Overnight minimum for Blue Gum Forest in August?

[flatfoot]

I'm going on an overnight walk into the Blue Gum Forest in August. What overnight temperatures can I expect at that time of year?

Lithgow is forecast for -3 overnight ... brrrr!

[johnw]

I'm going on an overnight walk into the Blue Gum Forest in August. What overnight temperatures can I expect at that time of year?

Lithgow is forecast for -3 overnight ... brrrr!

BOM stats as a guide:
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/200908/html/IDCJDW2087.200908.shtml
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_063039.shtml

I've camped down there in (from memory) March and October which were quite mild. Have overnighted in other places around the Blue Mtns in winter and it can get very chilly. I do feel the cold more than some, but suggest a minimum of a good 3 season tent, decent sleeping bag (comfort level zero or better), insulated mat or thin foam insulation on the tent floor and thermals. It can be a bit warmer down there than up the top as you're 600m lower and it's more protected, but may get frosty. Lovely spot despite its popularity, enjoy it.

[eddie the eagle]

If you're talking about the Blue Gum forest just below Katoomba, Flatfoot, then I grew up in the next set of ranges (Central West, 900-950m ASL.)

July is the Brass Monkey Weather. It starts to moderate in August, but not very much. September sees a sudden change in weather with the arrival of spring temperatures and the lack of frosts.

The temperature at 300m ASL would be different to that 900m up. If it's snowing 900m up, it'll be sleet or cold rain when it gets to you. The town I grew up in has hills on all four sides, and was very cold in winter as the cold air rolled down and settled in the valley every night, a bit like Lithgow, but there's a spot for the cold air to flow out of the Lithgow valley. In sheltered spots, it was warmer on top of the hills.

The overnight temperature would depend on wind and cloud cover more than most, if it's a still, clear night, you'd be very cold, but with a bit of wind and cloud cover, it could be mild IF there's somewhere for the cold air to flow to. I always plan on cold air settling into a valley overnight.

As John said, pack for below freezing -> better to be overly warm than the other option.

disclaimer: Have not been through the Blue Gum forest, so general location information only based upon 10 years of very cold winters and local(ish) experience.

Cheers,

eddie

edit: long term weather averages for Katoomba.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_063039.shtml

Check the temperature difference between Oberon/Jenolan State Forest and Jenolan Caves - the caves are in a steep valley, and average zero temps all through July and August, while Oberon/Forest average about 2°.

[Greenie]

I am planning to do the six foot track in late July. So those temps would be the same for overnight in the Megalong Valley. I hope that cold air blows over to the Jamieson Valley instead!

[flatfoot]

If you're talking about the Blue Gum forest just below Katoomba, Flatfoot, then I grew up in the next set of ranges (Central West, 900-950m ASL.)

Yep, that's the one. Thanks for the research and insights.

The coldest camping I've ever experienced was in the Victorian High country. From memory that was in April and the zips on the tent were frozen shut. The dew on the canvas was also frozen.

[WarrenH]

Well young Grasshoppers, it's like this ... from the olden days (I am actually older than Yoda) I've always lit a candle lantern in the tent at night during winter (a 12 hour candle, hanging off a $2 carabiner). It wasn't because I was scared of the dark but because there is no condensation to wake up to. No hoary frosts that made my tents look like giant Echidnas and no frozen zippers that are most shocking and affecting at the wrong time before sun-up ... no frozen zipper has ever stopped me rushing off into the bush.

One thing that I am doing tomorrow is, the seam sealer trick again, on my Trilogy. Resealing the inside seams of the fly and the four seams on the corners of the tub floor ... without the candle lantern burning at night the Trilogy (A Fairydown Trilogy not just a modern pretend Trilogy) would be like a big cold bathtub in the morning. Get with the programme young Grasshoppers, if you're not already there or be square ... even in a tunnel.

Warren.

PS, I'm back. I apologise for misleading you all, they are only 9 hour candles and they're from the UCO Corporation. I've had my candle lantern for 27 years, and nothing has changed, I see. The lack of change, is so refreshing for a change ... http://candlelantern.com/ Make no bones about it, even in the worst conditions, a candle lantern warms a tent just enough and with a silk sheet adding a few extra degrees of warmth to the bag even camping around Oberon is made tolerable ... only just.

