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Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 07 Jan, 2018 1:02 pm
by paidal_chalne_vala
I think In May the days will be too short and you might hit a snow storm .You may be caught in a white out or a wind driven hail storm in May , right when you don't want any more obstacles or challenges in addition to the insane spur climb through post bush fire regrowth jungle.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 07 Jan, 2018 3:23 pm
by Glast75
Thanks for the reply’s. I only got them after we completed the track yesterday. I hope below I don’t sound to melodramatic, but do I not want anyone to put themselves in harms way thinking Hannels is a nice medium level hike.
Hannels spur has changed a hell of a lot in 12years since I last did it.
12 years ago I did the track with no GPS, didn’t really need the map and very little bush bashing.
Oh how things have changed, the first 20% and last 15% of the track was pretty much how I remembered it, the 65% in the middle was hell on earth. Stew63 hats off to you... you must be ex SAS!
The track is poorly marked and heavily overgrown, GPS with the track downloaded is a must, and thank god I had had it or we would still be up there.
We left at 6.20 from Geehi Flats and arrived at Moira’s camp at 2.20pm. Left Moira’s at 3pm and got to Byatts camp at 5.15pm- Byatts was the highlight, it is a great camping spot, but next I’ll come from Thredbo and go back to Thredbo. I’m afraid to say it but in my opinion the bush has taken Hannels spur back.
To complete Hannels you need to be experienced in working a GPS, love bush bashing, have good fitness and a strong will - otherwise you will be defeated and have to turn around - that would be best case scenario. Worst case injured, dehydrated, lost or worse.
It is a safety hazard if you are not experienced, the achievement of making it to Byatts camp is great but their are a lot of other better walks to do.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 07 Jan, 2018 6:30 pm
by Stew63
puredingo wrote:One whole year is a hellava lead-up, pcv! I'm going to hit it in May. if anybody's keen to accompany me feel free because I won't really know what I'm doing?


Definitely keep me in mind - but I don't think it will be a day hike in May.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jan, 2018 3:47 pm
by paidal_chalne_vala
Glast75 wrote:Thanks for the reply’s. I only got them after we completed the track yesterday. I hope below I don’t sound to melodramatic, but do I not want anyone to put themselves in harms way thinking Hannels is a nice medium level hike.
Hannels spur has changed a hell of a lot in 12years since I last did it.
12 years ago I did the track with no GPS, didn’t really need the map and very little bush bashing.
Oh how things have changed, the first 20% and last 15% of the track was pretty much how I remembered it, the 65% in the middle was hell on earth. Stew63 hats off to you... you must be ex SAS!
The track is poorly marked and heavily overgrown, GPS with the track downloaded is a must, and thank god I had had it or we would still be up there.
We left at 6.20 from Geehi Flats and arrived at Moira’s camp at 2.20pm. Left Moira’s at 3pm and got to Byatts camp at 5.15pm- Byatts was the highlight, it is a great camping spot, but next I’ll come from Thredbo and go back to Thredbo. I’m afraid to say it but in my opinion the bush has taken Hannels spur back.
To complete Hannels you need to be experienced in working a GPS, love bush bashing, have good fitness and a strong will - otherwise you will be defeated and have to turn around - that would be best case scenario. Worst case injured, dehydrated, lost or worse.
It is a safety hazard if you are not experienced, the achievement of making it to Byatts camp is great but their are a lot of other better walks to do.

I imagined it would be as you describe it :-0 . It has gone down the list of must do tracks and treks . There are other KNP walks that are in my in tray.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:06 am
by puredingo
Stew63 wrote:
puredingo wrote:One whole year is a hellava lead-up, pcv! I'm going to hit it in May. if anybody's keen to accompany me feel free because I won't really know what I'm doing?


Definitely keep me in mind - but I don't think it will be a day hike in May.


Whatever you think is a good thing, mate I'll be up for. I'm pretty flexible with dates/times but be warned... I haven't been in the snow before although totally game!!

