Bushwalk Australia

noticed yesterday, that someone/some entity - a conscious environmentalist or NPWS ? - has removed 90% of the randomly placed pink/red/white/yellow/blue marker tape on flora, from Waterfall Creek, up the ridge, and out to the end of Spion Kop - Brisbane Water NP

I'm OK with it as I know the track fairly well, but having said that, in 2 spots I still had to double back !

am thinking about eager "mum 'n dad and little Johnny" along there for the first time and getting lost

IMHO I really don't think that that tape should have been removed.

right ! off my soapbox ..........

That tape is an eyesore and often can mislead people.

If you can't navigate on a route that doesn't have a foot pad or track you probably shouldn't be on the walk to begin with. Relying on the tape is dangerous.

If it weren't there to begin with you wouldn't miss it now.

Off my soapbox

Zapruda wrote:If you can't navigate on a route that doesn't have a foot pad or track you probably shouldn't be on the walk to begin with. Relying on the tape is dangerous.

So categorical? Is a combination of navigation and tape reminder not appropriate? Maps can be out of alignment too. Staying on established track is better for the environment too.


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I'm in the tape removal camp myself actually.
There's far too much of it out there. The occasional stone cairn at a crucial point I can go with. I put a few in on the bay side of Spion Kop a few years back but it's pretty well padded now.


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roysta wrote:I'm in the tape removal camp myself actually.
There's far too much of it out there. The occasional stone cairn at a crucial point I can go with. I put a few in on the bay side of Spion Kop a few years back but it's pretty well padded now.

So you are actually in the appropriate use group, not (total) tape removal group. Right?


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Im in the appropriate use camp. I dont think marking the route with tape so little johnny and his ill prepared parents can follow the track is appropriate use. With all the cheap and easily obtainable nav gear we have .. free or under $10 gps /route phone apps, not to mention carrying a map/compass .. now days there is really no excuse for littering the bush with coloured tape trail markers or even worse spray paint.

A few of scenarios im ok with ..

- National Parks trail head signage that blends in with the bush
- Route markings to show the correct way over a dangerous scramble etc.
- Walkers putting in some moderate markers in remote areas where thick vegetation prevents gps signals and the land shape is hard to make out (making the utilization of map to ground skills very challenging.)

wildwanderer wrote:
A few of scenarios im ok with ..

- National Parks trail head signage that blends in with the bush
- Route markings to show the correct way over a dangerous scramble etc.
- Walkers putting in some moderate markers in remote areas where thick vegetation prevents gps signals and the land shape is hard to make out (making the utilization of map to ground skills very challenging.)

also add in there
- marking a route for extraction of a casualty (SAR only)
- marking boundaries of a search field (SAR/research)
- marking specific trees (research)
- excluding areas do to pest shooting (NP)
- as a wind indicator (shooter for natural parks)
- marking out an exclusion zone around a dead body (police/SAR)

The list goes on...unless you are told the marking tape is there to mark a track, don't assume its for the track.

in reality, always double check before following

taipan821 wrote:The list goes on...unless you are told the marking tape is there to mark a track, don't assume its for the track.

in reality, always double check before following

+1. I'm sometimes a volunteer with NPWS and similar remote work parties. We need to mark certain locations to return at a later stage.
We aim to be discreet but also try to keep the tape out of reach so that people won't bother attempting to remove it.
As for the OP, if inexperienced people are relying on pink tape for navigation then it's potentially a rescue waiting to happen. Please learn to read a map and gain appropriate skills - start with really easy stuff and build up from there.

Devil's advocate here. The problem with the argument for navigation experiences is that it's a continuum and even the most experienced may make mistake while noobs have to start somewhere. As such, some tape may also provide assistance/confirmation for those who are progressing, then it can actually be added safety and reduce the risks of 'loss in the bush'. Always two ends of the same candle.

Even for those that can navigate, they can be a great aid to stay on track around fallen trees, in the snow, and areas that are grown over. Better than spreading out to find the track again surely ?

The only real logic to complete removal of tapes are for virginal look and to keep the tracks hidden from all but those few in the know, be it for selfish or conservation reasons. Safety for noobs is more of a stretched excuse in that mix.

Sue and I have a rule of thumb: if there are pink tapes tied on the bushes, we are probably lost...
Yes, in many places we fill our pockets as we go past. I mean, pink tape on the Jerusalum Bay walk???

Cheers
Roger

I've been on numerous tracks in mainly remote regions where maintenance has not been carried out and a fallen tree makes the track very hard to pick up past the fallen tree. This is especially so where the track changes direction where the tree falls. Would it not be best to mark a new track past the fallen tree? There are also some places where a fire has led to thick regrowth, and a long-established track is now gone, either by management policy or insufficient funding. Navigating in the trackless bush can be done, but would it not be better to keep people in one track rather than trampling multiple paths?

1 roll of survey tape from Bunnings = $6.00.
Me taking my time on an overgrown and poorly marked track which does not resemble the map in any way using compass GPS and 40 years of experience = Free


Hiker with no map, compass or experience and ill equipped walking same unmarked track and getting lost = Million dollar search and Searchers lives at risk To recover a possible body.
Family of hiker = loss of loved one and possible provider. Body sometime never recovered.

Feeling of me Helping out other hikers by marking track with no damage to the environment and possible saving a life = Priceless

It's reassuring to see some tape when there's no track...the AAWT marker has been consumed by the tree and someone has kindly marked the route with yellow tape. Not much impact.