[mountnman]

I am planning to do the six foot track in late July. So those temps would be the same for overnight in the Megalong Valley. I hope that cold air blows over to the Jamieson Valley instead!

It snowed at Black Range camp last year when we did the Six Foot Track (in October) - It was well below freezing.....

Next time I plan on taking thermals, just in case!

[ninjapuppet]

Interesting setup Warren, going to give it a try in my single skin tents.
so you would carry 5 candles for 5 nights out in the bush?
what if its windy? any chance of the candle tipping over and burning your tent to bits?

[WarrenH]

ninjapuppet, G'day.

I hang the candle lantern from a tab on the roof of the inner tent using a 550kg caribiner. It isn't a weight issue but a distance issue. This has the lantern's heat shield hanging about 18cm from the roof. If it is windy and the tent is getting hammered it isn't an issue to the lantern. One of the guys working at Paddy Pallin told me about doing this when I first started buying camping gear. One warning is don't knock the lantern because the molten wax will be wasted by falling to the bottom of the lantern and get onto the glass and seriously shorten the life of the candle.

I've had my Fairydown Trilogy for as long as I've had the lantern and there is no build up of carbon or any staining what-so-ever in the roof of the inner tent. I do keep the lantern clean. I clean the lantern after each trip.

These are the components of the 'Original' candle lantern. I've replaced the glass once. The spring is only around the candle below so that it is evident in the photo. The spring sits below the candle and pushes the candle up, to the bottom of the glass. There is an observation port to show how much candle is left. 5 candles for five days? if needed ... but 4 candles would normally do. This is one small luxury where I don't mind the expense. I think that a person exhales about half a litre of moisture during a night's sleep? ... well we all know what condensation does to that amount of moisture in a small tent.




Warren.

[geoskid]

Thanks Warren, fantastic info - I will definitely look into getting one.
Seems so simple when someone shows you the light. (as always).
Geoskid

[WarrenH]

geoskid, you are most welcome.

I see the lanterns come with a fleece pouch if you buy a kit that includes 3 candles. I bought a UCO leather pouch, the leather looks the real deal and masculine.

Warren.

[Son of a Beach]

I used to use a candle lantern before head torches became acceptably small, but never thought to leave it burning in the tent while sleeping.

Sounds like a good idea for those cold condensation-prone nights. However, I think the additional light would keep me awake (moonlight often does too - I don't sleep much on bushwalks! ). I guess some sort of shading arrangement could also be rigged up for photo-senstitive-sleepers like me, so long as it wasn't close or flimsy enough to burn.

[WarrenH]

G'day, Nik.

There are several accessories for the candle lantern shown on the UCO site. One of the two piece 1 oz. reflectors looks like it could be turned upright, sprayed with any temperature resistant black paint (the spray can paint used on auto engines is extremely heat resistant) to absorb light and slid down to the bottom of the glass. I'll investigate this possibility. I have a Dremel Tool, which modifies lots of things. I'm not much of a sleeper either. I dare say a shield made from the heavier caterer's aluminium foil and sprayed black, the stuff some walkers make wind shields for Iso-propane burners from, would do the same job.

I see on the UCO site that they also have 12-15 hour natural bee's wax candles. If these are a realistic price they could revolutionise the candle life-vrs-value component of the exercise. On the site it says that the natural bee's wax candles burn cleaner that the traditional UCO candles. I thought that the old candles were good.

Warren.

[wellsy]

Bluegum Forest is more or less just down the road and over the cliff from my house in Blackheath. For August camping at Acacia Flat I'd just make sure you take thermals, beanie, wool bed socks, 0 degree sleeping bag or better. If you find it a bit cold at night you can always wear your jumper to bed or take a silk sleeping bag liner. I've found this more than adequate and I don't use a tent (which will give you a bit more warmth. Acacia Flat camping area is around 320meters above sea level as compared to Blackheath's 1065 meters asl.

[Drifting]

I've copped -10 in the Blue Mountains, during Easter. VERY cold.