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 2:52 pm
by rcaffin
GPS with the track downloaded is a must,

Hardly.
Look, you are going UP a spur. As long as you keep going UP, and trying to stick to the crest, you will get there. Sure, dodge around bits of scrub by all means - and remember which way you dodged. Mind you, dodging may not win you much, so don't spend too much time worrying about it.

Now downhill - that's a very different thing! Much more difficult. Go down gullies instead - Lady Northcote Canyon for instance. (Then back up Hannels.)

All this dependence on a GPS - learn to navigate instead. (Ducks for cover.)

Cheers
Roger

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm
by RVG
Roger's right. It is easier to find your way up a spur BUT it is not foolproof. The topo map has 20m contours and they can hide a multitude of undulations which can set you off at a tangent.

Just to keep these notes in the public domain the following track notes for Hannels Spur may be helpful, but, like elsewhere in the Park, what was doable 10 years ago may be much less so today.

Track notes for Hannels Spur – Robert Green

About 2007 I went down Hannels Spur. It was shortly after the 2003 fires, regrowth was occurring and it was obvious that, within the not too distant future, the track would become hard to follow. I meant to write it up for posterity but never did. Clearly those track notes might be useful to a wider audience so the notes below are made from what was recorded in 2007.
The usual caveats apply. The notes were made about 10 years ago. They may include errors and my memory might be faulty, but I have plotted them on the topo maps (Perisher Valley and Youngal) and I would be happy to use them myself. If anyone wants to use them plot them yourself before using them, because the records might have the odd position out of order. As always, use common sense. If something seems wrong it probably is. Caveat emptor.

All the GPS positions were taken using the GDA 94 datum which is the same as the topo maps. Obviously you will need to set the same datum. You probably do that already as it is the one used for the current Australian maps of this area.

We went from Thredbo down Hannels Spur to the Geehi River. Frankly, I would not come up the other way nowadays. The track notes start from beside Wilkinsons Creek
After lunch beside a lovely pool on Wilkinsons Creek we started in the early afternoon and reached Moiras Flat 4 hours later. We were not rushing and, in fact, would have been slower than a normal party because frequent stops were made to record the route. Next morning we left the Flat at 9.15 a.m. and arrived at the bottom about 1 p.m.

There was water along the way in Wilkinsons Creek, at Byatts Camp and again at Moiras Flat. There was a sign near Moiras Flat which points in the direction of the water. By memory it was a short distance, perhaps 50m, from the campsite, which was neither large nor flat nor (on our visit, anyway) particularly attractive.

In hot dry weather fill water bottles at Wilkinsons Creek and carry the extra water. The route is downhill so that would not be too onerous and better than running dry.

My recollection is that the Byatts Camp area would be a better place to camp. Someone might be able to provide that information. It seemed to have better water and there would have been quite a few possible campsites.

The following GPS positions commence near the creek in Wilkinsons Valley. By and large I have used the last 5 numbers of a GPS position. To insert them as waypoints in your GPS put the numerals “6” or “06” in front of your easterly positions and “59” in front of your northerly positions. To give you the idea, I have given the full GPS position in the first entry.

My recollection of the trip is that there are several important points where the route makes a distinct change in direction. Ten years ago there were posts or cairns at those key points. They may or may not still be there but their location was recorded and is referred to in the following text.

Easterly Northerly Comment
0612732 5966317 Wilkinsons Valley
12355 66307
12096 66244
11745 66062
11611 66046 Look or cairns and posts
11410 66074
11190 66040 post
10992 66067 post
10903 66124
10850 66209 cairn
10800 66325 important post marks a change of direction
10817 66471 important post
10843 66860 post then look for cairns
10790 67026
10716 67093 track crosses creek near Byatts Camp area
10658 67326
10641 67391
10628 67508 post
10590 67664 track crosses ridgeline, cairn
10634 67846 at this point the track makes another distinct turn and goes down the ridge to Moiras Flat.
10490 67910 the track down to Moiras Flat had some very scrubby sections. Set a GoTo and follow the GPS positions downhill.
10391 67937
10347 68056
10259 68153
10193 68228
10108 68317
10081 68366 dense
10085 68412
10085 68440 sign to water
10055 68507 Moiras Flat
Again from memory, the track becomes more obvious below Moiras Flat. Carry water.
09910 68751
09725 68768
09590 68826
09390 68872
09190 69030
09088 69428
09105 69625 the ridgeline splits and the track turns down a side ridge at this point which leads directly towards Geehi Flat.
08866 69930
08813 70426
08790 70500 track crosses a small creek. No water in it when we were there.
08532 70491
08337 70450
08114 70453
07550 70545
07445 70838 start of a steep section
07083 70887
06790 70993
06552 71272
06339 71640 Hannels Spur track sign

