Even though it's there on the ground.

I've prepared numerous sketch maps for my bushwalking web site http://bushwalkingnsw.com/ and in marking tracks (off GPS/local knowledge) I've certainly noticed numerous times when the LPI tracks are out, sometimes by quite some way.

And then you get tracks that they do have on their map, like the one up Glenbrook Creek from the Duck Hole, which is really just a way of route...
Bushwalking NSW - http://bushwalkingnsw.com
User avatar
tom_brennan
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed 29 Sep, 2010 9:21 am
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:38 pm

Have been in touch with LPI on a similar issue. Whilst they are courteous, I also get the impression that they are short of resources and these are not their priority.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby Allchin09 » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 2:45 pm

The tracks on Open Street Maps are usually more reliable than those provided by Lands. Unfortunately, I think that updating the OSM maps would be of greater benefit than trying to get Lands to make changes to their maps.
Tackling the unknown and the awesome one adventure at a time!

Check out my latest trips at http://aoacblog.wordpress.com/posts
Allchin09
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri 27 Apr, 2012 3:24 pm
Location: The Shire
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Sydney Bush Walkers
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby DaveNoble » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 7:40 pm

It was common for commercial maps - e.g. street maps, to have deliberate errors (e.g. a small lane added, or a road connected the wrong way) in order to detect any copyright infringements. So if another company produced a map of the same streets and reproduced the same errors - then this would show that they have not done independent research.

Dave
DaveNoble
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2008 3:56 pm

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby puredingo » Mon 27 Jul, 2015 7:57 pm

The Ensign/Barallier track on the Nattia sheet has a doozy. It sends you over a big chunk of land through some hellish scrub, it done me for a few extra hours of the day and a heap of precious energy!
puredingo
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Mon 13 Feb, 2012 6:54 am
Region: New South Wales

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby andrewharvey » Mon 31 Aug, 2015 4:12 pm

Allchin09 wrote:The tracks on Open Street Maps are usually more reliable than those provided by Lands. Unfortunately, I think that updating the OSM maps would be of greater benefit than trying to get Lands to make changes to their maps.


Yes, this track shown is just waiting to be added to OSM http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-34.7762/150.0559
andrewharvey
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri 06 Mar, 2015 2:47 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: beyondtracks.com
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 31 Aug, 2015 5:38 pm

andrewharvey wrote:Yes, this track shown is just waiting to be added to OSM http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-34.7762/150.0559

That's a hard one without actual GPS track log. The available aerial imagery does not have enough information for manual entry.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby andrewharvey » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 8:28 am

GPSGuided wrote:That's a hard one without actual GPS track log. The available aerial imagery does not have enough information for manual entry.


The original poster did seem to have the logged the track via GPS. Otherwise someone else will come along sooner or later with the track logged.
andrewharvey
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri 06 Mar, 2015 2:47 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: beyondtracks.com
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby sharpstones » Wed 20 Jan, 2016 9:35 pm

I've also found that the present Auto-generated series of the printed maps to be a bit bizarre. I often look at the Katoomba map so I've picked up on the changes like: inclusions of extra tracks eg. Dark's Caves at Leura...some labeling changes...elimination of the little warning about the Horse Track at Blackheath being unmaintained...and then what I found to be the worst was was the inclusion of the Lindeman Pass with some seemingly huge inaccuracies - eg. Gordan Falls. I did notice that some of the track inclusions that occurred are what sits on the NSW Map layer at SIX maps but these changes were not interpolated into the "Topo Maps (current)" layer until some months back. What I'm wondering is - where did they source the track information from!

I think that on the printed maps they should add a disclaimer below the warning on trespass:
"Map users should not rely on track accuracy without prior investigation."

Besides that I dislike the way the current series look - slight changes to the text, colouration etc.

As once was written on their maps:
Department of Lands
"Reliable from the ground up"
sharpstones
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:49 pm
Region: New South Wales

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby tom_brennan » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:08 am

sharpstones wrote:What I'm wondering is - where did they source the track information from!


I think they just make it up!

See
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=15767
for another example of great mapping in action.
Bushwalking NSW - http://bushwalkingnsw.com
User avatar
tom_brennan
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed 29 Sep, 2010 9:21 am
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby jeremy089786 » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:14 pm

We got stung by this very trail. We were planning on hiking up the ridge to find it but we never go there and had to go all the way back down to the river!

Trip report, showing the same cut out that you provided:
http://adventuresandtinkerings.blogspot ... eater.html
jeremy089786
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed 22 Dec, 2010 6:05 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: WilderWheels
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby ribuck » Fri 22 Apr, 2016 9:28 pm

After walking the path from Long Point both ways over the last couple of days and recording a GPS track, I've edited the path on OpenStreetMap to reflect reality. Unfortunately I can't do anything about the fiction on the LPI maps.
User avatar
ribuck
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1883
Joined: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:47 am
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Inaccurate NSW Topo Maps

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 22 Apr, 2016 10:13 pm

ribuck wrote:After walking the path from Long Point both ways over the last couple of days and recording a GPS track, I've edited the path on OpenStreetMap to reflect reality. Unfortunately I can't do anything about the fiction on the LPI maps.

Good on you! More the merrier on OSM and it's for a whole world to see. :mrgreen:
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6968
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales


Return to New South Wales & ACT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests