Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion.
Forum rules
NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jackattack » Wed 26 Oct, 2016 9:19 am

Hi,

I have done a bit of google research, and apart from an isolated event here and there, I can't find evidence of a Vegan Hiking Group in NSW. Any leads on one or any individuals wanting to get something going
jackattack
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat 27 Jun, 2015 9:24 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby johnk1 » Wed 26 Oct, 2016 11:32 pm

?????????????
johnk1
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat 30 May, 2015 9:11 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby Mark F » Thu 27 Oct, 2016 10:58 am

Why do your dietary preferences require a a conforming group to hike with? I expect you currently work and socialise with people who have a wide range of dietary preferences.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
User avatar
Mark F
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: Mon 19 Sep, 2011 8:14 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jackattack » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 11:34 am

Why do your dietary preferences require a a conforming group to hike with? I expect you currently work and socialise with people who have a wide range of dietary preferences.


Hi Mark, good question. I work in a supermarket so around lots of meat and dairy, live with a non vegan, family is non vegan and sometimes I just don't want to be around non vegans. This post was a fishing expedition to see if there already was a Vegan Hiking / bush walking group in NSW. I have an informal group of vegan and vegan friendly mates who are wanting to join a group or possibly form one ourselves. I don't want to reinvent the wheel by forming another group if one already exists. There is precedent for lifestyle or belief system specific groups , such as the Catholic Bushwalking club, started by Catholics but now open to everyone (per their site) and Hikeout, which is gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and straight friendly informal hiking group on Meetup.

This post is not about being vegan, but I will answer what my way of being vegan is. I am transitioning to a vegan life style, and I accept I will not be 100 % compliant but I strive to be as much as possible. This is more than just a dietary preference, but a way of living where there is a commitment to not using animals or parts of animals for food, clothing, transportation, sport or entertainment. My bushwalking and exploration of the concepts of leave no trace were the catalyst as to why I am a vegan. How can I love trees and native animals yet eat cows? I am slowly replacing where needed, shoes, clothes, toiletries but I am not going to chuck out the good for the bad, so using what i have like my hiking shoes and merino gear but I am drawing a line of no more.
jackattack
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat 27 Jun, 2015 9:24 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 10:30 pm

How do you know somebody is a vegan?. They will tell you !. I'd rather hike with people who can cope with the challenges of hiking and navigation who eat the occasional bit of yoghurt and egg.I eat an Indian Veg. diet.My conscience is clear .
paidal_chalne_vala
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun 22 Jan, 2012 10:30 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: VNPA
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby benoloughlin » Sun 30 Oct, 2016 7:00 am

jackattack wrote:Hi,

I have done a bit of google research, and apart from an isolated event here and there, I can't find evidence of a Vegan Hiking Group in NSW. Any leads on one or any individuals wanting to get something going


I doubt whether one exists. My recommendation is to join a highly regarded bush-walking/hiking club and you might find that people with similar dietary and philosophical inclinations will gravitate towards each other.
User avatar
benoloughlin
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri 21 Oct, 2016 7:59 am
Location: Tasmania
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Cradle Mountain Lodge
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby walkerchris77 » Sun 30 Oct, 2016 11:55 am

I love when vegans go to bbqs and bring vege food in the shape of sausages. Lol.
It shouldn't matter what people eat to determine if you can walk with them. Look at that poor lady that died on everest who was a vegan. Maybe if she had eaten right she her body may have been able to cope better.
User avatar
walkerchris77
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri 15 Nov, 2013 11:42 am
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jonnosan » Sun 30 Oct, 2016 5:08 pm

I've met quite a few vegans on SUBW trips. It's definitely not vegan only though. But once you are signed up ( subw.org.au ), you can advertise any trip you want, and if you wanted to run a vegan-only walk you would probably get some response there. You don't need to be a current or even former of Sydney Uni to join BTW.
User avatar
jonnosan
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri 27 Jan, 2012 4:06 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby Zapruda » Sun 30 Oct, 2016 8:03 pm

walkerchris77 wrote:Maybe if she had eaten right she her body may have been able to cope better.


She died of pulmonary edema. All the steaks in the world wouldnt have helped her.

Think before you type.
Zapruda
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu 07 Apr, 2016 10:46 am
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby Suz » Mon 31 Oct, 2016 8:07 am

Jackattack - where are you located? The Sydney Vegan Club does occasional 'walks'. Also there is a 'vegan hikers' group on FB but that is more about equipment and not actually about hiking together - as there are only ~200 members across the world in it.
Suz
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri 03 Apr, 2015 7:58 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Female

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jackattack » Mon 31 Oct, 2016 9:46 am

Hi Suz, thanks for the reply. I am located in Newcastle but will travel to Sydney, blue mountains etc for walks. I will have a look at the Sydney Vegan Club and the Facebook group.
jackattack
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat 27 Jun, 2015 9:24 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby boronia » Thu 03 Nov, 2016 6:10 pm

I've been a lurker here for a while but finally signed up after seeing this thread and wanting to send jackattack a private message - seems I can't though (maybe because new account?)
boronia
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu 03 Nov, 2016 6:08 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Female

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby Lophophaps » Thu 03 Nov, 2016 7:34 pm

boronia wrote:I've been a lurker here for a while but finally signed up after seeing this thread and wanting to send jackattack a private message - seems I can't though (maybe because new account?)


Boronia, welcome to the forum. Yes, need to join to post private messages.
User avatar
Lophophaps
Auctorita modica
Auctorita modica
 
Posts: 1427
Joined: Wed 09 Nov, 2011 9:45 am
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby [Jack]son » Sun 06 Nov, 2016 2:48 pm

walkerchris77 wrote:I love when vegans go to bbqs and bring vege food in the shape of sausages. Lol.
It shouldn't matter what people eat to determine if you can walk with them. Look at that poor lady that died on everest who was a vegan. Maybe if she had eaten right she her body may have been able to cope better.


Congratulations on derailing a thread and contributing nothing with your post. This was not a thread about barbecues or someone who died of something unrelated to her political inclinations. How many non-vegans have died on Everest? See where your lack of reasoning gets you?

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:How do you know somebody is a vegan?. They will tell you !. I'd rather hike with people who can cope with the challenges of hiking and navigation who eat the occasional bit of yoghurt and egg.I eat an Indian Veg. diet.My conscience is clear .


I'm not sure if you're implying that vegans can't cope with the challenges of hiking and navigation. If you are, you'd have to be very stupid. Let's hope you're not.

You did, however, come onto this thread and contribute nothing with your post. If you are not vegan, and are not interested in walking with vegans, why did you post? It's very ironic that you hijacked this thread to tell people about your own choices, which is exactly what you were having a go at someone else for. I lold.

Mark F wrote:Why do your dietary preferences require a a conforming group to hike with? I expect you currently work and socialise with people who have a wide range of dietary preferences.



Veganism is a political choice, not a dietary one. It extends far beyond the food one consumes :)


Zapruda wrote:
walkerchris77 wrote:Maybe if she had eaten right she her body may have been able to cope better.


She died of pulmonary edema. All the steaks in the world wouldnt have helped her.

Think before you type.


Legend :)


Jackattack, if you're ever around Canberra and want to go for a walk or ride, hit me up!
[Jack]son
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue 03 May, 2016 5:36 pm
Location: Canberra
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby clarence » Mon 07 Nov, 2016 4:46 pm

I have been a vegetarian for over 15 years. I'd go vegan if it wasn't such a hassle.

I do find a disproportionate number of vegetarians/vegan to be quite tedious generally (moral high horse, self righteous etc). If I had the choice I'd probably choose to not go hiking with vegans/ vegetarians (all things being equal).

That being said some there have been some pretty dumb comments on here.

Vegetarianism/veganism does not necessarily relate to lower ability. One of the best ultra marathon runners in Australia (ranked in the 20 most influential of all time in Australia) was vegetarian for most of his running career.

Clarence
clarence
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun 12 Feb, 2012 7:52 pm
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby Hiking Noob » Mon 07 Nov, 2016 10:32 pm

How do you spot a meat eater? They will be the person that asks you a million stupid questions when they find out you don't eat meat.

Meat eating male Aethiests=The most annoying people in the world. I am all three of these things but I don't see the need to constantly tell people they are living their life the wrong way.
I wonder if you can buy sweatshop free hiking gear*? People are animals too.


I think Patagonia is....?
Hiking Noob
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun 08 Feb, 2015 10:11 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jackattack » Thu 10 Nov, 2016 7:07 pm

jonnosan wrote:I've met quite a few vegans on SUBW trips. It's definitely not vegan only though. But once you are signed up ( subw.org.au ), you can advertise any trip you want, and if you wanted to run a vegan-only walk you would probably get some response there. You don't need to be a current or even former of Sydney Uni to join BTW.



Thanks jonnosan. I am interested in joking club though feel I am not fit enough, will look into it and thanks for the suggestion.
jackattack
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat 27 Jun, 2015 9:24 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jackattack » Thu 10 Nov, 2016 7:14 pm

Hiking Noob wrote:I wonder if you can buy sweatshop free hiking gear*? People are animals too.


I think Patagonia is....?

I struggle re the sweatshop fair trade issues and price. Only have a casual job and money's tight. I make do with what I have, buy second hand and only new if totally necessary and it's admittedly not sweatshop free. Patagonia looks good so far on ethics, just need a better job.

Good points, mate.
jackattack
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat 27 Jun, 2015 9:24 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby andrewa » Thu 10 Nov, 2016 8:54 pm

I'm having issues wondering why anyone gives a farque what people eat whilst out in the bush, and why it would change who you walked with?

if you walk with a group (which the OP implies), you can cook and eat whatever you want. It's not as though meat eaters walk along talking about BBQs, spits, etc all day, or enforce their meat eating/ fish eating/ animal product eating on those around them. I really can't see how being vegan/meat eating/Catholic/blond/gay/Australian/whatever changes anything unless you are somewhat insecure in your life "preference"

But, if you want to find a Vegan Club, go for it, if it adds to your fulfilment in the bush.

A
andrewa
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat 05 Mar, 2011 5:55 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: None
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby LPG » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 5:55 pm

andrewa wrote: It's not as though meat eaters walk along talking about BBQs, spits, etc all day,


You're forgetting long hikes without services. About 4-5 days in discussions tend to revolve around what obscene amounts of fatty and obnoxious meat products people are dreaming about once out of the bush. Pretty sure I've been with non meat eaters that join in on the discussion just a fiercly.

It's a pity that people have to be so dogmatic that they have to segregate themselves from others when bushwalking but it's their choice.
LPG
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun 18 Dec, 2016 9:55 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jdeks » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 7:57 pm

This is funnier than the 'advice to nice guys' thread.

I think it's certainly proven WHY there aren't any vegan hiking clubs though.
jdeks
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:05 pm
Region: Australia

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby Mark F » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 8:04 pm

I wonder if you can buy sweatshop free hiking gear*?


Most cottage manufacturers produce their products in house - ZPacks, Enlightened Equipment, MLD, undercling-mike etc. Highly unlikely any of these are sweat shops and there is not much you need that they don't supply. Source fabrics that are woven in the US or Japan. You can of course create your own sweat shop by buying a sewing machine and making your own gear.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
User avatar
Mark F
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: Mon 19 Sep, 2011 8:14 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jackattack » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:04 pm

jdeks wrote:This is funnier than the 'advice to nice guys' thread.

I think it's certainly proven WHY there aren't any vegan hiking clubs though.



How so, jdeks?
jackattack
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat 27 Jun, 2015 9:24 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jdeks » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 11:05 am

jackattack wrote:
jdeks wrote:This is funnier than the 'advice to nice guys' thread.

I think it's certainly proven WHY there aren't any vegan hiking clubs though.

How so, jdeks?


Sorry, if you can't see it by now, I don't think I can explain it.

Zapruda wrote:
walkerchris77 wrote:Maybe if she had eaten right she her body may have been able to cope better.


She died of pulmonary edema. All the steaks in the world wouldnt have helped her.

Think before you type.


Righto, threadjack due multilevel misinformation:

Vegan and vegetarians, statistically speaking, typically have lower iron stores. No, I dont want to start a debate about how "But I'm a vegan and I'm perfectly healthy" - I'm sure you are, and while it's certainly possible to have a vegan/vego diet that meets your (also typically lower) iron intake requirements, the fact is that many a study has shown healthy, non-anemic vegans and vegoes still have lower serum ferritin readings.

This isn't an issue for 99% of people. But if you start rapid exposure to higher altitudes, those iron stores act are your buffer, and if they're already low it reduces you ability to start pumping out haemoglobin to deal with lower 02 levels. Combine this with a diet typically also low in vit B12 (only found in meat and dairy, critical for red blood cell production), THIS is when anemia CAN become a thing.

Does this cause altitude sickness? Not really. Definitely not ideal though.

Reduced 02 absorbtion means your heart and lungs work overtime to meet respiration needs, and you burn calories like CRAZY, on top of some fairly major exertion already. Vegans can get calories in, sure - but the volume of food you need to carry and prepare is much greater, and considering even omnivorous mountaineers have to make an effort to get joules in, there's a real risk of entering caloric deficiency aka starvation.

Does this cause altitude sickness? Quite possibly. Sure doesn't help. More likely leads to exhaustion that masks the early warning signs that you need to GO DOWN RIGHT NOW.

3 days before Maria died, Kuntal Joisher actually became the first vegan to climb everest. The difference was that he'd been climbing in Nepal for years, and 2 years prior had summited Manaslu (26,700ft). He'd spent the 2014 and 2015 season on Everest too. He was an experienced mountaineer, with maintained altitude conditioning. On the other hand, Maria and her husband (who also got medivac'd with hape), had only sporadic trekking ascents of mountains like Kili and Denali, spread out over 8 years. The highest they'd been was Aconcagua - a 22,000ft hike with no technical climbing or time at Everest-tier altitudes. But they'd set their symbolic '7 peaks' goal, and to prove their point about veganism they persisted in climbing a mountain several leagues above anything they'd experienced - physically, technically and environmentally.

Now, does this cause altitude sickness? Yes. More than anything else, by a big margin.

Lack of steaks isn't what killed her. Pushing herself on a mountain she was not conditioned to climb, so she could tell everyone she was a vegan, was.
jdeks
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:05 pm
Region: Australia

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 5:46 pm

I have to agree with JDEKS. High Altitude is a great leveler. That is my experience.Ascending too quickly puts your body and mind under duress which are part of the warning signs.
paidal_chalne_vala
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun 22 Jan, 2012 10:30 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: VNPA
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby Nuts » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 5:55 pm

The point makes sense, needing to go to such an extreme to find a flaw leaves it harder to see the relationship here to that other thread.
My conscience was clear there. Here starts, for me, with an each to their own conclusion and doesn't really need to go further. However, chewing the fat, the further you break down resistance to vegetarianism, even veganism, there are some very practical bits of fact that point out how odd, in fact, us thinking omnivores are.

Take cows for example, I had a chance to meet (what seemed like) many of the 100 million cows in the US on a recent extended visit, outside reserves they appeared to occupy every available scrap of land trying to feed that maccas megabeast.. They are everywhere! As an omnivore the philosophical debate was tempered by the fact that these are animals, existing quite happily. All good. But then what about the Bison (etc) they displaced, what about the opposition to anything but more (cows/ less bison) by the powerful cattle industry. Moving to practicalities, cows arguably contribute at least as much noxious greenhouse gas as do the various forms of transport..., cows are also terribly inefficient energy equation to feeding people en masse. Then I recall that trackbuilder, huge guy, powerlifting champion, existing thriving on a wok full of vegies each night, an impressive example. Yet we get techy with a contribution by someone who'd like to spend their time with people who realise this? Me too (a bit prone to judgement), or maybe moreso 20yrs ago, sometimes it takes some out-of-sorts confrontation on a personal level. For me seeing all those cows and the few decrepit old bison bulls hounded into Yellowstone, that has left the most recent impression.


Screen Shot 2016-11-10 at 2.39.55 PM.png
Screen Shot 2016-11-10 at 2.39.55 PM.png (550.93 KiB) Viewed 1031 times


Anyhow.. Jackattack, last summer I was approached by a vegan organisation (from NSW iirc, i'd assume Syd) interested in doing some walks here. It didn't sound like they had been walking, hence needing guidance, just that they were exploring getting a group together. I can (see if I have the contact still) try to put you in touch? At least, maybe indicates there may be interest in your own wheel/ starting your own group?
User avatar
Nuts
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 7330
Joined: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 12:22 pm
Region: Tasmania

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jackattack » Fri 23 Dec, 2016 9:42 am

Thanks Nuts! passing on their information would be great!
jackattack
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat 27 Jun, 2015 9:24 am
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby kjbeath » Thu 29 Dec, 2016 1:05 pm

jdeks wrote:Vegan and vegetarians, statistically speaking, typically have lower iron stores. No, I dont want to start a debate about how "But I'm a vegan and I'm perfectly healthy" - I'm sure you are, and while it's certainly possible to have a vegan/vego diet that meets your (also typically lower) iron intake requirements, the fact is that many a study has shown healthy, non-anemic vegans and vegoes still have lower serum ferritin readings.

This isn't an issue for 99% of people. But if you start rapid exposure to higher altitudes, those iron stores act are your buffer, and if they're already low it reduces you ability to start pumping out haemoglobin to deal with lower 02 levels. Combine this with a diet typically also low in vit B12 (only found in meat and dairy, critical for red blood cell production), THIS is when anemia CAN become a thing.

Does this cause altitude sickness? Not really. Definitely not ideal though.


Major point that you seem to forget is that someone who was climbing Everest would have blood tests, medical and dieticians advice and would know that their iron levels were OK and if not take supplements.
kjbeath
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue 28 Sep, 2010 6:02 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby jdeks » Sat 31 Dec, 2016 3:16 pm

kjbeath wrote:
Major point that you seem to forget is that someone who was climbing Everest would have blood tests, medical and dieticians advice and would know that their iron levels were OK and if not take supplements.


Major point you seem to be unaware of is that medical standards typically come down to the expedition operators, and ultimately that's governed by their desire to get paying customers up the slope. That, and the individuals' willingness to actually listen to advice if given.
jdeks
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:05 pm
Region: Australia

Vegan Hiking or Bushwalking Clubs

Postby RonK » Sat 31 Dec, 2016 5:32 pm

Truly amazing people those Sherpa. Do all the hard work at altitude on a diet of dal bhat.
User avatar
RonK
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Mon 31 Dec, 2012 10:33 am
Region: Queensland
Gender: Male

Next

Return to New South Wales & ACT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests