Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

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Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby wildwanderer » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 10:11 am

Fairly big closure. Certain to disapoint a number of tourists and visitors who wont have read the alert. I guess it has to be done though.
Hopefully just for a day or so.

Update 2 – Burn is on again. Jamison Valley trails + Narrow neck closed from Tuesday 1st May 2018 onwards. See national parks website for most up to date info. https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/vi ... cal-alerts

Update - Further info. According to the NSW Rural fire service the actual burn is between Ruined Castle gully (about 2.8km South of Scenic World) and Cedar Creek which is in the south west valley 'behind' Mount Solitary. A significantly sized area. https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-informa ... reductions. And its due to start Tuesday and run for 2 days but closures are from Monday. I hope they dont burn down those water tanks at the Ruined Castle campsite.. I use those!! :P

From NSW National Parks site.

Closed areas: Jamison Valley - all walking tracks and trails closed at Katoomba, Leura and Wentworth Falls

All walking tracks and trails in Jamison Valley will be closed from Monday 9 April 2018 while NSW National Parks staff conduct a hazard reduction burn. The burn will take place between Jamison Valley, Kedumba Valley and Narrow Neck plateau, an area covering approximately 3500ha. This area will remain closed until further notice.

Scenic World will remain open.

Walking trails in the Wild Dog Range area, west and south west of Narrow Neck plateau will remain open.

This closure may be extended and any extension will be posted as soon as possible

http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/vis ... cal-alerts
Last edited by wildwanderer on Sun 08 Apr, 2018 3:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th April+

Postby Warin » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 10:33 am

Hopefully it gets a few weeds.

Next rain possibly due Saturday 14th.
I'd expect it to be smokey in the general area so it may be better to walk in the coastal areas for the next week.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th April+

Postby LachlanB » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 1:27 pm

This sounds like a massive burn- 3500ha is very near the entire valley between Kings Tableland, Narrowneck and Mt Solitary. I wonder what the reasons for conducting it are, and where exactly the burn is planned to go? Of if it's simply yet another pointless hazard reduction burn...

There's no fires marked on the RFS website, so I presume the burn hasn't actually started yet?
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th April+

Postby wildwanderer » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 2:22 pm

I assume the actual burn will be tightly controlled and in limited areas of the valley.The 3500 hectares mentioned is likely just the exclusion zone.

There is significant infrastructure around scenic world that extends quite far down into the valley and is completely integrated with the forest. Scenic World is planned to be open during the burn.

If they just burnt the entire valley all that would go up in smoke not to mention the threat to the clifftop townships.

Still.. it's a interesting call by npws. Forecast to be 28 degrees with 22 km/h winds in Katoomba tomorrow.

EDIT. Updated the original post. The burn area is actually quite large after all.
Last edited by wildwanderer on Sun 08 Apr, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th April+

Postby rcaffin » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 3:32 pm

They have gone mad. The old guard rules still.
All control burns do around here is to make more dead fuel now and more light fuel next year - as well as destroying a lot of rare plants and probably quite a few animals.
Time for a change.

Cheers
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th April+

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 3:40 pm

Massive area. Hope they are keeping tight control over the burn.


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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th April+

Postby Warin » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 3:51 pm

wildwanderer wrote:Still.. it's a interesting call by npws. Forecast to be 28 degrees with 25km/h winds in Katoomba tomorrow.


Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.
I think the aborigines burnt the area more frequently than 'we' do, but they had less substantial infrastructure to loose. And they probably burn far smaller areas, just more frequently.

Humm BOM is 20kmh ... that is in Katoomba .. will probably be less in the valleys.
They may just do low level burns. The wind is from the southwest/northwest so Sydney will probably get some smoke... hope you have the washing done. Tuesday looks to be a better day with less temperature and winds.

My Sat rain forecast is from the BOM. But more detail has only 25% of the models predicting rain then, 33% predict rain on Mon 16th ... but only 0.3 mm. In both cases the predictions are for very light rain.
I hope they have the helios standing by.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby LachlanB » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 4:46 pm

wildwanderer wrote:EDIT. Updated the original post. The burn area is actually quite large after all.


Thanks for the update Wildwanderer.
I'm struggling to see why they need to burn that area. There aren't any exceptionally valuable assets in the area, and they're only putting other NPWS facilities at risk. Plus a lot of the proposed burn area is wet sclerophyll forest which has a lower fire risk anyway. I was expecting they were going to be burning along the northern rim of the valley to protect houses by reducing fuel loads in high risk areas.

But this just a pointless assault on an otherwise quite undisturbed natural area. I agree with Roger- hazard reduction burns are an outdated management option, and have vastly negative environmental outcomes. A symptom of a management culture that just can't accept that sometimes the best way to preserve our bush is to leave it alone.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby crollsurf » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 5:55 pm

I think this is a good sign that NSWNP's have learn't some invaluable lessons from what happened in the Snowy Mountains a while ago.

My understanding is there is no such thing as wilderness on mainland Australia, at least not since Aborigines arrived 10's of thousands of years ago. They saw themselves as custodians of the land and there main tool for managing the land, was fire. Small fires typically. Some areas were burnt almost yearly, some once in a life time.

These environments have evolved around fire and prolonged periods without fire, is a way bigger risk to the flora and fauna.

I can only see this as a good thing, to avert the devastation that occured down in the Snowy Mountains. If anyone is interested in Aboriginal land management practices, there is book called "The Greatest Estate on Earth" that is worth a read.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby wildwanderer » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 6:32 pm

I’m curious how they are going to access the area around Mount Solitary. It’s not like you can drive a firetruck anywhere near the place. Closest would be the Cedar Valley and Cedarland Ridge Trails. And they are on the southerly sides.

How they going to contain the north towards Katoomba/Scenic world? Are they planning to hike in from the Ruined Castle to Ruined Castle Gully/Kedumba river... Good luck!
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby Warin » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 7:18 am

crollsurf wrote:My understanding is there is no such thing as wilderness on mainland Australia, at least not since Aborigines arrived 10's of thousands of years ago. They saw themselves as custodians of the land and there main tool for managing the land, was fire.


There are few areas that were not burnt ... the Wollemi Pine may not exist if all areas were burnt.

------------
In Tasmania there are fire fighters that 'drop in' using aircraft, don't think 'we' have any of them in NSW. So ours will have to walk in - and that means they will have to be very careful - a good thing.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby LachlanB » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 9:21 am

crollsurf wrote:My understanding is there is no such thing as wilderness on mainland Australia, at least not since Aborigines arrived 10's of thousands of years ago. They saw themselves as custodians of the land

Personally, I think the argument that Indigenous custodianship of the land is incompatible with the western concept of wilderness is a false dichotomy. There were highly productive parts of the landscape that were intensively burnt and intensively used. Likewise, there were parts of the landscape that were rarely burnt, and received comparatively little Indigenous visitation. In these areas, the modern pattern of intensive 'wildfires' that NPWS abhors would have naturally dominated- these fires in no way damage the landscape. I'm *NOT* trying to dismiss Indigenous connection to country- the remaining cultural sites in places like the Blue Mountains and Budawangs are more than enough evidence for that.

crollsurf wrote: If anyone is interested in Aboriginal land management practices, there is book called "The Greatest Estate on Earth" that is worth a read.

The problem with 'The Greatest Estate on Earth' is that Bill Gammage seriously abuses his evidence- what he presents is highly selective and ignores anything that doesn't support his argument. Plus, his underlying premise that Aboriginal groups intensively managed the entire country with fire, and vegetation structure is entirely based on this is seriously flawed.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby ribuck » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 11:12 am

Incidentally, most of Kanangra-Boyd NP is also closed Monday 9th - Friday 13th April, for aerial baiting.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby crollsurf » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 12:35 pm

Hi LanchlanB,

The book was written for laymen like myself, but also to undergo scientific rigor, which it has. A number of minor facts have been proved wrong through that process. He probably did omitted some facts to suit his argument but by and large, I think they were accounts/facts that he wasn't aware of at the time.

A lot of the criticism has revolved around as you suggest, Aborigines intensively managing all the land. I don't know where that conclusion comes from. I thought he made it clear that while certain areas where heavily managed, many areas where left untouched for generations.

Back on the Jamison, like wildwander has pointed out, I'm curious about how the parks are going to manage this. Maybe being the end of the fire season, there are a lot of air resources available ATM, be interesting see what happens.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby johnw » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 1:39 pm

crollsurf wrote:Back on the Jamison, like wildwander has pointed out, I'm curious about how the parks are going to manage this. Maybe being the end of the fire season, there are a lot of air resources available ATM, be interesting see what happens.

Can't comment on any specifics but NPWS have two of their own choppers that are kept very busy over a wide variety of operations, including for remote fire management purposes at times. That said, like several others, I'm not in favour of burning the Jamison.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby Lith » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 2:54 pm

Shame, I was hoping to pop up to Solitary to see if someone replaced the log book. Guess I should probably check the warnings more often. Not as disappointed though as the tourists who probably spent thousands of dollars just to see a "closed" sign and a bunch of smoke.