If you use these notes please add to them by updating the information and add extra comments of your own.
RVG

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 9:15 am
by puredingo
Well, looks like I'm done for...I haven't got a GPS with goto and the way points are way out of my league. So unless stew63 wants to tour lead me I'll just have to map and compass it and see how far I get ( but what if...just what if I make to the top the pressure of being the worlds greatest bushwalker could be crushing)...

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 1:59 pm
by Warin
puredingo wrote:Well, looks like I'm done for...I haven't got a GPS with goto and the way points are way out of my league.


Waypoints & goto ... they are simply points on your paper map... mark them out and then connects the dots. It is what was done before GPS. And what you do when the GPS fails.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 8:58 pm
by Stew63
Glast75 wrote:Oh how things have changed - the 65% in the middle was hell on earth. Stew63 hats off to you... you must be ex SAS!
The track is poorly marked and heavily overgrown. I’m afraid to say it but in my opinion the bush has taken Hannels spur back.
To complete Hannels you need to be experienced in working a GPS, love bush bashing, have good fitness and a strong will - otherwise you will be defeated and have to turn around - that would be best case scenario. Worst case injured, dehydrated, lost or worse. It is a safety hazard if you are not experienced, the achievement of making it to Byatts camp is great but their are a lot of other better walks to do.


Well done Glast75! Totally awesome effort - I'll add you to the 2017/2018 list of Hannel's Spur insane achievers! BTW I never ever said it was going to be a 'nice, medium level hike'! Let's hope some action (NPWS) is taken to bring this iconic and historic route back from the bush! 'The 65% in the middle was hell on earth' - I'll definitely endorse that description in 2018! Mental strength is a MUST - you will find out a lot about yourself on this 'hike' for sure! As said in my trip report in Feb2017 - I left part of my soul on that spur - somewhere just below Moira's Flat in the 'hell'.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 9:17 pm
by paidal_chalne_vala
It makes parts of the Northern Prom sound like a walk to the shops.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jan, 2018 8:43 am
by kanangra
Pure Dingo, you are already the worlds greatest bushwalker in my book.

K :roll:

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 1:17 pm
by puredingo
Thanks K, I knew if I hung around on the internet long enough someone would say something nice about me eventually.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 28 Jan, 2018 7:52 am
by solohiker
Great report! I’ve been curious about this one for a while.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 28 Jan, 2018 11:37 am
by neilmny
Attached are some maps made from OSM and Vicdata using QGIS.
I thought they might be of interest to the paper map brigade.

They include RVG's coordinates and a GPX track based on the current OSM data for the area.
Both RVG's coordinates and OSM compare fairly well so for laughs I made a set of 3, 1:15k scaled A4 pdf's.
These are not geo referenced pdf files.

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. FEEL FREE TO CRITICISE AS REQUIRED.

Hannels Spur Lower_15k.zip
(1.63 MiB) Downloaded 125 times

Hannels Spur Middle_15k.zip
(1.94 MiB) Downloaded 153 times

Hannels Spur Upper_15k.zip
(1.64 MiB) Downloaded 123 times

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 28 Jan, 2018 11:48 am
by Warin
Something to keep in mind.

At some time in the future there will be a fire through there.
About 6 months after that fire, could be a nice walk through there, with good views.

