Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby tqc » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 9:46 am

johnw wrote:One notable (and disturbing) thing that I encountered were hoards of non-bushwalking types on the track, some playing ghetto blasters at full volume (for want of a better description) who seemed to be all converging at the figure of eight pools.


Usually that sort of thing is limited to near Wattamolla and north of wedding cake. I was at Wattamolla on Sunday - nothing on there other than a really nice day, but anybody arriving after 12 would have been looking for another beach to go to.

johnw wrote:There is now a warning sign at Garrawarra Farm of the risks of being swamped by freak waves at the pools (with photos to illustrate). But this looks like it's having the opposite effect to what was likely intended.


People walking the other way covered in blood generally works though.

There’s also often a sign on the main road showing ‘dangerous conditions - no access’, though I think that was set to ‘no drones’ on Sunday. And when they don’t put that one up there’s always somebody flying one.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby tqc » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 10:03 am

michael_p wrote:The amount of "tourist" walkers on the Coastal Track beggars belief. Last time I was at Garrawarra Farm a young man came up to me and wanted me to show him ,on his phone, how to get to Helensburgh train station. They didn't look like bushwalking types so I decided that giving directions on how to get to Helensburgh was not a good idea and advised that they return to Otford instead.


The most off-course I’ve met would have to be the ones arriving at Wattamolla thinking they might be somewhere near Waterfall. And then there’s the europeans who assume that a road end implies a village with public transport etc.

That’s what the coast track is there for I guess - at least its the sort of track where you can just keep walking and expect to end up somewhere reasonably safe.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby Lophophaps » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 10:40 am

PWS will hopefully be interested in comments such as the above, and may even be able to act on them. The email is
info@environment.nsw.gov.au
This is a head ofice email, and there are local ones, but I could not find out which one to use for Royal NP. Starting at Walhalla and ending up reasonably safe at Tharwa is good.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby johnw » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 11:02 am

tqc wrote:
michael_p wrote:The amount of "tourist" walkers on the Coastal Track beggars belief. Last time I was at Garrawarra Farm a young man came up to me and wanted me to show him ,on his phone, how to get to Helensburgh train station. They didn't look like bushwalking types so I decided that giving directions on how to get to Helensburgh was not a good idea and advised that they return to Otford instead.


The most off-course I’ve met would have to be the ones arriving at Wattamolla thinking they might be somewhere near Waterfall. And then there’s the europeans who assume that a road end implies a village with public transport etc.

That’s what the coast track is there for I guess - at least its the sort of track where you can just keep walking and expect to end up somewhere reasonably safe.

Three young ladies in an expensive SUV stopped beside me near Garawarra while I was trying to photograph a goanna that was halfway up a tree. They showed no interest in the large reptile, but wanted to know where they could go swimming. I suggested hiking down to Burning Palms nearby, but apparently that didn't appeal and they wanted to know if there was anywhere closer! On a ridge top of all places :roll:.

michael_p wrote:
johnw wrote:
then an old favourite route down Thelma Ridge to Thelma Head (only a route - not recommended unless you know the area)

Interesting route. I must look into this.

Happy to PM details Michael, let me know.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby johnw » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 11:07 am

Lophophaps wrote:PWS will hopefully be interested in comments such as the above, and may even be able to act on them. The email is
info@environment.nsw.gov.au
This is a head ofice email, and there are local ones, but I could not find out which one to use for Royal NP. Starting at Walhalla and ending up reasonably safe at Tharwa is good.


Email: npws.metrosouthwest@environment.nsw.gov.au

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/contact/SydneySouthParksOffice.htm
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby tqc » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 11:22 am

Lophophaps wrote:PWS will hopefully be interested in comments such as the above, and may even be able to act on them. The email is
info@environment.nsw.gov.au
This is a head ofice email, and there are local ones, but I could not find out which one to use for Royal NP. Starting at Walhalla and ending up reasonably safe at Tharwa is good.


I don’t think there’s anything that needs to be done, or really that can reasonably be done. Even the rather imposing fence at wedding cake rock doesn’t do much more than make it blindingly obvious that falling off is going to be your own fault.

As for the lost tourists, if you find yourself on top of Kosciuszko when trying to walk to the beach, your navigation skills are probably beyond help. Other than that though, getting slightly lost without being in serious trouble is one of the fun things about bushwalking.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby Lophophaps » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 11:48 am

JohnW, thanks. PWS declined to give this to me - i wonder why. TQC, one issue that needs urgent attention is a new genus found mainly between the Bundeena track head and the wedding cake,Toiletus paprypus everywheriam. Having spent several million dollars on an over-engineered track. I'm slightly amazed that there's no toilet at or near the Wedding Cake. Other parts of the track require some attention, notably the steep steps in places, which should be made into switchbacks. Also, the houses can only be left in Wills to immediate family, so over time the houses will be owned by PWS. Instead of removal, why not leave at least the roof and tanks? Why not have a few new campsites? Not hard, just a toilet and a tank. PWS needs to know what we want.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby tqc » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 12:40 pm

Agreed on the need for toilets. Not sure where they would go though - there’s some good locations around the marley fire trails, but wedding cake is a mildly interesting spot on a long narrow track that has inexplicably become a destination in its own right. Adding anything there would likely involve more than just dropping in a toilet.

