Wollemi creek

[DarrenM]

Just wondering what type of terrain I could expect if heading down Wollemi creek. From a Packraft perspective, would it be one big portage until the Colo?
I'm assuming Dave N may hold the good oil.
Thanks in advance for any info, much appreciated. PM's if it's a sensitive issue.

[curlywood]

This is most definitely a sensitive wilderness area.

[curlywood]

I do not mean to offend any users of this forum but I do not understand why people always have to ask for info on areas. Get out there and explore and you'll soon see what the terrain is like.
There's something really great about going into a new area with a topo map and a little sense of adventure.

[DarrenM]

Point taken. I didn't ask for details of access. I asked from a packraft perspective whether it would be one big portage. I also mentioned that PM's would be the way to go.
As for finding out myself and why people always ask for info on areas? Because only a fool wouldn't do homework before venturing into new terrain. I'm aware that having the word Wollemi in the thread title is equivalent to having baby fur seals up there so, once again PM's would be fine.
As for having an adventure with memorable mistakes, epics etc....I've had plenty hence the question. I'm not interested in anything other than running tributaries into the Colo.
Perhaps I went the wrong way about it. Thanks for the reply Curlywood.

[walkinTas]

Two quick rule reminders:

1. Keep all content friendly, polite...
18. Avoid posting detailed information on accessing sensitive areas without recognised tracks to public topics, but rather use private messages, email, or other non-public means to communicate such information instead. Feel free to ask questions about such areas publicly, so long as the post includes a reminder of this rule to get answers privately only

So it is OK to ask questions about the area, but not OK to post details on access or routes. And please, if you do walk in sensitive areas be extra careful and stringently stick to low impact walking principles.

[DaveNoble]

I have not walked along that much of Wollemi Ck - but have crossed it plenty of times in different places. I can remember on one trip having to dig out holes in the sand in the creekbed - so we could cool off in the water - so its not very deep in places! In other places there are lots of logs and boulders - so probably not the best for pack-rafts or lilos. Colo is much better.

Dave

[DarrenM]

Thanks Dave, I figured as much from the Topo. It looked interesting but I think I'll hunt for a tad more water. Thanks again.

[tom_brennan]

Wollemi Creek is open enough to be visible on all of the Lands Dept aerial photos
http://lite.maps.nsw.gov.au/
so why not have a look at them? The rapids are all visible, pretty much down to the large boulders, as are the sandy reaches. You'll get a good idea of how much portaging there is, even though the pictures were probably taken at a slightly lower water level. Of course, getting in to Wollemi Creek is a different story...

[DarrenM]

Thanks Tom. I looked at a similar mapping tool (cant for the life of me find it again) and thought the same thing. Over Christmas, I came down Rocky creek and onto the Wolgan then out to the Hawkesbury and found although the Wolgan looked Ok on the SAT view, it was a different story on the job. The creek does look deeper.

[juxtaposer]

Wollemi Creek has been canoed from Putty Creek to the Colo: slow going with many portages, as I think anyone would expect. The lower sections have been liloed. Bushwalkers have always got ideas for walks from reading articles and from discussions with other bushwalkers. Has there ever been a time when this has not been the case? Wollemi is the state's biggest wilderness, there are no sign posts out there. A bit of online discussion is not going to change this in a hurry.

[kanangra]

Darren,

That sounds an interesting walk. Care to post more details. i remember the lower Wolgan from years ago. Followed it from Newnes down to the wollemi junction then back up the Capertee to Glen Davis. Good walk that. Camped two nights at the Capertee junction. Not a great camp site as i recall.

k.

[SteveJ]

Off the topic but..have you considered Harrys Ck from Jenolan Caves to the Coxes R? Looks a good packraft trip to me.

Steve

[DarrenM]

Juxtaposer - Thanks for the reply. What a mission it would be with Canoes!! Very impressed.

Kanangra - Anyone who walks as opposed to using some form of flotation earns respect in my book. As for the junction...You're right, not much happening there. I arrived late in the day, quite buggered from the Wolgan and continued further down the Colo. I have sent you a PM.

Steve - I haven't looked into this one yet, but sounds good. Spose a little rain would be good for an easier run. My schedule is filling up rapidly and I look forward to seeing how your other trip goes too. Thanks mate.

[SteveJ]

Rain is falling as we speak, levels are looking good and we have 4 starters, should be a fun few days on the river. You will have to put the upper Tuross on your to-do list at some stage, it is a fun paddle.

Steve

[kanangra]

Steve,

Sorry to have to tell you this but the Harrys is too small for packrafts at all. It is difficult enough to walk. Particularly in the Hellgate Gorge. There is also another canyon lower down not far from the coxs junction. Camping is also limited. There is a lovely spot on a flat downstream of the Lower Canyon and then not much till the road crossing at the old farm.

K.