Same thing for any place that has had a fire I suppose.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 28 Jan, 2018 1:35 pm
by rcaffin
From Byatts Camp I think we went straight up Abbotts Peak. Good views.

Saddle ref 5970450 on Middle map, overnight campsite:
1708.jpg
1708.jpg (232.91 KiB) Viewed 9949 times

Morning after, in 2006, after the 2003 fires. I imagine the scrub has got a bit wuss since then?

Cheers
Roger

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 28 Jan, 2018 2:47 pm
by RVG
Thanks neilmny. That's a useful contribution.

As Warin says, the co-ordinates are just a tool. Plot them on a physical map or use them in a GPS. It's up to you, but on a narrow ridge with an overgrown track I know what I'd rather do.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar, 2018 6:35 pm
by rcaffin
From NPWS web site:
Applies from Wed 7 Feb 2018, 10.06am. Last reviewed: Wed 7 Mar 2018, 3.48pm.
Safety alerts: Hannels Spur track
Hannels Spur track is heavily overgrown and not recommended for walking.
Maintenance work is currently being planned for sections of the track.


Aha! On balance, a good idea.

Cheers
Roger

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Mon 12 Mar, 2018 6:29 am
by Xplora
rcaffin wrote:From NPWS web site:
Applies from Wed 7 Feb 2018, 10.06am. Last reviewed: Wed 7 Mar 2018, 3.48pm.
Safety alerts: Hannels Spur track
Hannels Spur track is heavily overgrown and not recommended for walking.
Maintenance work is currently being planned for sections of the track.


Aha! On balance, a good idea.

Cheers
Roger

This is good news and quite possibly due to the persistent efforts of some from this forum.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Mon 12 Mar, 2018 9:49 pm
by paidal_chalne_vala
If NWPS cut it , clear and tag it then I am going up it!!!!

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar, 2018 2:45 pm
by rcaffin
I believe they are planning on clearing PART of it next week. Volunteer labour.

Now, whether or not they get to the top really does not matter. What does matter is that they have overcome that idea that they can't do anything on the Western Flank because it is a wilderness area. All clearing the Hannels Spur track will do is give the NPWS a LOT more eyes on the ground looking for illegalities.

Dunno about the 'tag it' bit though - hardly necessary imho. You just keep going UP.

Cheers
Roger

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2018 2:26 pm
by kano
Go and have a crack at Townsend Spur, now that's a day out!

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2018 2:54 pm
by north-north-west
kano wrote:Go and have a crack at Townsend Spur, now that's a day out!


Never again.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2018 4:22 pm
by Stew63
Stage One starts tomorrow - 17th March until 23rd March. Top section.

Full credit to NPWS management understanding the relevance of this particular route and committing to recutting and maintaining it.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar, 2018 6:13 am
by Xplora
Stew63 wrote:Stage One starts tomorrow - 17th March until 23rd March. Top section.

Full credit to NPWS management understanding the relevance of this particular route and committing to recutting and maintaining it.

It is amazing how quickly this has gone from a 'nothing can be done' to a going concern. Half credit to NPWS and half to those volunteering which includes those who pushed hard to set up the program.

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar, 2018 8:42 pm
by rcaffin
Go and have a crack at Townsend Spur, now that's a day out!

Well, yes, it's a full day, but there several loops over it, none too difficult. Parts of the ridge are quite interesting in fact - curious geology leading to interesting vegetation. (No, that does not mean total jungle.)

Meanwhile, back at Hannels ... May the Force be with their elbows.

Cheers
Roger

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr, 2018 7:22 pm
by paidal_chalne_vala

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2018 6:30 pm
by rcaffin
To the Rangers and the volunteers: WELL DONE!
We love you.

Cheers
Roger

Re: Hannels Spur - Mt. Kosciuszko - Sat. 4th Feb. 2017 - Sol

PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2018 7:07 pm
by Tyreless
Big effort by those involved and, without wanting to take anything away from them, it seems I am very much in the minority for wanting the spur to return to its natural state.