Of relevance, has there been well documented cases where inexperienced or poorly prepared walkers got led by marker tapes into the unknown, leading to being lost and needed rescue or worse outcomes?

GPSGuided wrote:Of relevance, has there been well documented cases where inexperienced or poorly prepared walkers got led by marker tapes into the unknown, leading to being lost and needed rescue or worse outcomes?

I do not know but there's most certainly the possibility. I'm aware of taped and cairned routes that have gone in the wrong direction, with a number of marked routes adding to the confusion. If a track is formed in a logical place then that should be okay. But what if before this happens a bumbly is following the tapes and there's a gap, with the bumbly going in the wrong direction? I've been on well-defined tracks that take a sharp turn, with a false lead continuing straight, missing the turn. If this is not blocked off quickly then the false lead will become established.

Perhaps assess each situation on merits.

Can anyone cite a taped route that serves a good purpose, or not?

rcaffin wrote:Sue and I have a rule of thumb: if there are pink tapes tied on the bushes, we are probably lost...
Yes, in many places we fill our pockets as we go past. I mean, pink tape on the Jerusalum Bay walk???

Cheers
Roger

yes well, Jerusalem Bay, no need for tape on that one



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Lophophaps wrote:I do not know but there's most certainly the possibility. I'm aware of taped and cairned routes that have gone in the wrong direction, with a number of marked routes adding to the confusion. If a track is formed in a logical place then that should be okay. But what if before this happens a bumbly is following the tapes and there's a gap, with the bumbly going in the wrong direction? I've been on well-defined tracks that take a sharp turn, with a false lead continuing straight, missing the turn. If this is not blocked off quickly then the false lead will become established.

Unfortunately 'possibility' does not a case make. I don't get the impression that people would blindly follow tapes and when there are markers present, there's always the option of back tracking. One can truly be lost when there are no markers in thick growth. For all the discussions on the subject and prevalence, surprised there aren't more people coming up and explaining their reason for putting up the tapes.

rcaffin wrote:I mean, pink tape on the Jerusalum Bay walk???

I wonder if those pink tapes are for some other purpose? Public activity? X-country running event to assist routing recognition? Guess the issue is that users/organizers don't bother to remove after the event.

Pull em out!

If its for a search and rescue, then the agency involved should 'Pull 'em out' after the event
If its a Police incident - they should 'Pull 'em out'
If its for research they should also 'Pull 'em out' post research of if they are permanent make then bleeding obvious and tell folks.
If its for an event - 'Pull 'em out' after the event

so in a nutshell...... stop rubbishing the place!

Yes.
Or in another nutshell, 'leave nothing but footprints'..

Hi. I found an old track recently dusted off and given fresh tape. It turns out that the local fire fighters had marked the boundary of the upcoming back burning operations. It is a fire control line. there were older bits of tape too from a burn ten years ago. So I'd suggest leaving fresh tape in place as it may be needed. I intended to leave markers as I find them if they are still in place.

solohiker wrote:Hi. I found an old track recently dusted off and given fresh tape. It turns out that the local fire fighters had marked the boundary of the upcoming back burning operations. It is a fire control line. there were older bits of tape too from a burn ten years ago. So I'd suggest leaving fresh tape in place as it may be needed. I intended to leave markers as I find them if they are still in place.

IMO even firefighters should be removing any unburned tape after they have finished operating in the area.

thanks for those who replied
your personal views and inputs were interesting to read...........

I generally don't like tape, but it sometimes useful. There is always a question with walking whether it is better for people to spread out or to follow a single track. A lot of the sandstone country a single track seems better and tape helps, for example when you walk across a section of sandstone and need to rejoin the track and don't want to create a lot of false trails.

The argument that it allows people with no skills to go places is always wrong. People with no skills should definitely not be following routes, but only properly constructed tracks. That is how too many get lost because they wander off.

tastrax wrote:Pull em out!

If its for a search and rescue, then the agency involved should 'Pull 'em out' after the event
If its a Police incident - they should 'Pull 'em out'
so in a nutshell...... stop rubbishing the place!

We strive to do so although sometimes the situation prevents us from doing that (waste of precious resources). I will add though, if I'm hiking and see some marker tape that we put up for a SAR/police incident I take it out.

now...what about the use of search tape in the use of securing sleeping volunteers do I have to pack it out or does the sleeping volunteer?

taipan821 wrote:... We strive to do so although sometimes the situation prevents us ...

Perhaps there is some type of biodegradable marker tape that will compost itself after a week or two, for these temporary uses.

Self removing....Biodegradable flagging tapes.
Wood fibre based, 6-24months before degrading.

https://prospectors.com.au/collections/ ... 75m-x-25mm

https://www.forestrytools.com.au/index.php?id=149

Rob Gosford wrote:noticed yesterday, that someone/some entity - a conscious environmentalist or NPWS ? - has removed 90% of the randomly placed pink/red/white/yellow/blue marker tape on flora, from Waterfall Creek, up the ridge, and out to the end of Spion Kop - Brisbane Water NP

I'm OK with it as I know the track fairly well, but having said that, in 2 spots I still had to double back !

am thinking about eager "mum 'n dad and little Johnny" along there for the first time and getting lost

IMHO I really don't think that that tape should have been removed.

right ! off my soapbox ..........

I checked out this route for the first time on Sunday. There's still a good deal of tape, but honestly I don't think it's needed. There's a well formed track.


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