Personally I avoid that section of track anyway. I don’t mind a busy track, but sometimes that bit is essentially a 4km queue.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby Mark F » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 12:51 pm

tqc wrote:Agreed on the need for toilets. Not sure where they would go though - there’s some good locations around the marley fire trails, but wedding cake is a mildly interesting spot on a long narrow track that has inexplicably become a destination in its own right. Adding anything there would likely involve more than just dropping in a toilet.

Personally I avoid that section of track anyway. I don’t mind a busy track, but sometimes that bit is essentially a 4km queue.

Perhaps a long droop dunny hanging over the cliff edge - should satisfy many of the thrill seekers.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- Bundeena hike

Postby Lophophaps » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 1:05 pm

The main place that needs toilets is to the Wedding Cake, which has thousands of tourists, many of whom lack adequate bladder and bowel control. Mark, brilliant! I'd go further and have a glass floor with the seats facing out to sea. Some tall buildings have a walk that goes out 50-80 metres up with a glass floor, and now Sydney can have The Wedding Cake loo with a view. Suggest it and see what pans out. It's quite important that the foundations be solid and that the building not fall off the cliff. Ha - Wedding Cake WC, or WCWC for short.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby michael_p » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 1:12 pm

tqc wrote:Even the rather imposing fence at wedding cake rock doesn’t do much more than make it blindingly obvious that falling off is going to be your own fault.

It sure doesn't stop the idiots.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby tqc » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 1:25 pm

michael_p wrote:It sure doesn't stop the idiots.


Clearly you were there on a quiet day.

D0CE91A9-690C-41CF-A4D9-E39FC27DA806.jpeg
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby michael_p » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 2:23 pm

It was mid afternoon when I took my photo and was much quieter than earlier in the day. When we first walked past that spot it was well before midday and there were over 20 people on the wrong side the fence.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby puredingo » Wed 29 Nov, 2017 3:05 pm

I honestly can't stand the place anymore. It represents to me everything I try my best to avoid while bushwalking therefore you want catch me walking in the place....which is a shame as I grew up in that NP.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby skibug » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 11:51 am

A couple of points:

Walked part of the track last weekend, got talking to a local (owner of a shack at Little Garie) who was actually doing his own maintenance on the Garie to Little Garie section - apparently he does lots of work with the Park's "blind" approval. He told me the Thelma Head section (Little Garie to North Era) will be done next year, and we discussed the waste of money, seeing as that section was "done" less than ten years ago. It is basically unusable for weeks after rain because of deep pools of water and slick, slippery mud in the "chambers" formed within the wooden steps. Everyone just by-passes the steps, so another informal track has formed in parallel.

When coming into South Era, you can come through the valley, or down the ridgeline, both end up at the beach. The track to North Era starts at the northern end of the beach. The ridgeline track is better as the valley can often be very boggy (due to deer's hooves creating "pot holes" which trap water). I would not recommend going around any of the headlands, there are risks from large waves, rocks are very slippery creating danger of falling, and all those cliffs have frequent rock falls, which you would not want to be under.

Ironically, both Wedding Cake Rock and the Figure Eight Pools have received front page media publicity from people's accidents, causing their growth in popularity over the past few years. If people are dumb enough to climb over or around a fence covered in "Danger!" signs to have the dubious pleasure of sitting on a rock which is really not that much different from many other rocks along that cliff-line, I leave them to their own poor choices.

Toilets. Don't bother asking for toilets here, as Royal National Park has proven (by its North Era toilets) to be incapable of building and maintaining toilets in isolated spots. These three toilets are an absolute disgrace, literally overflowing with human waste, doors that can't be closed, and being used for garbage disposal as well. Obviously, the vandalism and garbage problems are caused by thoughtless campers and walkers, but the Park has conducted no maintenance or other mitigating work in years. They have basically abandoned the problem, and most toileting is now done anywhere but the toilets, as they are so appalling. The fact that the Park charges people to camp here, despite their being no shelter, seats or tables, potable water, garbage removal, nor usable toilets (worse than anything I ever saw during three weeks of trekking 20 years ago in northern Nepal) reflects their disdain for their customers, as well as the complete lack of vision for this potentially world class trek.

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Re: Royal N.P Otford- Bundeena hike

Postby roopass » Sun 03 Dec, 2017 5:21 am

Did the hike, loved it, Tks for all the info, it's really well signed, a magestic place!, and only an hour away from Sydney

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One lucky cottage owner
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Few beaches to cross
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Hike was grand
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Some handy grated paths, so u can enjoy the view better:)

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Eagle rock
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby Flipper Hands » Fri 29 Dec, 2017 10:32 am

johnw wrote: One notable (and disturbing) thing that I encountered were hoards of non-bushwalking types on the track, some playing ghetto blasters at full volume (for want of a better description) who seemed to be all converging at the figure of eight pools. There is now a warning sign at Garrawarra Farm of the risks of being swamped by freak waves at the pools (with photos to illustrate). But this looks like it's having the opposite effect to what was likely intended.


