Possible developments about Lyme disease in Aus

[findbuddha]

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pro ... 12/4675072

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Thanks for sharing. Very, very interesting.

[wayno]

advice on avoiding ticks
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... d-Off.html

another article about lyme disease
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... renzy.html

[Hallu]

A friend of mine had it, but she contracted it after a trek in Nepal, and she got diagnosed here in Melbourne after feeling unwell for too long. So maybe they could focus on seeing if there are population of feral ticks or something ? Because those definitely carry Lyme disease.

[roysta]

this is a highly contentious subject here.
Many doctors are in denial but the evidence suggests it's here big time.

[matagi]

What evidence is that?

[wayno]

tests for it dont always turn up positive even when you have it,,,

[matagi]

That's not evidence. That's just the reality of the current test and indeed, of the majority of tests used to diagnose anything.

It will be interesting to see what the new ELISA test shows. It has a much higher sensitivity and a claimed specificity of 100% (which means zero false positives)

[peregrinator]

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2013-05-12/4675072

My understanding, based on hearing the program which was broadcast this morning, is that none of the evidence about whether Lyme is occurring is yet conclusive. There were, for example, quite a few references to "Lyme-like" disease/s. Also, tests done on the one patient in Australia and in the USA reveal contradictory information. Note that the original post, quite correctly, has "possible" in the heading.

Nevertheless, I can't help wondering whether I should revisit East Gippsland and Nadgee where I had several tick bites on my last trip. If I do, I would take a lot more insecticide than last time. The problem is though that there's also conjecture about whether insecticides are effective. Does anyone have more information on this?

[DarrenM]

I mentioned this elsewhere about being bitten 50-60 times a year on the Northern beaches area, St Ives in particular. Working in and around gardens and bushland I'd frequently come home to find them attached. Also the small mites which could sometimes be attached in larger numbers (up to twenty or so) at one time but less frequent.

On the jobs that were well known tick hotspots, I used to spray areogard or the Bushmans spray pretty much all over including on my clothes and had a much lesser problem on the days I did. They were more of an annoyance at the time and hopefully no other issues will arise later.

[peregrinator]

I mentioned this elsewhere about being bitten 50-60 times a year on the Northern beaches area, St Ives in particular. Working in and around gardens and bushland I'd frequently come home to find them attached. Also the small mites which could sometimes be attached in larger numbers (up to twenty or so) at one time but less frequent.

On the jobs that were well known tick hotspots, I used to spray areogard or the Bushmans spray pretty much all over including on my clothes and had a much lesser problem on the days I did. They were more of an annoyance at the time and hopefully no other issues will arise later.

Darren, thanks for the information. By "small mites" do you mean the tick nymphs? This link has an illustration:

http://www.qm.qld.gov.au/Find+out+about/Animals+of+Queensland/Parasites/Human+parasites/Paralysis+tick

[DarrenM]

Yep, just tiny ticks I guess....about the size of a pin head and itchy for days! Under a magnifying glass they appeared identical to the larger version.

[matagi]

Paralysis tick is endemic in the Northern parts of Sydney and points further north. The "grass ticks" everyone complains about up there are paralysis tick nymphs.

[Obelix]

The Channel 7 Perth Today Tonight show recently touched on this topic again - refer to links below for those interested...

http://www.7perth.com.au/view/today-ton ... me-disease
http://www.lymedisease.org.au/

Cant decide on my least favourite pest whilst in the bush... leech, tick or mosquito.

[LandSailor]

Interesting article about lyme disease. Apparently an effective vaccination exists but the drug company lost interest due to the anti-vaccination lobby and the relatively small market.
You can get a lyme vaccination for dogs just not humans!

Why Your Dog Can Get Vaccinated Against Lyme Disease And You Can’t

.

[andrewa]

GP response......