I'm not a fan of burning the Jamison but surely it's required at some point? Not burning it would just result in a huge buildup over the years that would eventually spark up and with the WWF/L/K combo on its edge, we'd probably end up with another "the great fire of leura" film.

I've heard that thats the problem with the Grose right now, it's been neglected for so long that its basically a tinder pit and doing any controlled burns at all is extremely risky as it'd be pretty hard to control.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby Mark F » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 3:05 pm

The normal profile for build up of litter on the forest floor after a fire is a rapid buildup in the first few years after the fire which tapers off to steady state in the longer term where breakdown of the fallen litter matches the deposition of new litter. The actual duration and scale is dependent on the type of forest and climate.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April Postponed

Postby Warin » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 11:09 am

From the NP website ...
"The Jamison Valley hazard reduction planned for today has been postponed until further notice. All tracks and trails are now open."
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 2:14 pm

Interesting... I wonder what caused the rethink. Possibly the 45km/h winds forecast for thursday and they were concerned that there would still be hot spots around the burn sites that could flare up in high winds.

Or maybe once on the ground they reached a greater appreciation of the challenges in containing the fire with the limited road access available.

Either way good news in my view.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby Warin » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 3:11 pm

wildwanderer wrote:Interesting... I wonder what caused the rethink.


Possibly other burns overrunning their times?

I think some 6,000 ha is pushing any limit .. I would prefer a lot less area, making it easier on the animals, countryside and the people doing the work.

Hopefully they rethink it to a much smaller area.
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Re: Jamison Valley Closed. Monday 9th -12 April+

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 26 Apr, 2018 5:57 pm

and so it begins again :evil: Spent this week being choked by smoke while bushwalking.. lets do it all again next week!

New update from National Parks.

Closed areas: Mount Solitary hazard reduction burn - walking tracks and trails closed

All walking tracks and trails listed below are closed due to the implementation of the Mount Solitary hazard reduction burn, from Tuesday 1 May 2018 onwards, until the area can be made safe. The closed areas are:

Dardanelles Pass loop walking track
Den Fenella walking track
Echo Point to Scenic World via Giant Stairway
Federal Pass
Fern Bower walk
Leura Cascades Fern Bower
Mount Solitary walking track
Narrow Neck trail
Round walking track
Ruined Castle walking track
Golden Stairs
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby ribuck » Fri 27 Apr, 2018 9:53 am

Well THAT will cost the tourist industry some dollars.
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby Allchin09 » Fri 27 Apr, 2018 9:24 pm

Just a heads up, but possible that the closure will last at least two weeks. Apparently aiming to have the area opened by the Ultra Marathon on 18th/19th May.
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby wildwanderer » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 4:48 pm

Looks like burn has been moved yet again... 7th May According to RFS site. Burn has disapeared from NPWS site.

I wonder how many have cancelled and then rebooked their holiday accommodation based on the scheduled burn. Only to have it shift again..

Not to mention day trippers who cancel their visit.

Must be costing the tourism industry up there serious dollars now.

Frustrating because IMO this is a pointless burn of 3476 hectares of one of the best tourism assets the state has.

I do also wonder what the impact will be on the rain forest/wet sclerophyll vegetation near narrow neck/cedar creek. Will it grow back? or will we get fire hardened species like acacia and lantana in its place?
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby LachlanB » Tue 08 May, 2018 12:14 pm

Looks like the hazard reduction burn has started-- got a marker on the Fires Near Me map, although no footprint yet.

Plus NSW RFS has posted this map on Facebook of the area of the burn:
Solitary HRB Map.jpg
Map of Burn Area
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby Neo » Tue 08 May, 2018 2:18 pm

Thanks for the update, will check the app.
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 08 May, 2018 4:30 pm

Sydney basin is smokey today... What I'm not sure of is, are they going to raze that whole area or multiple selected sections within that massive area? Can't imagine they'd burn the whole of Mt Solitary.
Just move it!
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby michael_p » Tue 08 May, 2018 4:55 pm

7 news this afternoon had video of the burn. Looks like they had set alight the whole valley along the north side of Solitary. Good chance the top of Solitary will get burnt by the looks of it. We'll have to wait and see how far it goes up the hill.
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby Neo » Tue 08 May, 2018 4:59 pm

Pfff. D heads says Neo.
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Re: Update: Jamison Valley closed from 1 May 2018 onwards

Postby LachlanB » Tue 08 May, 2018 5:16 pm

Yeah, there's a photo of it on their Facebook. It looks like the whole mountain is on fire!
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