[flatfoot]

Bluegum Forest is more or less just down the road and over the cliff from my house in Blackheath. For August camping at Acacia Flat I'd just make sure you take thermals, beanie, wool bed socks, 0 degree sleeping bag or better. If you find it a bit cold at night you can always wear your jumper to bed or take a silk sleeping bag liner. I've found this more than adequate and I don't use a tent (which will give you a bit more warmth. Acacia Flat camping area is around 320meters above sea level as compared to Blackheath's 1065 meters asl.

This trip is a mega test of all the gear I've been purchasing over the last 3-4 months. I'll be testing tent, sleeping bag liner, sleeping mat, thermals, multi-day pack and walking poles. There are also lots of other minor items. I'll be particularly interested in the performance of the sleep mat (exped downmat).

I've only recently taken up bushwalking after a background of vehicle-based camping in recent years. From a gearing up perspective, the only things I didn't need to buy were my boots and sleeping bag (each of these items being over 10 years old).

[wellsy]

Don't take all your gear or at least try to keep your packweight down to 9kg or less because it's a stiff climb up Perrys or Govett's. Good drinking water for the campsite can be had from Orangutan Creek which is only about a four minute walk from Acacia Flat. You'll want to carry one to one and a half litres of water for the climb up Perrys.

Regards,
Allan W

[melinda]

Flatfoot,
I'm sure you will love the downmat. They are heaven. Bit heavy but comfy.
(Why did you sell the Neoair??)
Wellsy's advice on Perrys and Govetts is 100% right. (Advice from Wellsy is always solid!)
Both of these are big climbs.
Great training hills.
Melinda
PS Wellsy, I still have a sore tail!

[flatfoot]

Flatfoot,
I'm sure you will love the downmat. They are heaven. Bit heavy but comfy.
(Why did you sell the Neoair??)
Wellsy's advice on Perrys and Govetts is 100% right. (Advice from Wellsy is always solid!)
Both of these are big climbs.
Great training hills.
Melinda
PS Wellsy, I still have a sore tail!

The downmat is fantastic! I used it @ Acacia Flat on the 7th and also at the Lake Macquarie Rogaine.

We used Orangutan creek for water. The climb up Govetts was certainly a hard but enjoyable slog.

I decided that the neoair looked a little fragile.

I walked down Perrys and up to Du Faur Head on Saturday morning with two others as a last-minute fitness walk. We were back at the cars @ Perrys by midday. I was told there was sleet in Blackheath on Saturday morning.

I'm walking into Blue Gum again on Saturday!

[melinda]

Hi Flatfoot,
Might see you out there.
We do Govetts/Pulpit Rock/Perrys/Blue Gum/Lockleys/Blue Gum/Junction Rock/Govetts as a training walk quite often.
Great place to get a bit of hill fitness going.
Melinda

[flatfoot]

Hi Flatfoot,
Might see you out there.
We do Govetts/Pulpit Rock/Perrys/Blue Gum/Lockleys/Blue Gum/Junction Rock/Govetts as a training walk quite often.
Great place to get a bit of hill fitness going.
Melinda

How long does that take typically?

My walking fitness has certainly improved in the last few months. Generally after a long/steep daywalk I no longer experience much in the way of aches the following day.

I've seen bushwalkers about earlyish in Blackheath grabbing coffee. I frequently meet for club walks in Blackheath. The time seems too early for daytrippers from Sydney.

[melinda]

Hi Flatfoot,
Govetts, Perrys, Lockleys and then back up Govetts usually takes 9 to 10 hours or so. (Always have a head torch with me in case I'm coming up the stairs in the dark. Been known to happen more than once.)
You have to keep moving. Can't waste too much time lying on you back looking at the trees.
We frequently meet for walks at Blackheath at 8am. Quick dash into the bakery and hopefully the Altitude deli is open in time to get a coffee!!!!

[flatfoot]

You have to keep moving. Can't waste too much time lying on you back looking at the trees.

I personally like Little Blue Gum for that purpose. We walked in from Victoria Falls on the 7th. I was quite tired by the time we reached Little Blue Gum. I took the pack off and gazed up at the trees.

This is a photo I took soon after ... although I was standing for this shot:

I also use the Altitude Deli for coffee. Great coffee! I found that they open at 7am.