One of my patients who spends a lot of time on Nantucket, where Lyme disease is common, had all the symptoms of Lyme disease. I organised the appropriate blood tests, but they are not routinely done through the path companies in Melb, so they end up getting sent from Melb to Qld, and the results took 6 wks. By that time, he had been back to Nantucket and tested to confirm that he didn't have it, before my results came back.

It's uncommon in Oz. it needs some lateral thought from your GP, and specific testing. I work in an upmarket suburb in Melbourne (Toorak). I've seen 1 tick on a patient, heard about 1 patient who had got Lyme disease in the US, and thought about it once in the pt described.....in 20yrs.

It's very rare. Don't expect any Australian primary care physician to think about it. In primary medical care, "common things are common, rare things are rare. Sparrows are more common than West Indian Yellow Birds. Think sparrows first, then work towards West Indian Yellow Birds..." Primary care medicine is based on probability , and knowledge, or visa versa, but they are very interlinked.

A

[Onestepmore]

My GP had no problems including serology to rule out Lyme Disease when our daughter was having some odd symptoms (which ended up being complications associated with Glandular Fever). She has certainly spent time on the North Coast of NSW, which is prime tick country

Lyme Disease Association of Australia info site
http://www.lymedisease.org.au/about-lym ... australia/

Vets in the past have had to send samples to the US for analysis to investigate dogs with neurological and rheumatoid symptoms, but the tests have now been available in Australia for a few years
There is no vaccine available for dogs against Lyme disease in Australia. Just a FYI

[Rob A]

How serious and how credible is that association/site?
"Doctor" Nicola McFadzen ND isnt far beneath the surface.
Money and books and my chiropractor cured my childs asthma with an activator kind of site?

[GPSGuided]

Another published article denying Lyme's presence in Australia.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016 ... y-edm-2016

[andrewa]

Do you recall many years ago when HIV was just starting to be diagnosed - I recall that the Romanians (I think) claimed that they had no HIV/AIDS in their country?! Then, when they started thinking about it, and testing for it, they found a significant incidence!

Of course this comment of mine is not at all helpful in the Lyme Disease discussion! It was just added for amusement.

Unlike Romania, we have an excellent health system, and there has been plenty of open minded high level debate about Lyme disease in our Health Dept.

A

[walk2wineries]

Because of the public interest in this - which pushed the inquiry in the first place - the MJA has made the review freely available. https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2016/205 ... -australia . Probably worth reading.

It is NOT just Australia refusing the results of the looney labs - these labs are unaccredited in the country in which they reside. See http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra072023. Yes, chronic Lyme exists - but ALWAYS in patients who had acute Lyme disease first.

And really - one of the GPs in the earlier article said he had "130 patients" disabled by it. Duh. We have, what, a GP per 2,000 population? even assuming a GP/5000 and cutting it down to 100/Gp that makes, um, 500,000. (the paralysis tick is limited to the Eastern states but there's ticks most places. Even so, you could have this - or heck, call it 50,000) Now the US gets 300,000 a year of ALL lyme disease and only a very small fraction of those go on to chronic disease. Even those patients do not, according to the CDC, need intravenous or prolonged therapy. See http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/treatment/ . So the Aust GPs demand to use a treatment that is not thought to be good practice by doctors expert in treating proven Lyme disease. And surely, with that number, you'd have to be seeing SOME people with acute disease, and no-one ever has. Apart from those who aquire it OS.

The "why does this work then" - um. Remember the various calls at times for publicly funded bizarre treatments? If you are told that this expensive and wonderful treatment will cure your (purely subjective) symptoms and you have to fight to get it, yes you might feel better for a while. Its called the placebo effect and keeps a lot of people very rich. Including, from time to time, those in mainstream medicine.

No-one is suggesting that the affected people don't have something wrong with them. Some of the media makes it sound like its up to the affected to prove they have this disease, but that's a bit unfair, its not just that "there's no proof" that its Lyme - there's been a lot of work done looking for Lyme - and it can't be found.

Me, I'm going with DEET!