[SteveJ]

I have fished up a few k's of the lower section (granted in winter after a lot of rain) and it looked like a plausable trip to me . I guess the true beauty of a pack raft is that if there ain't enough water, then they slip into a pack pretty easily and off you go on foot Thanks for the heads up. I would love to walk/raft the entire length of the Kowmung too but I imagine it would require a fair rain to make it partially raftable. Didn't you walk the length of the Kowmung river K ? (sorry to digress Darren)

Steve

[curlywood]

Wollemi Creek has been canoed from Putty Creek to the Colo: slow going with many portages, as I think anyone would expect. The lower sections have been liloed. Bushwalkers have always got ideas for walks from reading articles and from discussions with other bushwalkers. Has there ever been a time when this has not been the case? Wollemi is the state's biggest wilderness, there are no sign posts out there. A bit of online discussion is not going to change this in a hurry.

Yes bushwalkers have gotten trip ideas from other bushwalkers and if it's by word of mouth then the amount that news spreads is a lot less. Also, people can be sensitive about who they give info to. I strongly disagree with a lot of articles that are written too. If this kind of info is posted on the net or published in WILD then I'm sorry but I disagree with you when you say it won't change in a hurry.
Sadly it already is.
I have spent a good deal of time in this area and have seen its usage increase markedly. I have cleaned up a LOT of stashes/rubbish that people with no regard for others have left behind. I find it deeply saddening that more and more people with little or no regard for minimal impact principals are using/abusing these places.
There is no way of censoring who looks at info that is posted on the net and how do you know if they have similar ethics to you or I?

[DarrenM]

Curlywood, I understand where you are coming from. I personally treat every area I visit with an equal amount of care and respect whether its in the Wollemi or not.
For the record, I carry in and carry out, including human waste in sensitive areas. I have seen first hand the rubbish on the Colo and actually carried out other peoples waste.
I will be careful about asking or posting info on access to any area from here on in but still haven't actually asked for any.

Why would any creek or river hold significant status over another? They are all sensitive. I find it odd that people think because they are part of a secretive group only known about by speaking in hushed tones, hold any more right than the next person to visit a wilderness area. This is a bushwalking site isn't it?

(With all due respect)

[curlywood]

Why would any creek or river hold significant status over another? They are all sensitive. I find it odd that people think because they are part of a secretive group only known about by speaking in hushed tones, hold any more right than the next person to visit a wilderness area. This is a bushwalking site isn't it?

I understand what you're saying Darren and I'm sure you do treat these places with respect. I do believe that some people have more right to visit true wilderness areas as they have put in the time needed to become educated on how to treat these places and how to make sure they are not going to become unstuck through inexperience. This is not to say that this education should be limited to a select few. These are wild unforgiving places and that is what you and I love about them.
In most pursuits and professions people undertake training in the basics before moving on to more serious endeavors. By keeping knowledge of these wild places with people who have this experience it can help to protect them. A new builders apprentice will not be given the task of putting up a roof on his own in his first week would he? I've met plenty of people who would love to go into the wilds but through talking to them of their experiences I have seen that they are not yet ready. This doesn't mean that I won't help them to gain the experience necessary it just means that I won't speak of these truly wild places with them just yet. I firmly believe you need to earn your stripes so to speak.
There seem to be a lot of people now who think that they can wander off into remote areas without sound map and compass skills simply because they have the holy GPS! This will work for most of them most of the time but what happens when the batteries die?
Also there seem to be other people who go into these areas thinking that "I can't get lost if I build a stone cairn every twenty metres or put pink tape around the trees to find my way back". This is totally disrespectful of the next person who has to look at their tell tale signs the whole way when they are supposed to be experiencing the wilds.
I understand why people build cairns, use pink tape or a GPS. They need to feel they are safe and can find their way home. But wilderness areas are not the place for this. These people only do this as they don't know any better and it makes sense to them. They are not educated and not ready to be where they are.
I believe it's all about educating people and using educated discretion.

minor moderation: quoting. See here for more details.

[juxtaposer]

Curlywood, you make some very valid points. To those who are not prepared to practice minimal impact I say stay out of the bush, take up tennis or touch football. Those who are I encourage to walk in wilderness areas, it makes people more dedicated conservationists, and we need them badly. Actually, the cat 's been out of the bag for many years regarding the Wollemi - think of all the publicity it has got since the discovery of the Wollemi Pine (try keeping something like that a secret). WILD has from time to time presented features on parts of the Wollemi Wilderness, I have always enjoyed reading these and would only object if they published a flood of them in a short period of time, which, responsibly, they have not done.

A lot of messes I've found in the bush can be put down to inexperienced walkers, trips where the leader(s) does not have proper bushwalking experience. This is how mistakes are made, parties find themselves out of their depth and might start dumping items to lessen pack weights. I saw such a deposit at the Colo-Wollangambe junction that consisted of excess clothing and minor camping items, a dirty stone fire ring with foil etc. In this society I think we will always be bemoaning this. Another time I found the pieces of a smashed up canoe in the lower end of Bowen's Creek - I'd like to know the story to that! Suggesting that people just get the map and go charging out into the bush and learn from the mistakes they make may be good advice to some, but not to all.