I've been getting down in that area pretty regularly lately, a couple climbs (with 15kg of water as ballast) up and down from Garawarra Farm to South Era or the Burning Palms loop from Garawarra is my go to weekend training for Nepal.

South Era seems to be the most common place to see them. It can be packed with groups with portable noise makers, but not the only place. I have seen them coming up from North Era (heavy packs) with them strapped to the outside of the pack, hidden away in the pack, and even strapped onto belts. Last time I was out I came across a group of young girls sitting enjoying the view on the top of the ridge in from Otford, with the noise maker going full blast.

Its something I have never run into until this year on any walk, and all the perpetrators seem to be millennials. Perhaps some gentle education is in order from all of us?

I often walk with music via headphones, but the idea of publishing to all and sundry in the bush is foreign to me. One of the reasons I avoid any kind of drive in camping sites these days.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby tqc » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 8:17 pm

i met someone at Marley yesterday who told me there was nobody on wedding cake rock when she went past, but there were a couple of security guards watching the fence.

Apparently that’s what it takes to stop stupid.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby wildwanderer » Mon 15 Jan, 2018 6:30 am

tqc wrote:i met someone at Marley yesterday who told me there was nobody on wedding cake rock when she went past, but there were a couple of security guards watching the fence.

Apparently that’s what it takes to stop stupid.


EDIT. Must breathe before posting. :mrgreen:
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby johnw » Mon 15 Jan, 2018 10:08 am

Flipper Hands wrote:
johnw wrote: One notable (and disturbing) thing that I encountered were hoards of non-bushwalking types on the track, some playing ghetto blasters at full volume (for want of a better description) who seemed to be all converging at the figure of eight pools. There is now a warning sign at Garrawarra Farm of the risks of being swamped by freak waves at the pools (with photos to illustrate). But this looks like it's having the opposite effect to what was likely intended.


South Era seems to be the most common place to see them. It can be packed with groups with portable noise makers, but not the only place. I have seen them coming up from North Era (heavy packs) with them strapped to the outside of the pack, hidden away in the pack, and even strapped onto belts. Last time I was out I came across a group of young girls sitting enjoying the view on the top of the ridge in from Otford, with the noise maker going full blast.

Its something I have never run into until this year on any walk, and all the perpetrators seem to be millennials. Perhaps some gentle education is in order from all of us?

Yes, it's the first time I've encountered this in all the years I've walked in RNP. And yes, millennials are the age group concerned.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby RainbowSpirit » Tue 07 Aug, 2018 9:19 am

I'm starting the walk from Otford tomorrow, and will be camping at Era, it will be interesting to see if all the negative things mentioned here happen. My main concern is water, as the place is so dry, looks like I'll have to carry all my water supplies from the start.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby johnw » Tue 07 Aug, 2018 9:59 am

RainbowSpirit wrote:I'm starting the walk from Otford tomorrow, and will be camping at Era, it will be interesting to see if all the negative things mentioned here happen. My main concern is water, as the place is so dry, looks like I'll have to carry all my water supplies from the start.

During the week should be a lot quieter and much more pleasant. School holidays are also finished so I doubt you are likely to have much company. Yes, I think it would be wise to carry all the water you need. That is the general advice given regardless (pain to carry it though). After camping at North Era you may be lucky and find water at Curracurrong and Curracurrang creeks, or at Wottamolla creek flowing into the dam. Personally I don't know if I'd trust these sources, others may differ - I would definitely treat/boil it if there is any. But I was at the northern end of the track maybe 6 weeks ago and it was the driest I have ever seen it.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby tqc » Wed 08 Aug, 2018 9:00 pm

There’s plenty of water there now - the creeks all filled up quite suddenly five weks ago. Still nothing reliable south of era of course.
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Re: Royal N.P Otford- bundeena hike

Postby RainbowSpirit » Sat 11 Aug, 2018 11:10 pm

I ended up carrying about 5 lts to North Era, there is water there in some shallow ponds, but I decided not to filter any there and instead filtered some water at Garie from the shower. A local said he thought I was using an intravenous drip when he saw my gravity feed filter system! In hindsight 3 lts would have been plenty to carry from the start.

There's water in creeks between Garie and Wattamolla, but I already had enough not to use them. There is water available at Wattamolla and just past there at the 'dam'.

I saw very few people south of Garie but once I got close to the Wedding Cake (mid week), the track got a little more crowded.

The toilets at North Era were OK, although the large rubbish bag was overflowing.

I really enjoyed my first real solo bushwalk, and although somewhat stuffed once at Bundeena, I started to feel better. Now for the through walk on the GNW next month...
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