[kanangra]

Yes I have walked/ rafted most of the Kowmung though not in one trip. Years ago I did a trip through the Morong Deep from the ford to the Uni rover trail. Definitely not raftable that section. We took lilos and struggled with those. Took 5 days. Best bit was a section low down that I named Conglomerate Canyon. Never heard anybody describe it and it isn't on any map but it is there all right. It is beween Hatchers hollow and Black snake Bend. That is all i will say. Below there the river is definitely raftable all the way to the ford below Gingra. A bit of a fresh is nice. Christmas just gone was excellent after Dec rains. Below the ford you need good water and I am still to do the last section from New Yards Bend to the Coxs.

Since all the cattle have been removed the banks are hard going in many places and a raft is a good way to travel.

K

[DarrenM]

Maybe another thread should be created, titled, "How to gain Experience in wilderness area's and who is qualified to be there".

...and IMO this would be a fairly inaccurate assumption of most fisherfolk I know of that fish fresh water.

If you do a google on Wollemi Creek you'll find posts put up by fishermen on fishing sites who no doubt are experienced fishermen but on the other hand are definitely not experienced in wild remote areas. This is dangerous both for these people and the places we hold dear. Maybe these blokes need to start in areas that are less remote and have already been widely publicized.

Are you insinuating that fisherman are dangerous for the Wollemi?

I'm not sure you are educating us in this particular thread as I take a quick glance around....Seems to be some knowledgeable, experienced, passionate bushwalkers here who also fish walk and raft. Pretty sure we're all in the same trench Curlywood.

Also there seem to be other people who go into these areas thinking that "I can't get lost if I build a stone cairn every twenty metres or put pink tape around the trees to find my way back". This is totally disrespectful of the next person who has to look at their tell tale signs the whole way when they are supposed to be experiencing the wilds.
I understand why people build cairns, use pink tape or a GPS. They need to feel they are safe and can find their way home. But wilderness areas are not the place for this. These people only do this as they don't know any better and it makes sense to them. They are not educated and not ready to be where they are.
I believe it's all about educating people and using educated discretion.

Flooding a thread with environmental issues based on an assumption is probably counter productive for me personally but getting your message out there is important none the less, so keep fighting the good fight.

Wow..it's been a bumpy landing but I feel I'm amongst friends as I head on through customs.

Peace.

[climberman]

Wow curlywood, as a flyfishing, packrafting, climbing, bushwalker, I'm not sure how to take your posts. I think I'll take them with a cup of tea. If I can be honest, it's that 'elitist' attitude that saw me avoid bushwalkers for quite a few years.

I'm sure though I'll come around to your view when I am as good as you.

[curlywood]

Wow curlywood, as a flyfishing, packrafting, climbing, bushwalker, I'm not sure how to take your posts. I think I'll take them with a cup of tea. If I can be honest, it's that 'elitist' attitude that saw me avoid bushwalkers for quote a few years.
"I'm sure though I'll come around to your view when I am as good as you."

Please don't take me the wrong way. I flyfish, climb, canyon, walk and explore too. I sincerely have not meant to offend anyone. I don't believe I'm any better than anyone else and I'm definitely not an elitist, far from it. I take plenty of newbies out into the bush and love to see them learn and get so much out of it.

I feel passionately about the wild places I visit and it saddens me deeply to see them disrespected by uneducated and/or lazy people.

[curlywood]

I'm not sure you are educating us in this particular thread as I take a quick glance around....Seems to be some knowledgeable, experienced, passionate bushwalkers here who also fish walk and raft. Pretty sure we're all in the same trench Curlywood.

I agree with you here but that is not my point. All I'm trying to get across is that it is not only knowledgeable, experienced and passionate walkers who will stumble across the information that is posted on these forums. Anyone can find it. Unfortunately the consequence of so much information, and not even necessarily direct/explicit information, being so freely available in our modern world is that so many of our beautiful places suffer.

[DarrenM]

See what I'm saying?

Nope.

[walkinTas]

Maybe another thread should be created, titled, "How to gain Experience in wilderness area's and who is qualified to be there".

Excellent idea. You could use the forum or the Wiki to post information that will help educate novice bushwalkers. I think there are many threads here that already do just that, but if you have specific ideas in mind, please give it a go.

[DarrenM]

Maybe another thread should be created, titled, "How to gain Experience in wilderness area's and who is qualified to be there".

Excellent idea. You could use the forum or the Wiki to post information that will help educate novice bushwalkers. I think there are many threads here that already do just that, but if you have specific ideas in mind, please give it a go.

I believe this is Curly's area of expertise....I was actually just throwing the ball over the fence to focus on packrafting and walking in the Wollemi. It's a great debate although now the thread has been sufficiently derailed and I have gained some information on the original question I'll move on. Thanks for all the information and discussion.

Much appreciated. Darren.

[SteveJ]

Deleted.

[curlywood]

I see people have taken me the wrong way. I'll leave it.